Partitionist abuse - The poison of the meeja?

[Hardy]

Denis Faul, Seán Quinn, every Down team to come out of Uslter,  Cardinals Daly and Ó Fiaich, Peter Canavan ("God", no less, to the media, South as well as North - sure they even turned on us when he sprained his ankle, as if it was our fault).

[Dont Matter]

It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.

I've lived here all my life and I didn't notice this. Again, I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.


And Barry McGuigan. 

Oh yes there was exceptions but the Connor Cruise O'Brien fellow led the campaign which many followed. I don't know the exact quote but something along the lines of keeping the foot firmly placed on Nationalists throats or something similar was mentioned.
Yes it was an anti Republican campaign but it went further in my opinion.

[AQMP]

Denis Faul, Seán Quinn, every Down team to come out of Uslter,  Cardinals Daly and Ó Fiaich, Peter Canavan ("God", no less, to the media, South as well as North - sure they even turned on us when he sprained his ankle, as if it was our fault).

Cue another 50 pages...

[Dont Matter]

It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.

I'd be very, very surprised, if it were a 'common' view that anyone from the north who considers themselves Irish is not as Irish as the rest of us. I have no anecdotal or quantative evidence that that would ever be the case in any significant numbers.

Sorry not the common view but many hold it, even amongst GAA people.

[ziggysego]

Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.

Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.

Dromid got a load of abuse for running to the whore themselves to the media when they lost and couldn't accept it. To me it seems Armagh are doing the same. If McKeever had called a Laois man a "free-state ****" and got took up for it retrospectively and labelled a racist their would be uproar on here for heavy-handiness. And rightly so.

Do you really think that the North is the only ones to take abuse? When Cork and Kerry play do you think they go around saying "Hi Sean, pleased to see you, great day for a game". What next? Will Roscommon take up everyone who calls them a sheep-shagger for abuse? Will Donal-og go around looking for retrospective banning from every county who players or fans called him a "homo". Clinton Hennessy could do the same considering the abuse he takes because his brother is gay. What about Jason Sherlock or the O'Halpins, you think they were never called "black" or "chinks" or told to "f**k off back to China"?

On this board Nally Stand regularly mocks the Mexicans by addressing them in German or telling them they are controlled by Germany. Sure why don't we just ban him from it for racist remarks, sure its no different than calling a Northerner a Bristish b**tard.

This is a storm in a tea-cup. There has been alot worse abuse threw out on a GAA field than this. I can think of one alleged example last year involving a Donegal player and a young Tyrone player that, if it were true, would have completely crossed the lines of gamesmanship and let a very sour taste for any person who would have heard it. Likewise I was talking to a few Cavan lads last night and they were saying that McMenamin, McGuigan and Gormley were known to sledge players to try and get a physcological edge. They didn't advocate any bans or call them cheats or racists, they just said that this kind of thing was now rife in the GAA and no-one can truly stand and back say its a disgrace without being hypocritical.

Before I respond, I want to make sure you know what I'm saying in this post.

What do you think I've said?

[whiskeysteve]

If you're genuinely looking for an opinion from the "South" rather than having an ould whinge, here's one.

As discussed here during the Presidential election campaign, you're confusing anti-Sinn Féin feeling with anti-Northern feeling. There is indeed among a huge majority of citizens of the Republic a very profound loathing of Sinn Fein and the Provo agenda they promoted during the troubles and continue to justify today. Sinn Féin supporters continue to misinterpret this anti-Sinn Fein sentiment as anti-Northern.

As an aside, this misinterpretation seems to betray a conviction that Sinn Féin are somehow uniquely representative of the people of the Northern state or at least present the only valid or acceptable version of Northern nationalism.

However, two simple examples, one related to the Presidential campaign you cite, will serve to illustrate how wrong-headed the perception of anti-Northern sentiment is.

1. When Seanus Heaney was being sounded out as a potential candidate, the universal belief was that if he ran, it would be pointless to run a candidate against him, so popular would his candidacy be.

2. John Hume recently won a mass-participation poll run by the Late late Show to select the greatest ever Irishman.

If your point is about ignorant terrace banter between football supporters I'd only say it's foolish to take heed of ill-informed cat-calling among the uneducated, who apply a schoolboy level of discrimination in seeking out distinguishing factors to mock in their opponents. I'd be surprised if you could declare a winner in the loutishness stakes between those shouting "go back to Britain" on the one hand and "Free State b**tards" on the other.

not whinging old boy just genuinely interested in opinions.

Am I wrong in thinking partionist abuse is on the rise? I am interested in the source of the rise if it is.

[Ulick]

I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.

I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.

[Nally Stand]

Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.

