Easter Lily & Rising Commemorations

[Ulick]

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I did? Care to explain it back to me, because I'm not sure what your getting at.

[Nally Stand]

Fine. another ghost summoned forth to stifle us in the present.

How does any one expect to convince many of those within the north to join with a crack pot society down south if we don't address the malaise within. I accept a day of swearing allegiance to the state and to uphold its laws and values doesn't change things overnight. But it might help give people a sense of affiliation.

Otherwise what do you suggest to address what I highlighted on my last page.

What I would suggest is a widespread participation in Easter Commemorations each year to manifest a sense of patriotism and pride. As for referring to a ghost summoned forth in response to ulicks point, it almost makes it see like partition is in the past. It ain't no ghost yet and needs no summoning.

You continue to ignore the sentiment that has appeared throughout this thread.

You call for 'widespread participation' but refuse to even acknowledge some of the reasons, mentioned here, why people stay away.

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I know the sentiment you refer to only too well: The blinding hypocricy of Old IRA=Good, P IRA=bad, and the idea that if nobody but SF bothers with commemorating 1916, then SF are therefor hijacking it 

[Evil Genius]

Therefore anyone who wants full Irish Republic rights should go and live there

I'll quote you on that "come the time", if you know what I mean.

By all means do.

For so long as "the times comes" solely as a result of a democratic process (Referendum etc), then no Unionist may have reasonable cause for complaint - just like no Nationalist in NI today has reasonable cause to complain about Partition...

If you want the full rights of a British citizen after Ireland is united then you can go and live in Britain.

Indeed.

Which neatly reflects the problem which Nationalists have in persuading Unionists as to the merits of a United Ireland. That is, if ever a UI should happen, then Unionism will cease to exist as a political movement in Ireland and with it the British identity of Unionists.

No doubt at today's Easter Commemorations, instead of banging on about "armed struggle" etc as in former times, the speakers will emphasise how a UI need hold "no fears for Unionists" and how we will all be "accommodated", if only we "see reason" etc

But what they seem entirely unable to comprehend is that whether we get raped or we get seduced, we still end up getting screwed.

Therefore our answer to our Republican suitors remains: "Go f**k yourselves" 

[Evil Genius]

Therefore anyone who wants full Irish Republic rights should go and live there, where they would also assume the full duties and responsibilities of that State, including a share of the State's debts...

Anyone using that style of argument (including the reverse, e.g. "Go back to Britain if you love being British...") outside of a school playground deserves to be laughed at. Or Jim Wells.

Where did I say anything about going "back"?

Perhaps I might have replaced "should" with "may" (to avoid any implication of coercion). Nonetheless my essential point remains, that is, with everyone in NI enjoying full and equal rights etc, anyone* for whom that is not enough, and/or who prefers the attractions of another** jurisdiction, must be entirely free to pursue those attractions as they wish.

Which is just another way of reflecting how the Good Friday Agreement has for the foreseeable future, effectively "settled" the constitutional situation in Ireland around two friendly, neighbouring but separate jurisdictions.

So that it is those who still seek to deny this essential truth who belong in the school playground, not those who recognise and embrace it.


* - And by "anyone", I mean just that - whether Nationalist or Unionist, indigenous or immigrant etc;
** - And by "another", I mean any that will have them (effectively EU, maybe some others?), not just ROI.

[Rossfan]

if ever a UI should happen, then Unionism will cease to exist as a political movement in Ireland and with it the British identity of Unionists.

How do you figure that out?
Surely there will be a loose link/right to British Citizenship for any one who wants it from the Six County area?

[Eamonnca1]

I can't wait to the day when I'm whipping them in the fields!

[Oraisteach]

Ah, yes, EG. Easter.  The resurrection . . . of that ageold Unionist unbending faith in democracy after a century of first ignoring it and subsequently denying it. 

[stew]

Ah, yes, EG. Easter.  The resurrection . . . of that age old Unionist unbending faith in democracy after a century of first ignoring it and subsequently denying it.

The Unionists love democracy when it suits them, I seem to recall a horrible Unionist bitch going on about a great day for democracy when she thought SF had fallen in Fermanagh/ South tyrone, only to find out later the shinners won by eight votes give or take. Brilliant stuff altogether.

Where was the British sense of democracy in the Falklands war? India, Ireland, the list goes on and on.

eg is an excellent example of the puffed up brit, full of self importance and  indulgence, the empire is dead eg, get over it!

[bennydorano]

Ah, yes, EG. Easter.  The resurrection . . . of that ageold Unionist unbending faith in democracy after a century of first ignoring it and subsequently denying it.

Goalpost moving is a fundamental right of Unionism.  When the day comes and NI is looking like it might one day join wish to join with ROI, there'll be a clamour for further reduced partition - North East Ireland, (who will still undoubtedly be like watching Brazil - in a football sense).

[Denn Forever]

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I did? Care to explain it back to me, because I'm not sure what your getting at.

I assume it is from the 1st part of Emmet's quote.  Could be wrong though.

Let them and me rest in obscurity and peace, and my tomb remain uninscribed, and my memory in oblivion.....

