Greatest Soccer player of all time?

[Orangemac]

In champ man it was Ibrahima bakayoko

Must have been where Everton scouted him from. Missed a header from 6 yards out on his debut v Liverpool in the 1st minute and never recovered from it.

[Aerlik]

Ex-Walsall reserves and Larchfield Gardens, Kilrea, dribbling maestro...the one and only Brian Johnson.    Dazzling to say the least, and with a Tennants Super in the right hand and an Embassy Regal in the left.

A close second, Diego Armando Maradona.

[ziggy90]

In this order.
1 Trevor Francis
2 Kevin Francis
3 Maradona Francis
4 Messi Francis
5 Assisi Francis

[moysider]

The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.

Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.

It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.

Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem

[GalwayBayBoy]

Sports Illustrated did an interesting piece on operating an NFL style draft but using all the best footballers from past or present.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/draft/ultimate/draft-results.html

[muppet]

The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.

Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.

It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.

Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem

And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?

[the Deel Rover]

The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.

Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.

It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.

Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem

And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?

i was watching a documentary about Garrincha last week pretty  sure it said Pele got injured in the group stages that year . Garrincha was player of the tournament it said he got 2 yellows against England in the Semis but still played in the Final (don't know how that happened)  and scored 2 goals in the final. Even seeing the old clips he was some player . He had a foundness for the women and the beer he died aged 52 .

[muppet]

The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.

Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.

It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.

Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem

And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?

i was watching a documentary about Garrincha last week pretty  sure it said Pele got injured in the group stages that year . Garrincha was player of the tournament it said he got 2 yellows against England in the Semis but still played in the Final (don't know how that happened)  and scored 2 goals in the final. Even seeing the old clips he was some player . He had a foundness for the women and the beer he died aged 52 .

He got injured because they kicked the living crap out of him. Back in those days there was no sympathy for anything other than amputation.

[the Deel Rover]

Brazil never lost any game that Pele and Garrincha started together . Teams were kicking lumps out of the pair of them . 

[moysider]

Brazil never lost any game that Pele and Garrincha started together . Teams were kicking lumps out of the pair of them .

Trying to in the case of Garrincha. I d say few got near him and he came up the hard way as well. People can talk about greatness but Brazilians called him The Joy of The People. It says a lot. That s a special kind of greatness that transcends sport and very few sportsmen ever had that. Garrincha got it from his own, and he made the lives of millions of bet-down people brighter. He was technically as good if not better than Best or Pele as well. Ok, he wasn t on the fleet street radar but British opinion is not the be all...... English press also used Pele to reflect glory back on themselves. England 1970 were a superior team than that that won in 66. I think most people would readily agree with that. The heat in Mexico did for them as much as Brazil did. England were brilliant that day it has to be said and it was written up as one of the great British glorious failures, like Gordon of Khartoum, Scott of the Antartic, Mallory, Light Brigade, etc. Pele was cast in the role of the noble antagonist - even though he did not exactly destroy them (the heat and daft management did).Lets face it, the hacks in the press don t rate the readers intelligence. To hell with Gerson and Revelino and Carlos Alberto - lets keep it simple and focus on four-letter Pele. Banks making a fine save from a Pele was the icing on the cake for a great story where everybody won... but not really.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_V6y5P050M

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4957302614168326714#

[muppet]

I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.

[moysider]

The only person who can genuinely comment on such a discussion is someone who spent time in Brazil during the 60s, where he watched Pele and the quality of his opposition a lot, who is also around today and has watched Messi with a similar eye.

Pele was undoubtedly an extraordinary footballer; 1,000 goals is such a rare achievement.

It's easy to believe that scoring goals in football is more difficult these days, but there's no real evidence. It's just the standard of opposition that counts.

Brazilians often go for Garrincha as the greatest. He was gone by 1970 though when tv had become widespread in Europe, so wouldn t have been as well known over here. Garrincha dragged a Peleless Brazil to World Cup glory in 62 as sinlehandedly as Maradonna did Argentina in 86 in Mexico. The 1970 s Brazil team had many greats in their own right like Carlos Alberto, Revelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.
While Pele was undoubtedly one of the greatest he was also a pet of the British press - a bit like Ali. He was clean cut and approachable and always gave them what they wanted to hear. Even still he is quoted as fancying England to win before every world cup. Garrincha on the other hand was a deformed illiterate Indio with a drink problem

And tell us why Brazil were Pele-less that year?

Kicked up in the air once too often.

It s the thing that is emphasised every time those finals are mentioned. Pele being injured is the theme rather than Garrincha s brilliant tournament. It s the 'local' view. 4 years on and Eusebio is kicked up in the air by Nobby Stiles but the hatchet job is presented as His tough performance resulted in Eusébio being practically nullified for the entire.....    Nullified my hole.

The Argentinian captain Ratin was earlier sent off in the 66 tournament and Ramsey called the Argentinians 'animals'. Indeed. So much double standards. Pele gettin kicked is pesented as thuggery by the press while Eusebio has always been portrayed since as somebody that hadn t the stomach for it. Hmmmm.

And of course long haired Argies and 'Continentals' are untrustworty. Too flash, might fall down when kicked, and might use tactics and formations that we jolly well are not used too. Very unsporting altogether.

[moysider]

I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.

I m sure you can think for yourself. But I suspect that you re in a minority.

[Billys Boots]

I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.

I m sure you can think for yourself. But I suspect that you re in a minority.

World Cup histories not (originally) written in English tend to be very different in content and focus from those originating from Fleet Street's finest. 

[brokencrossbar1]

I pray for the day that I can think for myself, without instruction from England.

That is a freedom you will never know, a bit like your County colleague Enda Heseltine.