Laois v Armagh - NFL Round 5 - Sunday 18th March

[Dont Matter]

Any of ye people from Norther Ireland Armagh have any word on the CCCC meeting last night?

[Dont Matter]

It's alright don't bother ye're Northern heads, here's the scéal: http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=165378

[sheamy]

begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, whose word did the referee take in the first place?

[brokencrossbar1]

begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, who's word did the referee take in the first place?

The 4th official who has no standing to make the report.

[Smokin Joe]

begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, who's word did the referee take in the first place?

The 4th official who has no standing to make the report.

I'm struggling to comprehend this.

They can't take the word of the 4th official (because he is not allowed to point out indiscretions) yet they were apparently trying to find a "reputable witness".  Other than the 3 main officials how could they ever find a more "reputible witness" than the 4th official?

It's crazy.

[trasna man]

begs the question...if the CCCC couldn't find a credible witness, who's word did the referee take in the first place?

The 4th official who has no standing to make the report.

I'm struggling to comprehend this.

They can't take the word of the 4th official (because he is not allowed to point out indiscretions) yet they were apparently trying to find a "reputable witness".  Other than the 3 main officials how could they ever find a more "reputible witness" than the 4th official?

It's crazy.

What are the Duties of a Sideline Official?

The duties of the sideline official are:
To receive substitution notes giving the name and number of a substitute or temporary substitute and the name and number of the player being substituted or replaced. To record and report all substitutions and temporary substitutions made during a game to the referee for inclusion in the match report. To display by means of electronic or manual board the numbers of players being substituted. To display by means of electronic or manual board

taken from the official guide

[EwanMacKenna]

More shameless self-promotion, but for anyone interested...
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/opinion-abuse-should-go-in-one-ear-and-out-the-other-for-armagh-400378-Mar2012/

[OakleafCounty]

My first post on here and what a humdinger of a thread. Sledging is part and parcel of the game which I have experienced a lot of during my playing time. I think the agenda to turn football into a non contact sport is a contributory factor as it's now easier to get a player booked. I also blame the win at all costs "including your dignity" mentality that's come into the game.

As for what was said in this particular instance. Well of all the people to get on their high horses I have to laugh at Armagh. Armagh fans are definitly the most foul mouthed I've come across. I remember an Ulster final about 10-12 years ago I was in my mid teens and my cousin and I found ourselves standing in the hill in Clones surrounded by about 50 Armagh "men" who shouted abuse at us about "Londonderry" through the whole game. So they don't have my sympathy.

[PatDaly]

http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549

Published on Friday 30 March 2012 10:30

"I'm not prejudiced but if a c**n moved in next door, I'd move, like most white people would. If my daughter came home with a n****r, I'd go mad. But I'm only being truthful and normal."

So said Anfield legend Tommy Smith in an interview with author Dave Hill in 1988. At the time, black soccer players like Justin Fashanu and Cyril Regis were running the gauntlet. When they took to the field on Saturdays at 3pm, the stands erupted in gorilla chants. Bananas were thrown onto the field. When West Brom broke new ground by signing Regis, Laurie Cunningham and Brendan Bateson, they were promptly christened "The Three Degrees" and amended lyrics from the American group's hits were sung at every ground. When Regis was selected to play for England, he received a bullet in the post with a note reading: "If you play for us at Wembley, one of these will be shot into your knees, you black b******." This is racism.

The Armagh County Board last week accusing a Laois player of "racism" after he repeatedly taunted their captain Ciaran McKeever, alledgely branding him " a British bastard" and shouting "God save the Queen" in his face. British? Affordable housing, safe banks, steady employment and a stable infrastructure? On one view, it's not much of an insult. And it isn't racism.

What it is however, is an unpleasant attack on the ethos of the GAA, betraying as it does a certain partitionist mentality. In his book, Big Joe Kernan recalls " One of the few times as Armagh manager I really lost my temper was in a league game against Laois. One Laois man, who was part of the official party squared up to John Rafferty and called us 'orange b*****ds'. While I should have laughed at it, I was infuriated. I felt like laying him out with a punch, but managed to restrain myself."

When Saint Mary's CBS Grammar school from Belfast played and defeated Doon CBS from Limerick in the colleges All-Ireland 'B' hurling semi-final a fortnight ago, the Belfast students complained afterwards that they were subjected to incessant racial abuse by the opposition. The father of one of the lads described in a local newspaper how when he went to celebrate with his son at the final whistle, he was told by one of the Doon players to "Go back to Britain and play your f***ing games up there."

