Submit Your Alternative Championship Structure

[catchandkick]

Would like to start a thread discussing alternatives to the current structure of the All Ireland Senior Football Championship.

The championship as it stands has the momentum of a freight train. A stationary freight train, that is.

So many anomalies

- Gaps of 3-5 weeks between matches. What other sport would allow such gaps between matches at the 'business end ' of the season?
- A pre- season that lasts much longer than the competitive season. I would argue that the months of January- May are all pre-season as the McKenna/O'Byrne Cup etc and the League are all preparation gearing towards championship.  The majority of counties are out by August so it's effectively a two month competitive season
- Provincial structure giving certain counties an unfair advantage. Certain provinces competitive - Ulster, Leinster , others less so - Munster, Connacht . Too many mismatches
- Club game on hold during summer months because of unpredictability of fixtures
- Difficulty in marketing games as a result of so little action to market.

My proposal

Upper Tier

6 groups of 4 from the top 24 teams.

Each team to play other teams from group on a home and away basis. Six games for each team therefore.

Lower Tier

Two groups of four. Play each other twice on a home and away basis as above

Qualification

Top team in each of the six groups in the Upper tier qualifies automatically for quarter finals. Second team in each group in Upper tier, along with top team in each group in the Lower Tier qualifies to play two rounds of play-off matches to take up two remaining places in quarter finals. Quarter finals then proceed per current All Ireland series to final.

Two worst teams in the Upper Tier on league points get relegated and replaced by the top team in each group in the Lower Tier.

Start the championship earlier - mid April. Set in stone six dates for the group matches, say every two weekends from the second weekend in April to complete around the end of June.

Play the provincial championships as stand alone competitions in March and April.

Scrap the league and O'Byrne/McKenna Cups etc. and the whole notion of a five month pre-season lead in. If Premier league teams can have a three week pre-season to get ready why do inter county teams need a five month pre-season?

The system guarantees six championship games and at least three home championship games for each county but does away with the provincial structure within the championship. Don't think you can turn the championship into a modern competition along the lines of the Heineken Cup while still retaining the provincial championship.

Obviously there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of something as radical as this going through Congress but the time has come to give the fans and players what they want - more competitive matches in the All Ireland championship!

Is that too much to ask?

[bannside]

Sorry Catch&Kick, but this one has absolutely no chance of making it. Far too much commonsense about what you are promoting!

That would mean the league games would be meaningful after all - hey, they might even have a championship edge to them. Would ultimately lead to bigger crowds too. And a shorter, more condensed inter county season which would allow club fixtures to run on schedule.

Cant really think of an obvious downside and for that reason I think it is doomed to failure.

[catchandkick]

Ah yeah i know it would never come to pass through Congress. Congress is generally a good thing and the GAA is a progressive organisation and has run itself extremely well over the years.

From a fixtures point of view and from a promotion of its main competition point of view , however, the GAA is a disaster.

The lack of a set calendar in the All Ireland trickles down to club level and pushes club players' games out till the winter months.

I know it wouldn't have a hope at Congress, but I also wonder how much longer are we going to have to live with an antiquated championship which is 90% preparation and pre-season and about 10% white knuckle heat of championship.

As a Kerryman, I grow weary of the same nonsense year after year.

Kerry plays first round game v Tipp/Clare/Waterford. Kerry are complacent and struggle to get up for game but have more than enough to win. Opposition are up for it and close the gap a little but aren't good enough. Same kind of game will be taking place in 2112 under the current structure.

Kerry then play Cork. Kind of a phony war going on as, you could argue, the loser is better off in the backdoor as they will get a run of two or three qualifier games before August bank holiday quarter final weekend while the winner may be without competitive action for four or five weeks and get caught cold. In 2010 all four provincial winners lost at the quarter final stage.

Just feel the opportunity is there to create a championship we're all talking about instead of one that drifts along at a snails pace. The only football on Sunday is Mayo v Leitrim, a one sided victory for Mayo.

As I pointed out, start the championship earlier. Players are as fit in February now as they are in July.

How much longer will we have to tolerate this incredibly drawn out competition ?

[FairyWaterDuke]

No league or provincial groups. Gone.

Two Tiers/Four groups in each/Play H and A against 3 teams/with New York and London added to groups in the bottom tier.

Top two qualify for last 16 with a two random matches being held in the States, New York/Boston/Polo Grounds

QF

SF

F at HQ

And there you have a winner quite literally.

[bannside]

33 counties.

3x11 county competitions running concurrently. Call it the Gold (Sam Maguire) Silver and Bronze cups.

Roll the entire league and championship into one large competition.

Same format for each competition.
Collective training Jan/February/March - (play those Mc Kenna/O byrne comps as provincial c`ships if necessary)
Competition commences start of April - and runs through its minimum/maximum 10-12 game schedule before the end of August - 22 weeks.

Each team has 5 home and 5 away games.
Top 4 in each competition go into prestigeous semi-finals. (the championship as we know it)
Promotion/relegation between competitions. Two up/two down will keep every game meaningful.

Get sponsors for each competition, and market the series extensively.
Pay a pool of 25 full time referees.
Use mid-week (floodlit) nights for matches, as well as Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.
Bespoke Television programme/coverage. Compete with soccer and rugby for premium dates to increase exposure.

Expect far greater gate revenues. Financially incentive successful counties with sliding scale remuneration, depending on final position.

Other upsides.
Club leagues to be finished by end August. Club Championships, with county players returned to clubs, run off September/first two weeks October.
Completely closed season for all  (except club champions) from mid October to end December.

