The Household charge

[Lar Naparka]

Paid yesterday. A tax on property is a relatively fair way to gather income for the state. It should never have been done away with in the first place.

Problem is that when property tax was done away with, in '77, it was replaced by other forms of taxation. Income tax, VAT, and the old reliables, fags, booze and motor fuel, got hammered.

It's been a case of double whammy all the way from the early 80s onwards.
Now we are on the point of re-introducing domestic rates. The present government has let it be known that this €100 household tax is just the forerunner to a full-blooded property tax to operate from next year.
Now, nearly all the old forms of taxation have been brought back but the ones that replaced them are still in operation—a classic double whammy.

It seems we are going to have a water tax in the near future. 
We are already paying refuse collection charges. 
As I see it, the soon-to-be-reintroduced property tax will bring no benefits to anyone forced to fork out for it as service charges have to be paid as well.
There has been no wage/pension increases for a number of years and the likelihood is that there will be none for the foreseeable future.
More and more households are being forced into poverty as the cost of living goes up and the taxation burden, direct and indirect, steadily rises.
How the hell can anyone expect to get the economy moving again if increased taxation, with less disposable income as a consequence, appears to be the only way forward?
 
I'm paying nothing!

[Hound]

I can't believe how any PAYE worker is against the household charge.

If the household charge is abolished, then income tax rates will have to be increased. The money has to come from somewhere. PAYE workers already subsidise those on social welfare more than enough and we don't need to be giving more incentives for people not to work.

A flat rate for everyone who has a house is very fair. And in future years it will increase, with those in bigger houses paying more.

[fearglasmor]

I can't believe how any PAYE worker is against the household charge.

If the household charge is abolished, then income tax rates will have to be increased. The money has to come from somewhere. PAYE workers already subsidise those on social welfare more than enough and we don't need to be giving more incentives for people not to work.

A flat rate for everyone who has a house is very fair. And in future years it will increase, with those in bigger houses paying more.

Wouldnt agree with that. If this charge is to fund local authorities, then people in rural areas need to pay the most. This is where you most often see half a dozen lads leaning on shovels or looking into a hole being dug by a jcb.

[Billys Boots]

Taxation best practice internationally, for non-income-based taxes, would require that, among several factors: (a) taxes are equitable, and are seen to be so, and (b) they should be to fund a particular consequence(s) of the activity being taxed (ring-fenced).  There's a history of our Depth of Finance flouting these and other rules for many years, and this is another example of it. 

The problem has its roots in Jack Lynch's disastrous removal of the local authority rates system in 1977; it has never been successfully replaced.  Even the commercial rates system has only been reviewed recently and that has been an unmitigated disaster for businesses - the least transparent review I've ever seen, anyway. 

This will go on for years and years; it could even be the issue that resurrects FF. 

[muppet]

Taxation best practice internationally, for non-income-based taxes, would require that, among several factors: (a) taxes are equitable, and are seen to be so, and (b) they should be to fund a particular consequence(s) of the activity being taxed (ring-fenced).  There's a history of our Depth of Finance flouting these and other rules for many years, and this is another example of it. 

The problem has its roots in Jack Lynch's disastrous removal of the local authority rates system in 1977; it has never been successfully replaced.  Even the commercial rates system has only been reviewed recently and that has been an unmitigated disaster for businesses - the least transparent review I've ever seen, anyway. 

This will go on for years and years; it could even be the issue that resurrects FF.

Which would be ironic in the extreme.

[Billys Boots]

Irony is one of the very few things we're good at. 

[Bingo]

Paid it few weeks back.

All this talk that it is a forerunner to something else has me puzzled. Any attempt to level it on house size or valuation will have so many issues and problems. They say that it is to pay for local services at local council level, therefore the use of these services are outside the home and not related to ones house or ones income. They can't say its a water charge as in rural parts many people have their own water supply or on group schemes.

As someone posted, PAYE workers can't take all the burden but will do if this isn't introduced in some format. Worse is ahead.

