Laois v Meath

[Syferus]

Well I think it's time to burst him, Hardy.

[Hardy]

Seriously, please tell me the nightmare is over now. Banty, of course, is at it again, trying to sell this year's debacles as progress, to add to last year's progress that saw us win three matches between league and championship. "Listen, we played six championship games this year and that's great for Meath football". Right.

Listen, we lost two championship matches this year and drew one. Against Carlow. And somehow we've turned into Tyrone, with players collapsing and face-clutching. Where did that come from? That was the last positive about Meath football we had to hang on to. Oh, I forgot. "The heart is BACK in Meath football" - S. McEnaney.  Thanks Banty.

Go on Laois.

First of all I didnt see the interview as I was on my way back from the game. However I read the interview ion HoganStand and I dont see too much nightmare material in it.

The nightmare reference is to McEnaney's term as manager.

Whats this about turning into Tyrone and face clutching? Did you not see that Laois essentially decided to foul out the field and basically took it in turns to do so to spread out the yellow cards? I am not having a go at Laois in that ....we have had plenty of sinners in our defence over the years.  I didnt see face clutching etc and spoke to about 4 or 5 different suporters afterwards and they had a lot to give out about but not that.

What has Laois fouling got to do with Meath players deciding to feign injury? We used to pride ourselves on being above that stuff. By the way, the fact that you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was even commented on in this thread by others.

As I said I didnt see an interview but he did say "The future is bright for Meath football". I dont have a problem with that. He does wear his heart on his sleeve and his management team (perhaps not himself) have developed new players this year.
To even imply that the source of our problems lie with the manager considering our poor record at underage and leinster club championships is almost delusional imo.

It would be. I've been commenting here on the state of affairs in Meath football for a fair while. I wouldn't expect you to be following my ravings, but I've gone on at length about the problems with the County Board and what is laughingly called its leadership. However, the fact that the main problem is at administrative level doesn't mean that there is no problem anywhere else.

I don't want to doing a 1 man defence of Banty but there is a limited number of Meath posters on this forum and there seems to be a definite agenda against him.

You are joking, I presume. I can't think of any poster other than myself who consistently opposes McEnaney's tenure. I should know. I get taken to task enough for it. One lad here today is accusing me of wanting the team to lose. And you think my views are extreme!

The juice is mildly critical of the regime, I think. Others who were sceptical seem to have been won over by the "progress" propaganda and the "listen, we played six championship matches this year" type of guff. Among the support in general, there seems to be a car indicator ("it's working, it isn't") approach based on the latest result.

Of course he made mistakes and I think he made bad calls in todays selections. I am not sure if he will even decide to stay. If it was me deciding I would give him another year as I do think there were positives albeit within a lot of negatives this year. With a bit of luck on the injury front and a new goalie we will have a stronger panel next year.Our biggest problem and Banty's biggest failure is thedivision 3 league position for next year.
Banty is on a tightrope of course but what is our alternative, we have gone through the managerial appointment process several times in recent years and the peoples chioices like O Rourke, McEntee etc have not been interested. More change will mean more instability and I think we have had enough change for changes sake.

That's a reasonable argument. I disagree with it. When you're going in the wrong direction, you have to change or you keep on going that way. Change at county board level is not going to happen, it seems, so we're probably only rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic anyway, but another year of "progress" under McEnaney will see us struggling to stay in Division 3. Why should I expect it to be different to the last two years?

What's his plan? I don't see anything that happened this year that was part of some McEnaney master plan. The changes in the management team were forced on him. The much-touted team building seems to have happened by accident. What team building happened in the first year of Bantyism, if team building was the strategy? The players are doing their best, but what game plan are they playing to? Could you see any consistent strategy or discernable tactical plan in the last three matches, never mind across the league and championship season? 

[Hardy]

Banty has done a lot for Meath in his short time here.

Yep. We should be a lot more competitive in Division Three.

I get the impression that Hardy secretly gets a lot of satisfaction of out of seeing Meath losing today (though I wouldn't expect he'd say so). It gives him the opportunity to have a go again.

How does this impression game go? I get the impression that Sea The Stars (secretly) beats his wife. Over to you.

Just on the year as a whole - it's clear that Meath have worked very hard.  They are in far better physical shape that any time in the past,

Are you serious? Did you see us being swatted by Dublin and out-muscled by Laois? Laois. Ross Munnelly and the lads.

and I think there's positives to be taken from the fact that they came back twice from ten points down to almost snatch victory. Maybe that's naive of me but in the past, that wouldn't have happened.

