Partitionist abuse - The poison of the meeja?

[Evil Genius]

And ofcourse the good Loyalists of Linfield and Glentoran are choirboys.

And this relates to the subject in hand how? 

[Evil Genius]

EG, I don't see anything remotely funny in this whatsoever. It's no laughing matter...

I thought I had made it clear, but maybe not.

Anyhow, quite aside from Gaelic footballers exchanging (deplorable) sectarian insults etc on the playing field, as a Unionist I find it hugely amusing that Republicans who all profess to want to see a United Ireland, should at the same time give each other so much grief from their respective sides of the border.

It all reminds me of Brendan Behan's observation that whenever Irish Republicans meet, the first item on the Agenda is always 'The Split'... 

Not all of us want a united Ireland, most of us want nothing to do with Northern Ireland.

For many Northerners*, the feeling is mutual.


* - And not just the Nationalist ones, either... 

[muppet]

My faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.

He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.

Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.

Again: AND others attached to political parties

So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?

I never mentioned Michael D, you did.

By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.

McGuinness's quote was not a reference to any opponent, and even if it were, you spoke about how either Derryman would be labelled "after" they won.

And as for my reference to Michael D....well it's your analogy. You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances. Seriously?

Wrong again, you brought up their being from Derry, not me. I never mentioned it. To me an Irishman is an Irishman. I don't care where he is from. You on the other hand seem to think that the West Brit insult couldn't possible apply to some Irishmen and yet you obviously feel it applies to others. Why the discrimination?

It's nothing to do with where they are from, I am merely referring to them by where they are from, in the same way I have referred to them by their surname. Incidental.

You are being evasive as possible here. I ask you again, You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances??!

Firstly and for the umpteenth time, I never mentioned they were from Derry. You did. They could be from Carlow or Kerry for all I care. You are the one who made the Derry connection and you included their being from Derry when questioning how they could be West Brits. You are the one being evasive as you still haven't explained this.

Secondly you still pretend McGuinness was only talking about the media. He wasn't, he was also clearly firing the insult at unnamed political opponents. Now, since it was during a Presidential Election it is reasonable to assume those opponents were connected to that election and not, say, a local election in Tyrone. I would guess his target was further right than Higgins but as he never named them, who knows? (Other than yourself obviously).

[Evil Genius]

Partitionism will end sooner than we think. But not in the way we would have previously thought, patitionism will end by the full rejoining of the 32 counties to the UK. I firmly believe that more and more people in the 26 counties would be glad of this to happen. The anglisicaton of the Free State in the last 10 years has been unreal. The media lap it up, it as if they are thinking thank God we can finally admit we love  Britain! I was listening to 2fm last week prior to St Patricks and the DJ's comment was somehthing like- there will be a great parade in Cork tomorrow, I reckon there will be a lot of peoople dressed up as the Queen this year- very minor thing but, why would this even enter your head to say it-very strange.

I would think this is not a serious post. Although this could lead to another debate. Would the Unionists in Northern Ireland want the 26 counties to rejoin the UK? Can't think of any reason why they would.

I'd say we'd use our Veto.

Or failing that, leave the UK...

[Nally Stand]

My faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.

He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.

Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.

Again: AND others attached to political parties

So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?

I never mentioned Michael D, you did.

By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.

McGuinness's quote was not a reference to any opponent, and even if it were, you spoke about how either Derryman would be labelled "after" they won.

And as for my reference to Michael D....well it's your analogy. You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances. Seriously?

Wrong again, you brought up their being from Derry, not me. I never mentioned it. To me an Irishman is an Irishman. I don't care where he is from. You on the other hand seem to think that the West Brit insult couldn't possible apply to some Irishmen and yet you obviously feel it applies to others. Why the discrimination?

It's nothing to do with where they are from, I am merely referring to them by where they are from, in the same way I have referred to them by their surname. Incidental.

You are being evasive as possible here. I ask you again, You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances??!