I can see a few high profile prosecutions for non-payment in the early days and a few martyrs doing time over it.

[Rossfan]

Already paid it.
The days of the " free lunch I'm paying nothing vote for me because I'm against evrything that's not nice" that have lasted since 1977 are now gone.
We will be paying property taxes like most other European countries from now for ever and a day. Hopefully it will result in future generations putting their energies into building a productive economy - not building overpriced houses and trying to make living on rental income an industry.
Somebody mentioned the irony of FF maybe coming back to life by being against this property tax.
The irony is already there - pinkshirt ex builder/developer/owes €48m Wallace is part of the motley group of populist eejit TDs who are opposing this charge.

[highorlow]

As a nation we complain all day about things been unfair this way and that, yet we go out and bet on Chelthenham, the Football and drink like its running out on days like last Saturday. So we can set 100 quid aside for this yet we can't pay our taxes? Very strange.

Therefore based on the obvious hypocrisy in the country currently I have a solution that would ensure all / most people would pay.

Set 10 mil aside out of the 160mil target and offer 10 prizes of 1mil to people that pay, i.e. when you do pay you get a number. The draw would be based on the house / registered number drawn, 1st 10 out of the hat are millionaires.

'Q' the rush to pay by Paddy when there is a wee gamble involved!!

p.s. If they don't reach the 160m then they can reduce the prize fund from say 10 to 8 if only 150mil is raised.

[LaurelEye]

The real protest should be against another event that happens on the 31st March. That day the Irish Government gives €3.1bn of taxpayers money to IBRC (Anglo & INBS) who will give it to the Irish Central Bank who will then destroy it.

On the one hand we have a Government who seem afraid to, or are incapable of, finding a way out of Lenihan's disastrous decisions. On the other hand, against them we have a bunch of left-wing politicians who always fight the stupid fight. They are protesting over the €100 and trying to get people not to pay and doing f*ck all about the €3.1bn. That is the one we should not pay.

Don't disagree with you. (I'm actually one of the 15% who have paid through gritted teeth.) However the €100 is the one that the ordinary plebs feel that they have some control over; we can protest all we want about the €3.1bn but short of storming Dáil Éireann with Joe McNamara's truck there's nothing we can do to stop it.

[muppet]

The real protest should be against another event that happens on the 31st March. That day the Irish Government gives €3.1bn of taxpayers money to IBRC (Anglo & INBS) who will give it to the Irish Central Bank who will then destroy it.

On the one hand we have a Government who seem afraid to, or are incapable of, finding a way out of Lenihan's disastrous decisions. On the other hand, against them we have a bunch of left-wing politicians who always fight the stupid fight. They are protesting over the €100 and trying to get people not to pay and doing f*ck all about the €3.1bn. That is the one we should not pay.

Don't disagree with you. (I'm actually one of the 15% who have paid through gritted teeth.) However the €100 is the one that the ordinary plebs feel that they have some control over; we can protest all we want about the €3.1bn but short of storming Dáil Éireann with Joe McNamara's truck there's nothing we can do to stop it.

A protest over the €3.1bn would be one that could see David McWilliams, Colm McCarthy, Constantine Gordkiev, Morgan Kelly march alongside the likes of Joe Higgins, Claire Daly etc. It would be neither a left nor right wing protest and it would undoubtedly be supported by the vast majority of people.

The €100 protest is a stunt.

[lawnseed]

you see.. of course people will pay. truth is most already have. just wait until its 2000euro per annum like us nordies pay. that will test you intestinal fortitude

[Benny Sweeney]

you see.. of course people will pay. truth is most already have. just wait until its 2000euro per annum like us nordies pay. that will test you intestinal fortitude

Yes biut you get NHS, i had to pay fifty euro to doctir for head cold recently

[Puckoon]

Why the fcuk were you going to the Dr to see about a head cold?

It's nancy hewers like you driving up the cost of health care.

[All of a Sludden]

Won't be paying.