It is a dirty secret. It is widespread. Yet the authorities pretend it doesn't exist. The hierarchy was reported to be "furious" at the Armagh Board's public statement, written by chairman Paul Duggan, a man of the utmost integrity. Yet his complaint, instead of sparking an immediate inquisition, was brushed under the carpet by Croke Park. Within a day, a very bland joint statement was released by the Armagh and Laois boards suggesting that nothing had really happened at all. Meanwhile Armagh's assistant manager Paul Grimley was pointing out that both the referee and the linesman spoke to the Laois player in question during the game and asked him to refrain. Can you imagine what would happen if the Ulster RFU alleged that Rory Best had been told to "Go back to Britain you orange b******d"during an interprovincial game at Donnybrook? The IRFU would come down on the culprit like a ton of bricks. Yet when the exact same thing happens in our game – and it happens all the time - it is buried.

There has always been a slightly uneasy relationship between elements of the Irish people north and south. After the Derrytresk/Dromid incident a few months ago, Joe Duffy had outraged southern-folk queuing up to vent to their spleen about those dirty northerners. Two "Liveline" shows were devoted to the scandal and still they jammed the switchboards, each new caller more indignant than the last. A man from Kildare summed up the mood when he suggested, "The Northern Ireland crowd should be told to play their football up in Northern Ireland."

A few days later, petrol was poured on the Dromid fire by the request from Dr Crokes' Killarney chairman Vincent Casey that their supporters be segregated from Crossmaglen's for their recent All-Ireland club semi-final. Casey had other demands: "We are also looking for an increased number of stewards at the venue and a bigger Garda presence than last Sunday." He seemed to think that Crossmaglen's supporters would be arriving sporting black berets, dark glasses and AK47s. It was of course nonsensical, but again, it illustrated a certain mindset.

Culturally, we are no doubt slightly different. In a way, northern Gaels are more ferocious about our Irishness because we had to fight harder for it. My father, a veteran republican, fluent Irish speaker and traditional musician steeped in all things Gaelic quipped to me during the week, " Don't be too hard on the southerners Joe, some of them are almost as Irish as we are." Our experience explains why we are far more fervent about our province than the other three. When I began working in RTE I was amazed that Cork people didn't support Kerry when they got out of Munster and Mayo folk didn't support Galway. Up here, we rally round whoever gets through because we feel we are all in it together. When Tyrone scored their killer goal in the 2005 final against Kerry, a Derry man sitting in the stand jumped up, punched the air in delight and roared, "Come on you Tyrone b******ds!"

In 1998, Michael McGimpsey, the Unionist Minister for Sport gave the IFA a £9million grant for the development of local soccer. The GAA – as was usual then - got nothing. The Ulster Council issued discrimination proceedings and the Department settled out of court for £6.7 million. The gates had been prised open and we have kept them open since. A high ranking official in Croke Park remarked snidely to me some years ago that, "You boys up there are experts at taking the Queen's shilling."

In 2009, ex Roscommon goalie Shane Curran, in his weekly column in the "Roscommon Champion" insisted the northern counties' success had little to do with ability- and more to do with financial assistance from the 'British' government. He wrote, "The emergence of the northern counties owes as much to the peace process and the financial assistance afforded to them by her Majesty than any real innovation. Money has played a significant part in the development of Tyrone and to a lesser extent Armagh." The fact that he felt secure enough to write this in an Irish paper speaks volumes.

When Martin McGuinness announced his presidential campaign, vitriol flowed. Appearing on RTE's Frontline he was asked by one young woman: "Why are you running in this election, you are not Irish, why do you not go back up north, you belong to a different state, this is the Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland".

When northern teams were winning nothing, coming down to get an annual hammering, we were patronised left, right and centre. "It's great to see ye keeping the game alive up there." When we started winning and winning regularly in the 90s and noughties, begrudgery was the new theme. Armagh were robots. Tyrone? Puke footballers. Suddenly, we are British b*****ds who should go back to the north.

Northmen, Southmen, comrades all my arse.

