Kerry v Tyrone

[Fuzzman]

I'd seriously question whether Tyrone would have been applauded out of Killarney had they won, or if it was raining. Still, good to see.

Sheamy I find myself yet again agreeing with you. I need to be more careful. 
I was not at the match in Killarney and so can't comment on the how bad some sections of the crowd behaved or how well other sections carried themselves by being good winners. I have heard several stories both good and bad.

I do of course have an opinion and whilst I really do believe that most of those 500 do feel sorry for Mickey and his personal turmoil of late, I really do think a lot of that good will is a lot easier delivered in victory rather than in defeat.

During the 2008 final, I was up near the roof top of the Cusask and was surrounded by Kerry fans of all ages and personalties. I was there with my brother who had never been to a big championship match before. Now I was quite worried that we would lose that day so I wasn't my normal jovial self but I could strongly detect the bitterness and anti-Tyrone feeling the whole way during the match. Any time I would try to take their side or engage in pleasantaries they were having none of it.
So then when they looked like they could go on to win the game the got a lot more vocal and almost in my face with the attitude we have ye now. Then when Tyrone came strong in the final 10 mins, most of them, NOT ALL, got up and left. Nobody shook our hands and said well done lads. NOBODY.

In 2003 I was sitting near a lot of Armagh fans and the tension was unbearable. There had been talk before it about need for segregation. At the end nearly every Armagh fan shook my hand. Some hugged me and said enjoy it whilst you can.

My point is Kerry DO NOT like losing. They are sore sore losers. They don't mind you winning the odd one but they want to be high kings in their kingdom. They don't like it when you don't bow down and say they are the best and play the purist of football.

So whilst I admire this gesture of 500 fans staying behind to bid Tyrone and Mickey a warm goodbye, could it be with a hint of at last we have beaten ye and because so we can now show ye how nice and welcoming we are.
In my eyes it takes a lot more balls and honesty, to swallow your pride, your anger, your dismay, the total emptiness feeling of losing to turn around to your winning fan and say well done. You beat us fair and square and I hope you enjoy your day in the sun as we'll be back to get it back of ye next year.

A mate of mine is a 50+year old Dub. Married to a Kerry woman for a long time and they go down to Kerry quite often. He said every year they have great craic talking football.
He said he went down last Christmas and the when the lads in the pub saw him they'd hardly talk to him at all. Very dry and taking the loss to the Dubs very badly

In my eyes it was a bit of an empty & late gesture for Kerry fans to be giving Mickey and Co such a great send off home. I'm probably being VERY cynical but if Dublin (or Donegal) beat Kerry this year I wonder will we hear the usual whinging and crying about how how they are spoiling the beautiful game and new rules need to be taken in to counteract this.

From what I know most of the Kerry people honestly have a healthy respect for Mickey Harte and probably wish to express their sorrow for him. I just wonder how many such fans congratulated Mickey in 2008.

Sorry for being so cynical folks but I am just sharing my honest opinion

Re McGuigan, in one way its nice to get the honest(I think) opinion of a current player from matches he's just played in (or almost played in) but on the other hand, I always think that maybe Brian is maybe not the most shrewd of people and can sometimes say things that he might (or should) regret later. A bit like like his dad maybe sometimes.

[haranguerer]

Also, by being gracious winners, they've managed to deflect attention from their undoubted cynicism

[Orchardman]

I'd seriously question whether Tyrone would have been applauded out of Killarney had they won, or if it was raining. Still, good to see.

Sheamy I find myself yet again agreeing with you. I need to be more careful. 
I was not at the match in Killarney and so can't comment on the how bad some sections of the crowd behaved or how well other sections carried themselves by being good winners. I have heard several stories both good and bad.

I do of course have an opinion and whilst I really do believe that most of those 500 do feel sorry for Mickey and his personal turmoil of late, I really do think a lot of that good will is a lot easier delivered in victory rather than in defeat.

During the 2008 final, I was up near the roof top of the Cusask and was surrounded by Kerry fans of all ages and personalties. I was there with my brother who had never been to a big championship match before. Now I was quite worried that we would lose that day so I wasn't my normal jovial self but I could strongly detect the bitterness and anti-Tyrone feeling the whole way during the match. Any time I would try to take their side or engage in pleasantaries they were having none of it.
So then when they looked like they could go on to win the game the got a lot more vocal and almost in my face with the attitude we have ye now. Then when Tyrone came strong in the final 10 mins, most of them, NOT ALL, got up and left. Nobody shook our hands and said well done lads. NOBODY.

In 2003 I was sitting near a lot of Armagh fans and the tension was unbearable. There had been talk before it about need for segregation. At the end nearly every Armagh fan shook my hand. Some hugged me and said enjoy it whilst you can.