Firstly and for the umpteenth time, I never mentioned they were from Derry. You did. They could be from Carlow or Kerry for all I care. You are the one who made the Derry connection and you included their being from Derry when questioning how they could be West Brits. You are the one being evasive as you still haven't explained this.

Secondly you still pretend McGuinness was only talking about the media. He wasn't, he was also clearly firing the insult at unnamed political opponents. Now, since it was during a Presidential Election it is reasonable to assume those opponents were connected to that election and not, say, a local election in Tyrone. I would guess his target was further right than Higgins but as he never named them, who knows? (Other than yourself obviously).

I didn't bring up the Derrymen connection did. Yourself and Maguire started that. I merely responded:

Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.

After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.

And your post as quoted above referred to how either man would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the Presidential election. So PLEASE explain why they would be labelled, when Michael D wasn't?

[muppet]

And your post as quoted above referred to how either man would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the Presidential election. So PLEASE explain why they would be labelled, when Michael D wasn't?

You are tied in knots now.

You brought their being from Derry into this.

Secondly McGuinness blamed West Brit elements for questioning his IRA past. That was the context of his insult. Michael D Higgins was one of those who questioned his IRA past so it is very possible McGuinness was including him, but as he didn't elaborate, who knows who he was talking about? Other than yourself of course, who seems to know all on this topic, but naturally you won't tell us.

[Nally Stand]

And your post as quoted above referred to how either man would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the Presidential election. So PLEASE explain why they would be labelled, when Michael D wasn't?

You are tied in knots now.

You brought their being from Derry into this.

Secondly McGuinness blamed West Brit elements for questioning his IRA past. That was the context of his insult. Michael D Higgins was one of those who questioned his IRA past so it is very possible McGuinness was including him, but as he didn't elaborate, who knows who he was talking about? Other than yourself of course, who seems to know all on this topic, but naturally you won't tell us.

How exactly did I bring Derry into it?? Maguire was talking about Seamus Heaney & John Hume and your response was about them! I only continued talking about them! Keep up!! And your comment was about what the reaction would be AFTER either WON the presidency. You predicted they would be termed "west-brits".

Based on this, please answer:

1. "After" Michael D won the Presidency, did McGuinness label him a west brit?
2. Bearing in mind that the answer to the above question, no matter how hard you wish it were not, is no - why would it be different for Heaney/Hume?

[Nally Stand]

Jaysus, I have read this and I want to get to the bottom of it. I have two questions. One for muppet and one for Nally Stand.

Muppet:
You made a comment in reply to Maguire in which you said that after winning the presidential election Heaney and Hume would be called west brits. Why do you think they would be called west brits?

Nally Stand:
You replied to muppet's comment (see above) asking why someone from Derry would be called a west brit. muppet didn't say that they would be called west brits because they are from Derry. To me, west britishness is to do with political thinking rather than where in Ireland you live. Why did you ask your question?

I only said Derry because the two men Maguire was referring too were from Derry (Seamus Heaney & John Hume). I have referred to them at different stages both as Derrymen and other times by their surnames. Both just by way of outlining who I was referring to. Nothing more and no significance attached to where they are from. If they were e.g. from Wexford, I'd stil ask the same questions off muppet - why would they be called west-brits "after" winning the presidency.

[Nally Stand]

Jaysus, I have read this and I want to get to the bottom of it. I have two questions. One for muppet and one for Nally Stand.

Muppet:
You made a comment in reply to Maguire in which you said that after winning the presidential election Heaney and Hume would be called west brits. Why do you think they would be called west brits?

Nally Stand:
You replied to muppet's comment (see above) asking why someone from Derry would be called a west brit. muppet didn't say that they would be called west brits because they are from Derry. To me, west britishness is to do with political thinking rather than where in Ireland you live. Why did you ask your question?