[Applesisapples]

My first post on here and what a humdinger of a thread. Sledging is part and parcel of the game which I have experienced a lot of during my playing time. I think the agenda to turn football into a non contact sport is a contributory factor as it's now easier to get a player booked. I also blame the win at all costs "including your dignity" mentality that's come into the game.

As for what was said in this particular instance. Well of all the people to get on their high horses I have to laugh at Armagh. Armagh fans are definitly the most foul mouthed I've come across. I remember an Ulster final about 10-12 years ago I was in my mid teens and my cousin and I found ourselves standing in the hill in Clones surrounded by about 50 Armagh "men" who shouted abuse at us about "Londonderry" through the whole game. So they don't have my sympathy.

How can it be abuse if the official title of the county is Londonderry, Armagh may be part of the current UK but it isn't in Britain.

[Applesisapples]

http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/brolly-s-bites-north-men-south-men-comrades-all-my-arse-1-3674549

Published on Friday 30 March 2012 10:30

"I'm not prejudiced but if a c**n moved in next door, I'd move, like most white people would. If my daughter came home with a n****r, I'd go mad. But I'm only being truthful and normal."

So said Anfield legend Tommy Smith in an interview with author Dave Hill in 1988. At the time, black soccer players like Justin Fashanu and Cyril Regis were running the gauntlet. When they took to the field on Saturdays at 3pm, the stands erupted in gorilla chants. Bananas were thrown onto the field. When West Brom broke new ground by signing Regis, Laurie Cunningham and Brendan Bateson, they were promptly christened "The Three Degrees" and amended lyrics from the American group's hits were sung at every ground. When Regis was selected to play for England, he received a bullet in the post with a note reading: "If you play for us at Wembley, one of these will be shot into your knees, you black b******." This is racism.

The Armagh County Board last week accusing a Laois player of "racism" after he repeatedly taunted their captain Ciaran McKeever, alledgely branding him " a British b**tard" and shouting "God save the Queen" in his face. British? Affordable housing, safe banks, steady employment and a stable infrastructure? On one view, it's not much of an insult. And it isn't racism.

What it is however, is an unpleasant attack on the ethos of the GAA, betraying as it does a certain partitionist mentality. In his book, Big Joe Kernan recalls " One of the few times as Armagh manager I really lost my temper was in a league game against Laois. One Laois man, who was part of the official party squared up to John Rafferty and called us 'orange b*****ds'. While I should have laughed at it, I was infuriated. I felt like laying him out with a punch, but managed to restrain myself."

When Saint Mary's CBS Grammar school from Belfast played and defeated Doon CBS from Limerick in the colleges All-Ireland 'B' hurling semi-final a fortnight ago, the Belfast students complained afterwards that they were subjected to incessant racial abuse by the opposition. The father of one of the lads described in a local newspaper how when he went to celebrate with his son at the final whistle, he was told by one of the Doon players to "Go back to Britain and play your f***ing games up there."

It is a dirty secret. It is widespread. Yet the authorities pretend it doesn't exist. The hierarchy was reported to be "furious" at the Armagh Board's public statement, written by chairman Paul Duggan, a man of the utmost integrity. Yet his complaint, instead of sparking an immediate inquisition, was brushed under the carpet by Croke Park. Within a day, a very bland joint statement was released by the Armagh and Laois boards suggesting that nothing had really happened at all. Meanwhile Armagh's assistant manager Paul Grimley was pointing out that both the referee and the linesman spoke to the Laois player in question during the game and asked him to refrain. Can you imagine what would happen if the Ulster RFU alleged that Rory Best had been told to "Go back to Britain you orange b******d"during an interprovincial game at Donnybrook? The IRFU would come down on the culprit like a ton of bricks. Yet when the exact same thing happens in our game – and it happens all the time - it is buried.

There has always been a slightly uneasy relationship between elements of the Irish people north and south. After the Derrytresk/Dromid incident a few months ago, Joe Duffy had outraged southern-folk queuing up to vent to their spleen about those dirty northerners. Two "Liveline" shows were devoted to the scandal and still they jammed the switchboards, each new caller more indignant than the last. A man from Kildare summed up the mood when he suggested, "The Northern Ireland crowd should be told to play their football up in Northern Ireland."