Again, are you serious? When did you start watching Meath football?

[mylestheslasher]

Banty has done a lot for Meath in his short time here.

Yep. We should be a lot more competitive in Division Three.

I get the impression that Hardy secretly gets a lot of satisfaction of out of seeing Meath losing today (though I wouldn't expect he'd say so). It gives him the opportunity to have a go again.

How does this impression game go? I get the impression that Sea The Stars (secretly) beats his wife. Over to you.

Just on the year as a whole - it's clear that Meath have worked very hard.  They are in far better physical shape that any time in the past,

Are you serious? Did you see us being swatted by Dublin and out-muscled by Laois? Laois. Ross Munnelly and the lads.

and I think there's positives to be taken from the fact that they came back twice from ten points down to almost snatch victory. Maybe that's naive of me but in the past, that wouldn't have happened.

Again, are you serious? When did you start watching Meath football?

Sea the stars, that post is so ridiculous I find myself agreeing with Hardy!

[Sea The Stars]

Hardy I don't even think you go to the games, do you?

I have seen how hard the players have worked, particularly in the face of a lot adversity much of it from within the county. Lesser players would have had rolled over after the League. They have done well to get to this stage of the championship and showed battling qualities in both games. I think - from your last line - you are comparing the current Meath team to past Meath teams. Please it's time for Meath supporters to stop doing that.

Meath are better conditioned than before - that is my point. Dublin and even Laois have further down the road in terms of this. But I am not talking about Laois/Dublin, Meath can only make themselves better. As I say, they have worked hard and have improved. Also shows how much you know when you pass a cowardly challenge by Munnelly off as strength.

[Hardy]

I haven't been to games this year, for various reasons, not that I feel any need to compete with you on attendance records. The first championship game I remember missing in my adult life was a qualifier against Antrim a couple of years ago. Why are you asking me this? Do you think your arse on a seat in Tullamore endows you with a unique perspective on the ills of Meath football?

I simply don't understand your arguments. You keep going on about how hard the players have worked. I have no problem with the players - I have ensured to give them credit in my posts here. I have a problem with the manager.

You say we shouldn't compare this Meath team to past teams. Why not? Meath teams should be in the business of winning All-Irelands. What is your criterion for success?

After we contested two All-Ireland semi-finals and won a provincial title in the four years prior to his arrival, McEnaney strutted into the county, spoofing about taking us on from there and putting all sorts of perceived stuff that was missing "back" into Meath football. Now, after two years of this replenishment and replacement, we're in Division Three, have been humiliated by Louth, nearly dumped out of the Championship by Carlow and actually dumped by Laois in a game where not one of our selected forwards scored from play.

So where's this improvement, you talk about? Here it is: In Eamonn O'Brien's two years in charge, our competitive record (League and Championship) was: won 15, drew 3, lost 9. Banty has "improved" that in his two years to 8-2-15.

Rreferring to your last sentence, I'm not even entering in the "what we know" stakes with someone who thinks relegation is progress. To clarify, I was referring to being out-muscled all over the field by Ross Munnelly and his team mates.

[agorm]

Hardy, fair enough you may be the only poster here out and out against Banty. It is just that in recent times any time I read anything about most games all that seems to be here is some statement against the manager probably from yourself. there aren't too many Meath posters and your postings probably get more prominence so I apologise to others posters if I was too general in that statement.

What I do have a problem with Hardy is your statement which you repeated again there about the players feigning injury and your attempt to pin that on Banty also. The only comment on the actual game that you made was this comparison with Tyrone and saying that the players were clutching their faces etc. essentially you have accused the Meath players of cheating and that Banty is behind it.

I have the game taped. Can you post here which players and the time in the game that this stuff was going on. I am very interested because no one around me in the stand commented on it and I spoke to 5 or 6 other supporters and it wasn't mentioned. We had plenty to give out about but This wasn't mentioned by anyone.

Regarding the rest of your comments and his lack of a plan, I am not saying he is the messiah. There are many successful managers that a few years previously would not have been perceived to have a plan. I can see progress made this year and, with better luck on the injury front providing an improved midfield and a new goalie I can see a positive direction for the team. If Banty is to be replaced what alternative are you suggesting?

[Hardy]

If you have the game taped, go and look at it before you come on here implying that I'm making stuff up. As regards pinning it on Banty, I haven't done that. However, you can't have it both ways. Meath players knew there was a Meath way of playing football that didn't include face-holding and rolling. Banty can't be responsible for anything good that happens without being responsible for the rest of what happens. We can't know and I'm not suggesting he instigated it. But what he is responsible for is ensuring that this doesn't happen again during his tenure as manager, if any. After all, he's the self-proclaimed restorer of all that is good in Meath football.