[theticklemister]

 

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I did? Care to explain it back to me, because I'm not sure what your getting at.

I assume it is from the 1st part of Emmet's quote.  Could be wrong though.

Let them and me rest in obscurity and peace, and my tomb remain uninscribed, and my memory in oblivion.....

But it is important to finish the rest........... Until my nation takes its place amongst the nations of the earth.

What Emmett states is that 'remember me properly when my country has gained its independence and is a soverign nation.' The fella above is trying to pick holes with NGA

[muppet]

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I did? Care to explain it back to me, because I'm not sure what your getting at.

Emmet:

Let them and me rest in obscurity and peace, and my tomb remain uninscribed, and my memory in oblivion, until other times and other men can do justice to my character. When my country takes her place among the nations of the earth, then and not till then, let my epitaph be written.

Ulick:

The time is not right for celebrating or showing "allegiance to the state" when a million and a half people don't have the full rights of citizenship to "the state".

You clearly believe that Emmet's condition for honoring his name has not been met. Thus his quote calls for his tomb and memory,  and all the others he refers to, to 'remain unsubscribed'. This is the opposite to what the National Graves Association does and what the Easter Lily pays for.

[muppet]

Fine. another ghost summoned forth to stifle us in the present.

How does any one expect to convince many of those within the north to join with a crack pot society down south if we don't address the malaise within. I accept a day of swearing allegiance to the state and to uphold its laws and values doesn't change things overnight. But it might help give people a sense of affiliation.

Otherwise what do you suggest to address what I highlighted on my last page.

What I would suggest is a widespread participation in Easter Commemorations each year to manifest a sense of patriotism and pride. As for referring to a ghost summoned forth in response to ulicks point, it almost makes it see like partition is in the past. It ain't no ghost yet and needs no summoning.

You continue to ignore the sentiment that has appeared throughout this thread.

You call for 'widespread participation' but refuse to even acknowledge some of the reasons, mentioned here, why people stay away.

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I know the sentiment you refer to only too well: The blinding hypocricy of Old IRA=Good, P IRA=bad, and the idea that if nobody but SF bothers with commemorating 1916, then SF are therefor hijacking it 

It is blinding hypocrisy only to you. Respect and recognition was afforded the rebels only in hindsight, after most of them had lost their lives for the cause. You demand the same treatment for people who only took lives.

[Nally Stand]

Fine. another ghost summoned forth to stifle us in the present.

How does any one expect to convince many of those within the north to join with a crack pot society down south if we don't address the malaise within. I accept a day of swearing allegiance to the state and to uphold its laws and values doesn't change things overnight. But it might help give people a sense of affiliation.

Otherwise what do you suggest to address what I highlighted on my last page.

What I would suggest is a widespread participation in Easter Commemorations each year to manifest a sense of patriotism and pride. As for referring to a ghost summoned forth in response to ulicks point, it almost makes it see like partition is in the past. It ain't no ghost yet and needs no summoning.

You continue to ignore the sentiment that has appeared throughout this thread.

You call for 'widespread participation' but refuse to even acknowledge some of the reasons, mentioned here, why people stay away.

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I know the sentiment you refer to only too well: The blinding hypocricy of Old IRA=Good, P IRA=bad, and the idea that if nobody but SF bothers with commemorating 1916, then SF are therefor hijacking it 

It is blinding hypocrisy only to you. Respect and recognition was afforded the rebels only in hindsight, after most of them had lost their lives for the cause. You demand the same treatment for people who only took lives.

So for a Volunteer to have respect he has to be killed? Did the Old IRA not take lives?

[muppet]

Fine. another ghost summoned forth to stifle us in the present.

How does any one expect to convince many of those within the north to join with a crack pot society down south if we don't address the malaise within. I accept a day of swearing allegiance to the state and to uphold its laws and values doesn't change things overnight. But it might help give people a sense of affiliation.

Otherwise what do you suggest to address what I highlighted on my last page.

What I would suggest is a widespread participation in Easter Commemorations each year to manifest a sense of patriotism and pride. As for referring to a ghost summoned forth in response to ulicks point, it almost makes it see like partition is in the past. It ain't no ghost yet and needs no summoning.

You continue to ignore the sentiment that has appeared throughout this thread.

You call for 'widespread participation' but refuse to even acknowledge some of the reasons, mentioned here, why people stay away.

Ulick meanwhile, brilliantly provides an argument, via Robert Emmet, against the National Graves Association and thus the Easter Lily.

I know the sentiment you refer to only too well: The blinding hypocricy of Old IRA=Good, P IRA=bad, and the idea that if nobody but SF bothers with commemorating 1916, then SF are therefor hijacking it 

It is blinding hypocrisy only to you. Respect and recognition was afforded the rebels only in hindsight, after most of them had lost their lives for the cause. You demand the same treatment for people who only took lives.

So for a Volunteer to have respect he has to be killed? Did the Old IRA not take lives?

I am merely pointing out a flaw in your demands for the PIRA to be treated equally with the 1916 dead.