A few days later, petrol was poured on the Dromid fire by the request from Dr Crokes' Killarney chairman Vincent Casey that their supporters be segregated from Crossmaglen's for their recent All-Ireland club semi-final. Casey had other demands: "We are also looking for an increased number of stewards at the venue and a bigger Garda presence than last Sunday." He seemed to think that Crossmaglen's supporters would be arriving sporting black berets, dark glasses and AK47s. It was of course nonsensical, but again, it illustrated a certain mindset.

Culturally, we are no doubt slightly different. In a way, northern Gaels are more ferocious about our Irishness because we had to fight harder for it. My father, a veteran republican, fluent Irish speaker and traditional musician steeped in all things Gaelic quipped to me during the week, " Don't be too hard on the southerners Joe, some of them are almost as Irish as we are." Our experience explains why we are far more fervent about our province than the other three. When I began working in RTE I was amazed that Cork people didn't support Kerry when they got out of Munster and Mayo folk didn't support Galway. Up here, we rally round whoever gets through because we feel we are all in it together. When Tyrone scored their killer goal in the 2005 final against Kerry, a Derry man sitting in the stand jumped up, punched the air in delight and roared, "Come on you Tyrone b******ds!"

In 1998, Michael McGimpsey, the Unionist Minister for Sport gave the IFA a £9million grant for the development of local soccer. The GAA – as was usual then - got nothing. The Ulster Council issued discrimination proceedings and the Department settled out of court for £6.7 million. The gates had been prised open and we have kept them open since. A high ranking official in Croke Park remarked snidely to me some years ago that, "You boys up there are experts at taking the Queen's shilling."

In 2009, ex Roscommon goalie Shane Curran, in his weekly column in the "Roscommon Champion" insisted the northern counties' success had little to do with ability- and more to do with financial assistance from the 'British' government. He wrote, "The emergence of the northern counties owes as much to the peace process and the financial assistance afforded to them by her Majesty than any real innovation. Money has played a significant part in the development of Tyrone and to a lesser extent Armagh." The fact that he felt secure enough to write this in an Irish paper speaks volumes.

When Martin McGuinness announced his presidential campaign, vitriol flowed. Appearing on RTE's Frontline he was asked by one young woman: "Why are you running in this election, you are not Irish, why do you not go back up north, you belong to a different state, this is the Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland".

When northern teams were winning nothing, coming down to get an annual hammering, we were patronised left, right and centre. "It's great to see ye keeping the game alive up there." When we started winning and winning regularly in the 90s and noughties, begrudgery was the new theme. Armagh were robots. Tyrone? Puke footballers. Suddenly, we are British b*****ds who should go back to the north.

Northmen, Southmen, comrades all my arse.

Brilliant post. What is overlooked in all of this is that the Statelet to which we were abandoned gave us nothing for 70 plus years. It doesn't matter if you pay your taxes in Punt, Euro, Stg or even Deutchmark you are entitled to your share. It has been quickly forgotton by some Southmen that Britain as a net contributer to Europe funded a lot of development in the south and whatever the motive stepped up to the plate with a bailout recently.

[Applesisapples]

The Londondery bit earlier was tongue in cheek, but there is a difference in the slagging that goes on in the crowd and the deliberate sledging of a player to get him sent off.

[haranguerer]

The Londondery bit earlier was tongue in cheek, but there is a difference in the slagging that goes on in the crowd and the deliberate sledging of a player to get him sent off.

Whats that then?

[bigloudmouth]

Fair play to Brolly - he tells it like it really is, one rule for the southerners and another for the nordies!! And the southeners really can't take it when the nordies beat them with Brolly highlighting the excuses offered by the Roscommon man which sounded so much like spillane when tyrone were beating kerry in all the big games. But at a much higher level you now have cooney pontificating about armagh goin to the press about the laois episode - where was cooney when dromid joe duffy's were goin to the press, as brolly says 'northmen, southmen, comrades all my arse'. No doubt if cross beat garrycastle they'll probably have done it because the army helped them train so hard for so many years - or some other ridiculous reason why the southeners can't match the professionalism of the nordies!!!!!!

Watch you back round rte (really trashy entertainers) Joe.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

While I've no doubt that the Armagh county board behaved with remarkable stupidity, I suppose its done no harm to get this issue out into the open a little more. Its not racism, its not the worst thing that happens in our sport but it is unpleasant and does grate slightly with those of us from the north.

I must say I'd missed that quote from Curran at the time. I'd always thought of him as an arrogant egotistical arsehole but it seems ignorant and idiotic should be added to that list.