Rangers FC to go into administration

[deiseach]

Of course I am. You're all about the business. I'm about the love of the game man.

I think when the dust has settled you'll feel a bit embarrassed by this one

[lynchbhoy]

what about Wimbledon and mk dons scenario ....?

that's more like the American franchise thing

does anyone think the new Wimbledon are the old one in any way?

[Boycey]

Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?

Because if you believe that clubs are about the essence and what supporters believe, then you are not going to be able to face down those who believe FC United of Manchester are the true spirit of Manchester United. The fact that the two clubs existed side-by-side is meaningless when you have faith.

Does such a person exist? Will such a person ever exist?

[deiseach]

Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?

Because if you believe that clubs are about the essence and what supporters believe, then you are not going to be able to face down those who believe FC United of Manchester are the true spirit of Manchester United. The fact that the two clubs existed side-by-side is meaningless when you have faith.

Does such a person exist? Will such a person ever exist?

Wind the clock back 20 years and pose to someone the possibility of Rangers going bust.

[AZOffaly]

Of course I am. You're all about the business. I'm about the love of the game man.

I think when the dust has settled you'll feel a bit embarrassed by this one

I really don't think so. I feel I must be explaining myself very poorly, because I cannot believe that someone who obviously loves the game, and 1 club in particular, would tie up their entire sense of identity of that club in whether or not company law sees it as the same legal entity or not.

I cannot believe that you would not consider a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge, as Liverpool, simply because the legal entity called Liverpool that was in place before ran into legal difficulties and was wound up.

[foxcommander]

There are a number of rules about football competitions, some regarding the playing of the games, some about the organization of the competition and some about the business side of the teams. Rangers broke the business rules very seriously and were punished by being expelled from the competition they were in. They were readmitted to a lower level of the competition with the same manager and many of the same players, the same fans and playing at the same stadium with the same name and same blue white and red colour scheme for their strip.

They are the same club.

I direct you to my reply above. Rangers were not demoted or expelled or anything like that. They went out of existence quite independently of any punishment they may have received from the SFA or SPL. And if they were 'readmitted', how do you explain Oldco getting to vote on Newco's application to the SPL?

The rangers that went bust should have had all their assets sold off to pay their debts.
That means selling their ground, training ground, player and even their teapots to settle what they owe.

even their trophies should have been sent off to be smelted to raise cash.

[Boycey]

Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?

Because if you believe that clubs are about the essence and what supporters believe, then you are not going to be able to face down those who believe FC United of Manchester are the true spirit of Manchester United. The fact that the two clubs existed side-by-side is meaningless when you have faith.

Does such a person exist? Will such a person ever exist?

Wind the clock back 20 years and pose to someone the possibility of Rangers going bust.

You're comparing apples and bicycles.....

[deiseach]

I really don't think so. I feel I must be explaining myself very poorly, because I cannot believe that someone who obviously loves the game, and 1 club in particular, would tie up their entire sense of identity of that club in whether or not company law sees it as the same legal entity or not.

I cannot believe that you would not consider a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge, as Liverpool, simply because the legal entity called Liverpool that was in place before ran into legal difficulties and was wound up.

If Liverpool FC got liquidated due to 'legal difficulties', a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge after it would be a zombie.

[AZOffaly]

And you would not see them as the same 'team' as what went before?

[deiseach]

And you would not see them as the same 'team' as what went before?

No. They got into "legal difficulties" for a reason. The new team would be a sham designed to get around that.

[AZOffaly]

And you would not see them as the same 'team' as what went before?

No. They got into "legal difficulties" for a reason. The new team would be a sham designed to get around that.

Fair enough. I would.

[Smokin Joe]

deiseach, in a football sense you are wrong.

Ask the average football fan the name of the limited company that is their football club.  I would guess that not many will actually know the company name.  They may well guess "Arsenal Football Club Limited" or the like but, generally, they wouldn't know the answer.

This is because the fans are invested in the club, its players, ethos and history, and not the legal entity that actually owns the whole shooting match.  The fans aren't being employed by the legal entity (as its employees are) so the actual legal entity is of pretty much no importance to them.

Whether you think (or even I) this is right or wrong doesn't really matter.  It's what the majority of football fans would think and that's why the banter and song singing will transfer from one legal entity to the next.  If you can't see that then you need to broaden your perspective a bit.

[brokencrossbar1]

I really don't think so. I feel I must be explaining myself very poorly, because I cannot believe that someone who obviously loves the game, and 1 club in particular, would tie up their entire sense of identity of that club in whether or not company law sees it as the same legal entity or not.

I cannot believe that you would not consider a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge, as Liverpool, simply because the legal entity called Liverpool that was in place before ran into legal difficulties and was wound up.

If Liverpool FC got liquidated due to 'legal difficulties', a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge after it would be a zombie.

This man would fit right in again then!!!

[deiseach]

This man would fit right in again then!!!

If that's what it takes, liquidate away!

[Boycey]

This man would fit right in again then!!!

If that's what it takes, liquidate away!

F**k me he couldn't wait to get away from Liverpool, he'd hardly come back to play for Liverpool "light"