My point is Kerry DO NOT like losing. They are sore sore losers. They don't mind you winning the odd one but they want to be high kings in their kingdom. They don't like it when you don't bow down and say they are the best and play the purist of football.

So whilst I admire this gesture of 500 fans staying behind to bid Tyrone and Mickey a warm goodbye, could it be with a hint of at last we have beaten ye and because so we can now show ye how nice and welcoming we are.
In my eyes it takes a lot more balls and honesty, to swallow your pride, your anger, your dismay, the total emptiness feeling of losing to turn around to your winning fan and say well done. You beat us fair and square and I hope you enjoy your day in the sun as we'll be back to get it back of ye next year.

A mate of mine is a 50+year old Dub. Married to a Kerry woman for a long time and they go down to Kerry quite often. He said every year they have great craic talking football.
He said he went down last Christmas and the when the lads in the pub saw him they'd hardly talk to him at all. Very dry and taking the loss to the Dubs very badly

In my eyes it was a bit of an empty & late gesture for Kerry fans to be giving Mickey and Co such a great send off home. I'm probably being VERY cynical but if Dublin (or Donegal) beat Kerry this year I wonder will we hear the usual whinging and crying about how how they are spoiling the beautiful game and new rules need to be taken in to counteract this.

From what I know most of the Kerry people honestly have a healthy respect for Mickey Harte and probably wish to express their sorrow for him. I just wonder how many such fans congratulated Mickey in 2008.

Sorry for being so cynical folks but I am just sharing my honest opinion

Re McGuigan, in one way its nice to get the honest(I think) opinion of a current player from matches he's just played in (or almost played in) but on the other hand, I always think that maybe Brian is maybe not the most shrewd of people and can sometimes say things that he might (or should) regret later. A bit like like his dad maybe sometimes.

fuzzman, u hit the nail on the head. It was getting a bit cringy listening to everyone talking bout the bum chumy atmosphere after the game ( not to be a horrible cynic by the way, it's still nice to see)

[Orchardman]

he did boy...basically said O'Sullivan and Gooch were hateful hoors, and would ignore ye on allstar trips, but the O'Se's were good craic and Jack O'Connor was a good lad too. That's why he gave O'Sullivan a wee belt I'd imagine, hateful hoor he is, and Brian reckons everyone in Derrytresk will back him on that! He says O'Sullivan was laughing at him when he was walking off but it was totally different in 2003 when he lay down v down. He didn't meant to get Greg McCartan sent off. He was just...ummm...well he didn't mean to. I think sometimes it would be best if we didn't hear what formerly great players had to say. Kinda ruins the image

was reading it the day myself, actually good to hear a man speak out sometimes and say what he feels. Mcguigan is right, he deserved to get sent off for the pure stupidity of doing it, right in front of the ref, i'd be raging if he was my team mate. Harsh and all it was, you could see the venom in brian's face as he went crashing into the back of declan, he really must hate him.

He did say how nice jack o connor and galvin were when he hurt his eye, they sent him letters and signed kerry jerseys, so all good lads.

[Seamus]

I'd seriously question whether Tyrone would have been applauded out of Killarney had they won, or if it was raining. Still, good to see.

Sheamy I find myself yet again agreeing with you. I need to be more careful. 
I was not at the match in Killarney and so can't comment on the how bad some sections of the crowd behaved or how well other sections carried themselves by being good winners. I have heard several stories both good and bad.

I do of course have an opinion and whilst I really do believe that most of those 500 do feel sorry for Mickey and his personal turmoil of late, I really do think a lot of that good will is a lot easier delivered in victory rather than in defeat.

During the 2008 final, I was up near the roof top of the Cusask and was surrounded by Kerry fans of all ages and personalties. I was there with my brother who had never been to a big championship match before. Now I was quite worried that we would lose that day so I wasn't my normal jovial self but I could strongly detect the bitterness and anti-Tyrone feeling the whole way during the match. Any time I would try to take their side or engage in pleasantaries they were having none of it.
So then when they looked like they could go on to win the game the got a lot more vocal and almost in my face with the attitude we have ye now. Then when Tyrone came strong in the final 10 mins, most of them, NOT ALL, got up and left. Nobody shook our hands and said well done lads. NOBODY.

In 2003 I was sitting near a lot of Armagh fans and the tension was unbearable. There had been talk before it about need for segregation. At the end nearly every Armagh fan shook my hand. Some hugged me and said enjoy it whilst you can.

My point is Kerry DO NOT like losing. They are sore sore losers. They don't mind you winning the odd one but they want to be high kings in their kingdom. They don't like it when you don't bow down and say they are the best and play the purist of football.