I only said Derry because the two men Maguire was referring too were from Derry (Seamus Heaney & John Hume). I have referred to them at different stages both as Derrymen and other times by their surnames. Both just by way of outlining who I was referring to. Nothing more and no significance attached to where they are from. If they were e.g. from Wexford, I'd stil ask the same questions off muppet - why would they be called west-brits "after" winning the presidency.

Nah, Nally, that's not how your original question reads to me (and possibly everyone else). Somebody from Derry could be called a west brit as much as someone from any other county. If you wish to retract that question and replace it with the following, then fair enough:

why would they be called west-brits "after" winning the presidency.

Up to muppet then...

Well apologies if that is misleading but my subsequent posts make it clear that I am attaching no importance what-so-ever to the Derry aspect. Again, only mentioned because the two men that Maguire and muppet referred to were Derrymen.

[Nally Stand]

Fair enough.

Just a wee test here. Give me the name of a real person who you believe to be a west brit.

Ahh not a test! I thought those days were well behind me!

Hows about Sir Anthony Joseph Francis O'Reilly, for one.

Conor Cruise?
Ruth Dudley?

[Nally Stand]

Fair enough.

Just a wee test here. Give me the name of a real person who you believe to be a west brit.

Ahh not a test! I thought those days were well behind me!

Hows about Sir Anthony Joseph Francis O'Reilly, for one.

Conor Cruise?
Ruth Dudley?

Thanks for that. Perfect answer and yes, all west brits in my opinion. Now, had the lads been talking about those three, would you have answered the following statement (italics) with the question (in bold)?

Had Tony beans, Conor Cruise O'Brien or Ruth Dudley Edwards won the presidential election, they would be called west brits.

Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Dublin and winning the Presidency??

and winning the Presidency?

No. I wouldn't have been totally certain without looking it up that all three were bornin /live in Dublin if I'm honest. But when Maguire & Muppet mentioned Heaney & Hume, I mentioned Derry because they had it in common that they were from Derry. No other reason, again apologies if it was misleading, but there was zero significance attached to it!!

[muppet]

OK, your question should really have been "Why would they have been called west brits".

Now on to muppet.

OK, your question should really have been "Why would they have been called west brits".

Now on to muppet.

Aleady answered that.

McGuinness referred to more than just the media, he also referred to others connected to political parties. The context was them asking (the most predictably obvious) questions about his IRA past. Most of his opponents did that, including Higgins, although McGuinness never specified his target(s).

The focus on before/after the election is irrelevant as Hume/Heaney didn't run. The label would most likely have appeared whenever they entered the race. On this thread their names only appeared as dead cert winners of the election, i.e. without all of the debates and questions that would have to go with getting elected. Nally predictable is focusing on one irrelevant word 'after' and ignores the point, the 'West Brit' I-am-more-Irish-than-you insult. Given that I have seen SDLP members called West Brits on this forum it is not as great a leap as some might pretend.

[Nally Stand]

Well you said "afterwards". And it's amazing how much squirming you are doing to try claim that McGuinness labelled Michael D a west brit. HE DID NOT. YOUR SQUIRMING AND WISHFUL THINKING DOESN'T CHANGE THAT. In fact, far from terming Muchael D a west brit, McGuinness actually said Higgins "is a man of great intellectual capacity and man of huge heart and I've every confidence that he will be one of Ireland's finest presidents" and believed he "would be my president also" (which seems the opposite of labelling him a west brit).

So the fact is, we have been talking about this for an age now, and you have not put up one good reason yet to explain why McGuinness would term either Heaney or Hume as west brits for winning the presidency.

[Denn Forever]

Nally - 9.42 am

you have not put up one good reason yet to explain why McGuinness would term either Heaney or Hume as west brits for winning the presidency.

Muppet - 5.50am

Given that I have seen SDLP members called West Brits on this forum it is not as great a leap as some might pretend.

[Nally Stand]

Nally - 9.42 am

you have not put up one good reason...

And only one of the two men referred to are in the sdlp, so all in all, hardly muppet's reasoning for his original comment!