[neilthemac]

Abolish pre season competitions

Change the leagues to smaller groups.
Say 4 divisions of 5 teams and top two divisons with 6 teams. That gives every county either 4 or 5 league games. No need for league finals, just promotion and relegation.
Have a break for club games.

Keep the provincial championships - play them off over 4/5 weeks. No need to draw them out so much
Provincial winners and runners up are seeded into a championship draw.
Have a break for club games

8 groups of four. Three games per team.
Provincial winners and runners up are seeded along with co-efficients used from your league division and results into the groups
each team gets at least one home game, and one away game
top two go through to last sixteen.
take a break for club games

then play off last 16 and quarters
take a break

semi final and final within 2 weeks of each other

********************
Gives EVERY county games
no tiered competition
league form and placing is rewarded
every county gets at least one home game
defined breaks for club games
historical provincial championships are retained (the rivalry between neighbouring Connacht counties is what makes the championship if you ask me!)

[catchandkick]

Think the GAA will have to at some point abandon the provincial championships as part of the championship and play the championship as a 32 county competition and play it in some kind of Champions League/Heineken Cup format - a few variations have been thrown out above.

As long as you keep provincial championships as part of the championship, you are perpetuating the inconsistencies of the current and previous format of championship, where the likes of Kerry and Cork in Munster and Galway and Mayo in Connacht generally have an easier path to the All Ireland.

Keep the provincial championships as stand alone competitions.

The break will have to be made at some point from provincial championships.

[catchandkick]

33 counties.

3x11 county competitions running concurrently. Call it the Gold (Sam Maguire) Silver and Bronze cups.

Think counties would kick up stink if they didn't have the opportunity to win the All Ireland. I think they probably should be too. In hurling you have the Liam McCarthy, Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard but that is because the gulf in standards is huge. Kilkenny playing Donegal in hurling would be a ridiculous fixture

Football does not have the same massive gulf in standards.

Think of some games from recent years

Sligo should have beaten Kerry in 2009
Fermanagh beat Armagh and Cork in 2004
Louth drew with Tyrone in 2006, could well have won.
Wicklow beat Down in 2009, Down All Ireland finalists 2010

[catchandkick]

No league or provincial groups. Gone.

Two Tiers/Four groups in each/Play H and A against 3 teams/with New York and London added to groups in the bottom tier.

Top two qualify for last 16 with a two random matches being held in the States, New York/Boston/Polo Grounds

QF

SF

F at HQ

And there you have a winner quite literally.

Yeah you're thinking along the same lines as me. Not sure which is better

[Maguire01]

I think there's huge merit in having a home and an away game against each team. I also think it's important that any alternative retains the ability for all counties to win the All Ireland.

[Captain Obvious]

As a Kerryman, I grow weary of the same nonsense year after year.

Another Kerryman bored of the same nonsense of winning?

[Cosmo Kramer]

Provincial championships aren't going to be done away with. Journalists and supporters can come up with all the ideas they want - it's just not going to happen. At any given time, for all bar the top half dozen or so teams at that time, winning a provincial title or even getting to a final is all they can realistically hope for. And doing so is a big deal for a lot of counties.

What would be the equivalent of Louth, Antrim or Clare getting to a final be under these new systems? Coming third in Tier 2 Subsection Group C or some shyte like that - completely meaningless. Yet under the current system they all have reached provincial finals in recent years and it's that hope that keeps them going. Without that, you'll just have 10 or so teams battling for Sam and the rest would just fall further behind. Provincial championships give everyone some hope at the start of a season and the chance of a run that will be talked about in the county for the next half century e.g. Leitrim 1994.

That's not to say that the current system is perfect, it obviously isn't. Its just that any change to the setup will have to keep the provincials alive. They need to be condensed though. There's no need for the Connacht championship to have started almost two months ago, yet the favourites to win it haven't kicked a ball yet. That's insane. The provincials should be over by the end of June. Then turn the All Ireland Series into the main event.

Put the quarter finalists into two groups of 4 with top two from each group into the semis or else have two leg quarter and semi-final ties. In other words more matches between the best teams, but not at the expense of the provincial championships. That way more people get what they want, better product for viewers and sponsors, more revenue generating big games, more emphasis on the latter end of the championships. But at the same time you still have the provincials to give everyone something to play for and keep the game alive in counties where All Ireland success is not a realistic goal.

[magpie seanie]

The one I saw recently that I liked the best was where you've an open draw of all 32 teams which play down to 8 (or is it 4). The provincial championships run around the same time and you have to get to the final (or win) the province to get back in. Now obviously there would be tweaks etc needed as you'd likely have teams winning their province that are still in the All-Ireland series but I think the basis is there for a big improvement. It would keep the provincial championships and possibly increase their significance.

[From the Bunker]

33 counties.

3x11 county competitions running concurrently. Call it the Gold (Sam Maguire) Silver and Bronze cups.

Think counties would kick up stink if they didn't have the opportunity to win the All Ireland. I think they probably should be too. In hurling you have the Liam McCarthy, Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard but that is because the gulf in standards is huge. Kilkenny playing Donegal in hurling would be a ridiculous fixture

Football does not have the same massive gulf in standards.

Think of some games from recent years

Sligo should have beaten Kerry in 2009
Fermanagh beat Armagh and Cork in 2004
Louth drew with Tyrone in 2006, could well have won.
Wicklow beat Down in 2009, Down All Ireland finalists 2010

Are you kidding me?

Ask Roscommon, Leitrim, Carlow, Louth, Waterford, Offaly

[Captain Obvious]

Dublin are currently the 5th or 6th best in hurling, Mayo the 5th or 6th best in football.  Of course football does not have the same massive gulf in standards.