So whilst I admire this gesture of 500 fans staying behind to bid Tyrone and Mickey a warm goodbye, could it be with a hint of at last we have beaten ye and because so we can now show ye how nice and welcoming we are.
In my eyes it takes a lot more balls and honesty, to swallow your pride, your anger, your dismay, the total emptiness feeling of losing to turn around to your winning fan and say well done. You beat us fair and square and I hope you enjoy your day in the sun as we'll be back to get it back of ye next year.

A mate of mine is a 50+year old Dub. Married to a Kerry woman for a long time and they go down to Kerry quite often. He said every year they have great craic talking football.
He said he went down last Christmas and the when the lads in the pub saw him they'd hardly talk to him at all. Very dry and taking the loss to the Dubs very badly

In my eyes it was a bit of an empty & late gesture for Kerry fans to be giving Mickey and Co such a great send off home. I'm probably being VERY cynical but if Dublin (or Donegal) beat Kerry this year I wonder will we hear the usual whinging and crying about how how they are spoiling the beautiful game and new rules need to be taken in to counteract this.

From what I know most of the Kerry people honestly have a healthy respect for Mickey Harte and probably wish to express their sorrow for him. I just wonder how many such fans congratulated Mickey in 2008.

Sorry for being so cynical folks but I am just sharing my honest opinion

Re McGuigan, in one way its nice to get the honest(I think) opinion of a current player from matches he's just played in (or almost played in) but on the other hand, I always think that maybe Brian is maybe not the most shrewd of people and can sometimes say things that he might (or should) regret later. A bit like like his dad maybe sometimes.

What a load of rubbish, possibly the most disgraceful and misleading post I have ever read on any subject. The complete opposite to all that shiite is way closer to the mark. Of course all the Kerry haters will agree with him in order to feed their agenda and insecurities.

[Rossfan]

This game ended last Saturday - now we're at page 53 
Time to consign it to history bies

[Hardy]

The shorter version of Fuzzman's post: "I don't recognise respect, sportsmanship and uncommon decency when I see it."

[Fuzzman]

If anyone from Ulster can explain the intense rivalry between Armagh & Tyrone to those outside the province. Yet in 2003 I received so much recognition from Armagh fans. I never received anything similar from Kerry fans in the past 9 years. All they seem to say is we have spoiled their lovely game. Is that sportmanship? If Tyrone had won last Sat would Kerry fans have gave us such a send off back home?

[Wildweasel74]

Armagh and Tyrone is nothing compared to Derry, Tyrone rivalry, back in 1995 still stands out has the most nastiest atmosphere i ever felt at a game!

[ONeill]

The common denominator is Tyrone. We're a shower of savage bastards. Mid-Tyrone especially. Something to do with the foot of the Sperrins.

[ONeill]

Off the fence: Crying foul
Posted by EWAN MACKENNA
Thursday 26 July 2012


On a train from Killarney to Dublin last Saturday evening, a group of Tyrone fans stood at the bar and tried to drown their sorrows only to find they're excellent swimmers.

Those from Kerry steered clear of it though, instead basking in the sober reality of what they'd just achieved. But they had one gripe about what had happened during the day's qualifier. "We were lucky that everyone came through without injuries," one man said. "They were up to their same old tricks. They were filthy."

Of course fans are always going to be biased, but this was a particularly odd take on the game. Because, while populism suggests the biggest threat and most damning indictment of modern football is the massed defence, the actual problem with the game had just been demonstrated by Kerry across 30 second-half minutes riddled with systematic and cynical fouls. 

We aren't saying that others teams don't do it too. Cork and Donegal in particular are no angels and there's a case to be made for the fact that the better and more clever you are at fouling, the further you will go. But Kerry gave the worst example of a tactic and a ploy that is ruining the game during that second half with Tyrone. Consider the following list of examples from the 40th minute onwards and consider what Tyrone had to endure. 

On 40 minutes, after Declan O'Sullivan kicked his third point in a fantastic attacking display, a short kickout was taken to Conor Gormley but Kieran Donaghy's attempt at a tackle was awkward, and Paul Galvin followed it up by hauling the centre-back to the ground and then hung onto him.

On 45 minutes, Donaghy's goal stretched the lead to five and in a commanding position, Kerry clearly decided to slow the game still further. From the resulting kickout, Declan O'Sullivan lazily wrapped his arms around Joe McMahon and then stayed in front of him for the free. 

On 48 minutes, after James O'Donoghue pointed and Darran O'Sullivan came on, the new arrival pulled Colm Cavanagh down with another tackle that was lazy from another quick kickout. It was obvious O'Sullivan had no intention of turning over the ball and once the free was awarded, he again obstructed the kicker. 

