Gay marriage

[The Iceman]

Eamonn, posting one video from youtube does not equate to evidence that gay couples provide a loving and valuable family.
I would point to us all, assuming we were all brought up in normal households (as I define the term and as God intended) that we turned out ok - is that not evidence enough that a hetrosexual set of parents are fit for the job? If God wanted two men to have children surely he would have equipped them with the bits and pieces to get the job done without the need for a woman?

I don't want the right to flaunt anything more that the PC brigade want the right to flaunt their opinions.
If laws have to be changed to appease the PC Brigade then why not changed to account for Christian's beliefs?
Why are the needs of Homosexuals and people who decide they are actually men born in women's bodies more important than mine?
Why should I be forced to go against my beliefs when every door has to be flung open for a love triangle of two men and one woman who call themselves a "family" and decide they want to adopt?

Am I saying that Gay couples cannot make good parents? NO
I am sure there are lots of examples and instances where they have. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it, it doesn't mean because the two lads you know from work have a lovely girl that they have tea parties with, that I have to applaud.

I have my beliefs and you have yours. My argument from the outset is that if you want your rights, then I am entitled to mine.

Can you elaborate and provide proof?

Check between your legs - you don't need a biology lesson surely?

[nifan]

If we take God out of the equation, do we believe in nature? Nature obviously designed children to be created by the coming together of a man and a woman, not a man and another man of woman and another woman.

This debate at the end of the day is all about the children and not the people looking to adopt. If there are plenty of hetro couples available to adopt then why consider Gay couples. Why experiment with the children. If it is not broken then why fix it? If Children are spending too much time in care I would suggest it is because the process of adoption is too slow.

Nature didnt design it for us to take kids from incapable parents and place them with ones who had been vetted for their ability to raise them - however thats what we are talking about here.
If we only did what nature "designed" we would have a very different existence to the one we have.

[heganboy]

If we take God out of the equation, do we believe in nature? Nature obviously designed children to be created by the coming together of a man and a woman, not a man and another man of woman and another woman.

the rebuttal is Intelligent Design?

getting funnier by the post...

nature didn't design the computer you are using to post this shite, please put it away and don't use it again

[The Iceman]

This is what happens here. I say three or four words and Eamonn translates that into a whole chapter.

Christian rights are being oppressed. I have pointed out two instances surrounding gay adoption and contraception.

The Gay community get oppressed and everyone is up in arms. But when Christians ask for exceptions - we're the worst in the world.

Eamonn you rant and rave at me here about presenting cases when you present one youtube video. Dissecting my posts and rearranging the words to suit your agenda doesn't make your position any stronger.

To address another point. Some heterosexuals are infertile. They are exceptions. That is not a case for Gay Marriage or Gay Adoption. "They can't have kids naturally and neither can we - see we're the same...... "

My overriding point throughout this entire conversation is the Church has as much right as any other group to fight for exceptions. I don't want to be forced into contributing towards contraception or abortive medicines if it goes against my religious beliefs. I don't believe employers should be forced either.

Argue away and fight away for Gay rights and whatever else you want to. But let me fight for mine too surely?

[J70]

So you boys are settling on the "experimenting on children" argument now that your other arguments have failed??

[Rois]

A neighbour of ours from home (who now lives in London) is gay, and he and his partner adopted a little 2 year old boy a few months ago.  They'd been going through the process for a number of years and got the good news in 2011. 
I met him at Christmas - the (adorable) wee guy gets limitless love from his adoptive parents - one has given up his job to be a full time parent. 

Can't be bothered arguing any of the points, but this child will have a loving and warm environment in which to grow up.  And we'll make him into a Tyrone fan when he comes back to visit his granny, aunts and uncles.

[J70]

Iceman, we all contribute moeny to things we don't agree with. Its part of living in a modern society.

Asking for exemptions from anti-discrimination rules is not a fight against oppression. I'm sure some white South Africans and northern Unionists FELT oppressed when their institutional or non-official discrimination rules were rolled back, but it doesn't make it so.

And on the exemptions thing, I've asked this already but I'll try again: if I worked for a Jehovah's Witness-owned company, would it be all right for them to omit blood transfusions from my health plan?

[EC Unique]

So you boys are settling on the "experimenting on children" argument now that your other arguments have failed??

What has failed?

[The Iceman]

Iceman, we all contribute moeny to things we don't agree with. Its part of living in a modern society.

Asking for exemptions from anti-discrimination rules is not a fight against oppression. I'm sure some white South Africans and northern Unionists FELT oppressed when their institutional or non-official discrimination rules were rolled back, but it doesn't make it so.

And on the exemptions thing, I've asked this already but I'll try again: if I worked for a Jehovah's Witness-owned company, would it be all right for them to omit blood transfusions from my health plan?

J70 I think you would have a strong case and I honestly would support and respect your stance.
Paying and contributing towards Abortive medicines goes against everything I stand for. Even if I wasn't religious, I couldn't be part of it.

[Maguire01]

To address another point. Some heterosexuals are infertile. They are exceptions. That is not a case for Gay Marriage or Gay Adoption. "They can't have kids naturally and neither can we - see we're the same...... "

But it was you who made the argument that God hadn't intended gay couples to be parents. Then surely he hadn't intended infertile couples to be parents either(?) So if we base adoption policy on 'God's intentions', then infertile couples are no more entitled to adopt than gay couples. Or have you moved on from that dead end?

[J70]

So you boys are settling on the "experimenting on children" argument now that your other arguments have failed??

What has failed?

The oppression and "I just feel this way because I feel this way" type of arguments. There hasn't been much in the way of logic or evidence, that's for sure.

[Maguire01]

This debate at the end of the day is all about the children and not the people looking to adopt. If there are plenty of hetro couples available to adopt then why consider Gay couples. Why experiment with the children. If it is not broken then why fix it? If Children are spending too much time in care I would suggest it is because the process of adoption is too slow.

That's a lot if 'ifs'!

Would you consider it an experiment for a white couple to adopt an african or asian child? Would you be opposed to that?

And as there have been cases of gay couples raising children already, it's really no more of an experiment than placing children with a straight couple who have never looked after a child before. I have seen no evidence to suggest that one of these couples would do a better/worse job of raising a child than the other.

[Maguire01]

If laws have to be changed to appease the PC Brigade then why not changed to account for Christian's beliefs?

It's not about changing the law to appease 'the PC Brigade'; it's to provide equality / end discrimination.

[heganboy]

What has failed?

your education and "thought" process

[EC Unique]

What has failed?

your education and "thought" process

Must you bring it down to the level of personal insult on such a serious matter

It is obvious that I will not convince some people that hetro couples are more naturally suited to raising children that gay couples. Like wise I will not be swayed..