[Sea The Stars]

The reason the players have worked harder is because of the manager and his management team. I think the fightbacks against Dublin and Laois (albeit both were in vain) is one of the biggest indications of a united camp.

I would like to see Meath progress. All-Irelands are unrealistic. We must attain smaller targets before All-Irelands are a priority again. This might not always be in the form of results, but I agree results should be the biggest indication of progress. We can dream but at the end of it all, I think the biggest aim should be to try and improve ourselves.

I was very disappointed with how EOB was treated. I thought he was doing a good job. He should never have been sacked. However, what happened then, happened, and I think it set Meath back a lot. We undid a lot of good work by changing the manager when we did, and Banty was already facing the task of re-doing a lot of the good work that EOB had already done a few months previous.

The improvement that I see does not come in the form of results. We are mentally stronger under Banty, we are physically better: faster, stronger, more mobile. A lot of new players have been blooded - Gilsenan, Collins, Lenihan, Menton, Keoghan, Tobin, Gillespie, Forde, Carroll. I expect Curran and McConnell will be added to that list next year. So there have been improvements. At the end of the day, it comes down to seventy minutes of championship football. Sometimes it won't work out. We were knocked out of the Leinster championship by the All-Ireland champions and the circumstances contrived against us against Laois. Two bad results. But that's championship football. I don't think two bad results should overshadow the hard work that has been done since the Louth game.

[Hardy]

Fair enough. That's a reasonable opinion. I've already stated my opposing one. I'm pessimistic about the outcome, as I think your opinion is in the majority and I'm looking forward sadly to another wasted year and promotion from Div. 3 next year being hailed as justification for yet another year of Bantyism.

[agorm]

Where did I say you made it up? I just asked you to back up your accusations against Meath players in your attempt to slag off the manager.

Whether we agree or disagree on Bantys influence on the players actions is irrelevant if we don't agree on whether The players acted like that I the first place.

As I said you made the statements .......back them up.

[Hardy]

If you're saying I need to back them up, you're implying they don't stand up. What did you mean by saying that you talked to so many people and none of them saw it, other than to cast doubt on what I'm saying? If you're saying my statements don't stand up, you'd better have a good reason for it. You have the tape. Go and look at it.

[Dont Matter]

Wind advantage in the first half proved vital for us. We built up a lead and with the 3 quick points at the start of the second half gave us a big enough lead to hold onto. We were by far the better team on the day though, we messed up a good few goal chances and McQuillan gave Meath everything. A few yellow cards for Laois players in the first half were given for the Meath crowds reaction to strong but fair tackles. As can be seen on the RTE player the Meath players lying down holding their faces helped him award the yellows.
If we won by 10 it would have been more of a fair reflection but it's a good win for us the only problem is we got a bad draw. Dublin should win easy enough. Overall a good year for Laois.

[The Boy Wonder]

The wind advantage and the fortunate penalty in the first half were decisive factors plus Meath's loss of Keoghan. It was a bad tackle by Ross Munnelly though the intent was shoulder to shoulder.
Laois could have regretted the missed goal chances in the second half. When Meath got their goal it was heart in the mouth time. Luckily for us they didn't lump a few high balls into the square where they might have snatched an equaliser.
All in all it's a good day whenever you can come out on top against Meath in the championship. Huge task next weekend.

[agorm]

If you're saying I need to back them up, you're implying they don't stand up. What did you mean by saying that you talked to so many people and none of them saw it, other than to cast doubt on what I'm saying? If you're saying my statements don't stand up, you'd better have a good reason for it. You have the tape. Go and look at it.

Hardy,
It was you that made the statement regarding the players - not me......I said that I didnt see anything in the game to justify what you said. I simply asked you to indicate who was involved and at what stage of the game (even roughly) as to when it happened.

When people make accusations like this be it in print or in the internet be prepared to back them up. The same goes in normal life, work etc.

I looked at our recording last evening but we just focused the main highlights of the game and jumped between those. I am not sure if I could sit watching the whole game, after all I went to the game and most of yesterday afternoon and evening was taken up between travelling there and back etc. Maybe during the week I will play it all but with Olympics on I am not sure if I have the time tbh

Lastly, your statement "If you're saying my statements don't stand up, you'd better have a good reason for it" is a little surprising considering I am not the one making statements and accusations and failing to back them up.