On 52 minutes, following a turnover, Joe McMahon was taken down by Darran O'Sullivan who stood in front of him for a full 11 seconds as he tried to take the free. Finally, McMahon did get to play a short pass to Mark Donnelly but Galvin, Anthony Maher and Shane Enright combined to bundle him over well outside the 45 and well outside shooting distance. From that free, as Tyrone looked for the open man in scoring range, Declan O'Sullivan was hanging out of Stephen O'Neill but the incident went unpunished.

On 54 minutes, Ryan McMenamin turned over a ball in defence and looked to break only to have his legs clipped by Colm Cooper while Donaghy was in quickly to slow play further and laughed in the faces of opposition player as he succeeded.

On 56 minutes, Brian McGuigan finally had enough. From a free out of defence he was taken down high and cynically by Declan O'Sullivan. The Kerry player complained to the referee about his arm, was hit from behind, went down easily and a minute and a red card later he was up laughing at Owen Mulligan. It was stupid from McGuigan and deserving of a red but Tyrone had finally been fouled to breaking point.

On 59 minutes, Enright dragged down Donnelly after a quick free for a square ball. In the next phase of play Maher did the same to Cavanagh. In the next phase of play Aidan O'Mahony did the same to Mulligan. There were no bookings and the ball was still short of the 45. Moments later as Stephen O'Neill went to take a lineball, the ball was kicked away by a Kerry substitute. Nothing happened but when Ryan McMenamin did the same moments later, the ball was moved forward. 

On 63 minutes, there was more of the same after Cooper's point as, from a short kickout, Maher fouled, Galvin took off with the ball which led to him being shoved to the ground by Gormley.

On 68 minutes, after Kieran O'Leary's wide, Cavanagh from a short kickout was taken down, and Patrick Curtin's lunge was far more dangerous than that of McGuigan, although the player hit didn't stay down on this occasion.

It's a long and damning list yet doesn't make headlines like more nasty incidents such as Gormley stuffing the ball into the gut of Tomás Ó Sé after the goal or Joe McMahon going for Galvin right at the end. But ask yourself this, which is more disruptive to the actual game? And besides, the number one cause of violent acts on a football pitch is frustration and Tyrone had plenty of reasons to get frustrated given how they were being handled by the opposition and referee David Coldrick.

Kerry were exceptional for long spells, no one is denying that, indeed their tackling when the opposition were within scoring range was exemplary. It was hard and fair and intense and there was never the lazy option of giving away a kickable free. But out of that scoring zone they clearly had a plan and by breaking up the play through systematic fouling and by stalling the free taker it allowed them to kill momentum and get players back and set a defensive formation which was highly effective.

And there was no deterrent. Each of those fouls listed above was worthy of a yellow card and forget talk of common sense refereeing meaning you can't send off three or four players when the fouls aren't violent. The only way to stop what was happening was to punish professional fouling in the correct way and one sending off may have stopped what was happening and changed the face of the game. But when that didn't happen Kerry were happy to continue on. And there's the problem for football, the lack of team fouls which could result in a punishment on the scoreboard or in terms of numbers on the pitch through a sin bin.

A few weeks back after watching his own Donegal, Martin McHugh suggested on The Sunday Game that rules needed to be changed to stop teams defending in numbers. It is odd as why should you change the rules for something as subjective as entertaining football? But as the Football Review Committee gets ready to look at the way the game is played, the worry is they'll listen to those sorts of comments and address those issues, all the while ignoring the real issue here. But if they look back at the second half in Killarney they'll see exactly what they have to do when it comes to tinkering with the game.

[Wildweasel74]

still looked like Brian grapped onto O`Sullivan arm and fell to the ground to me, though he did come in high, suppose that the neutral point of view though

[BennyCake]

We all know how the Kerry fans and players celebrated after the Tyrone match, having lost to them the 3 previous times. But Kerry celebrated much the same as I recall, in 2006 when they beat Armagh. And Armagh only beat Kerry once, in 2002. I really do think Kerry don't like anyone getting one over on them.

[Wildweasel74]

Cork must be everyone favourite team, big, sour, didn't celebrate winning the national league in previous years, hope everybody happy with them as celebrations out the window in future so not to offend so easily offended visiting supporters!!

[From the Bunker]

We all know how the Kerry fans and players celebrated after the Tyrone match, having lost to them the 3 previous times. But Kerry celebrated much the same as I recall, in 2006 when they beat Armagh. And Armagh only beat Kerry once, in 2002. I really do think Kerry don't like anyone getting one over on them.

Have Kerry proven that winning AI's is one thing, But settling old scores holds a a certain stature? I suppose when you come from a county that has won alot, you can be more remembered for what you did not win. Especially when it is to a so called untraditional force that has got the upper hand on you. This in turn can be seen as embarrassing, as in it would not have happened to other great Kerry teams. Probably the biggest nightmare await Kerry should they meet Cork in the AI final this year!