I doubt very much if Sheehan & McKeever were discussing the ins and outs of SF policies when Sheehan began singing GSTQ into McKeever's ear and calling him a "British bastard". I doubt very much if the dubs leaving Croke Park after the Tyrone semi-final last year were thinking about SF when they began singing at a group of Tyrone fans walking infront of them (myself included) that they should "F**k off back to England". I recall Michael Martin during the General Election campaign lambasting Martin McGuinness for "coming down here to the republic". That was not an attack on any SF policy, but rather a deep seeded partitionist mindset which he couldn't keep under wraps. I also recall during the same campaign, when BBC Hearts & Minds ran a vox-pop of students in Dublin on the topic of McGuinness' candidature, and the most frequent responses were summed up nicely by a girl at the end who remarked "personally, I think he should stay up north, he shouldn't come down here". I also recall McGuinness being challenged by a woman in the audience during a "Frontline" debate, who lambasted him for coming "down here". When McGuinness responded ""I come from Derry and Derry is as Irish as Cork," the woman responded "no it isn't". Again, that's hardly a discussion of SF policy. It is partitionism. I also recall reading a columnist in the indo stating "I hold my hand up and admit that I'm one of those "partitionist in my thinking" types that Martin McGuinness so dislikes. The 1998 referendum on the Good Friday Agreement dealing with the removal of the Republic's territorial claim to the North was no wrench to me. I reckon it's a murky little middle-class secret kept by myself and many others". I also recall a Hogan Cup game a few years ago (as I mentioned on another thread), where several lads on the Carlow team AND a linesman were dishing out the "brit b******s" line to Omagh players. Again, hardly a discussion of SF politics. Even the little things.... Kenny Archer noted in the paper today, that in the All-Ireland club finals programme, there were twelve experts interviewed for their opinions...none of them were from the north despite two six county teams being involved on the day (and all twelve got their predictions wrong!). I also recall a few years back overhearing a conversation in a Monaghan hotel between two Dublin women, and one telling the other how her son was going to Belfast and that she was nervous for him because it was "his first time in a foreign city by himself". Again, not a mention from her about SF.

[whiskeysteve]

Also come to think of it I didn't mention SF once in my OP.

Should I flat out clarify that I don't support SF? Seems to lend weight to having a valid interpretation on here 

To be fair there is no getting away from it. The majority of GAA people in the North would probably vote Sinn Fein, not all of them by a long shot of course WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING HARDY 

[Ulick]

Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.

Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.

Ziggys correct. I remember well the Free State  media hysteria because two northern teams made the final and there were indeed calls for segregation. The press archives aren't available online for free but a quick Google turned up this passing reference in an archive copy of the Donegal Times.

http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html
"Move aside Armagh and Tyrone for the moment - we have our enactment here in Donegal in the shape of the U-14 championship decider between neighbours Naohm Naille and Four Masters. Scheduled for Mc Cumhaill Park on the week-end of September 13th/14th (check fixture list), this contest has all the ingredients of being a closely contested affair. There will be no lavish press nights - no mention of segregating rival fans - no stress levels associated with demand for tickets and hopefully no planned garda excort for match officials, and yet the game takes on even more importance than any All-Ireland for those involved. "

[Hardy]

I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.

I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.

I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.

Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.

However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?

[brokencrossbar1]

I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.

I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.

I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.

Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.

However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?

Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?

[trileacman]

Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.

Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.

Ziggys correct. I remember well the Free State  media hysteria because two northern teams made the final and there were indeed calls for segregation. The press archives aren't available online for free but a quick Google turned up this passing reference in an archive copy of the Donegal Times.

http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html
"Move aside Armagh and Tyrone for the moment - we have our enactment here in Donegal in the shape of the U-14 championship decider between neighbours Naohm Naille and Four Masters. Scheduled for Mc Cumhaill Park on the week-end of September 13th/14th (check fixture list), this contest has all the ingredients of being a closely contested affair. There will be no lavish press nights - no mention of segregating rival fans - no stress levels associated with demand for tickets and hopefully no planned garda excort for match officials, and yet the game takes on even more importance than any All-Ireland for those involved. "

That's your media hysteria? A throw-away comment in the Donegal Times discussing the 2003 U-14 final?

Sure Jaysus you've just pointed out that the entire anti-northern sentiment is originating from the diehard followers of the Donegal U-14 championship. I think we've found the problems lads.

[trileacman]

It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.

Do you live in Dublin or the South?

Laois.

And you encounter alot of Anti-Northern sentiment in Laois? I live in Dublin and have seen or heard very little of it.

[Applesisapples]

As I have stated elswhere I have played and indeed refereed in my day in any number of border counties in the south. I have never encountered any racist or partitionist abuse from opponents or teams. There is an underbelly in the south who do regard the north as foreign, there reasoning ranges from a benign ignorance to just sheer indifference. I have a few southern friends who think this way. They don't mean any harm or offence its just not important to them. I was brought up in a household that revered the men of 1916, I would have been aware of my fathers republican politics, although never spoken. No one told me I was Irish, although plenty tried to make me British, I just knew it. It was through music, culture, sport and history that I knew it. Many people in the south do accept our Irishness, look at the way in which Mary McAleese is accepted as being one of the great Irish Presidents. Accepting us as Irish though doesn't necessaryily lead to accepting the North as a part of the Republic. And before we give off there are many who consider themselves Irish in the North quite happy to live in the UK. Two things though annoy me as being hypocritical. Firstly how  people in the South who laud the men of 1916/20 but on the other deplore what the Provos did...one mans freedom fighter etc... And the hypocracy of the Southern Press who happily embrace McIlroy, Best, Morrison, Coulter,Moore, Heaney, Canavan,Brady etc as great Irishmen when it suits and then trot out anti northern  tripe on the other. But you know what calling someone a British/Irish/Polish/Scottish/English Bastard, take your choice is racist.