Antrim Football Thread

[Rawhide]

Schools! Schools! Schools! That is why we are behind in development, any other answer is a by-product. We need a strong school in Belfast and a strong school in the SW. We need schools going out and bringing our best P7s to that school and developing them from there based on ability and promise, not club.

SW clubs are leading the way in Antrim at the minute and that's from exposure to that level, but we need a school where we aren't competing with Derry players and Antrim reaps all the benefit of players being developed. I was told 25 years ago by a prominent Armagh man this was our issue - and it still is today.

I must say this complete rubbish. The quality of coaching at club level in your youth, on the whole is not at the level required. No strategy to improve it. Nor will it improve in the absence of one, it rinse and repeat for years upon years.

[Brendan]

Looking at it from a North Derry perspective the schools defnitly has a big impact, the only clubs in North Derry who are senior/strong intermediate, Dungiven and Banagher have kids going over the Glenshane to St. Pats, then steelstown would have kids at st columbs college who have been relly pushing the GAA the last few years. Places like Faughanvale, Drumsurn, Ballerin don't have soccer or hurling distractions but are going nowhere fast because the children aren't going to strong football schools

[AllStar15]

Schools! Schools! Schools! That is why we are behind in development, any other answer is a by-product. We need a strong school in Belfast and a strong school in the SW. We need schools going out and bringing our best P7s to that school and developing them from there based on ability and promise, not club.

SW clubs are leading the way in Antrim at the minute and that's from exposure to that level, but we need a school where we aren't competing with Derry players and Antrim reaps all the benefit of players being developed. I was told 25 years ago by a prominent Armagh man this was our issue - and it still is today.

I must say this complete rubbish. The quality of coaching at club level in your youth, on the whole is not at the level required. No strategy to improve it. Nor will it improve in the absence of one, it rinse and repeat for years upon years.

You are deluded. It's the same Ulster coaching clinics that everyone goes to, and the Antrim contingent is always strong at them, as I have been to plenty over the years. So why is it all other counties come away better coaches but Antrim's don't? Every county in Ulster has at least one strong GAA school, except Antrim.

Aghagallon and the Derry side of Antrim have all come on leaps and bounds these past 5/10 years - if you dont think the proximity to strong schools has anything to do with then I've a bridge to Scotland to sell you.

[bannside]

The great thing about schools that take their GAA ethos really seriously is that the programme starts the first week in the gate at year eight.

A school that offers 8 hours a week across a mixture of training/matches/S&C/pilates/yoga/ diet and nutritional advice will produce a much better individual...than say a school that offers x2 hours a week across the same spectrum of activity.

It's basic maths.

Across 40 weeks and 7 years it's 2240 man hours versus 560 man hours.

Obviously not an exact science, but a blind man should see the difference a full on school can make to player development versus a school going through the motions.

Then do the same exercise across a progressive club versus a club taking short cuts.

It's all about the work, and as Duine says, the level of apathy in some Antrim schools and clubs is appalling.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

The great thing about schools that take their GAA ethos really seriously is that the programme starts the first week in the gate at year eight.

A school that offers 8 hours a week across a mixture of training/matches/S&C/pilates/yoga/ diet and nutritional advice will produce a much better individual...than say a school that offers x2 hours a week across the same spectrum of activity.

It's basic maths.

Across 40 weeks and 7 years it's 2240 man hours versus 560 man hours.

Obviously not an exact science, but a blind man should see the difference a full on school can make to player development versus a school going through the motions.

Then do the same exercise across a progressive club versus a club taking short cuts.

It's all about the work, and as Duine says, the level of apathy in some Antrim schools and clubs is appalling.

I didn't say that.

The issue is the apathy in our communities. Gaelic football isn't a big deal in a lot of them. Kids don't really care and their parents don't value it and if that school programme was available to them they simply wouldn't go.
They struggle to buy into the couple of hours a week. They don't value it that highly.

[BelSaft]

Cahair O'Kane impressed with Cargin at the weekend anyway

[Would ye whist]

Completely agree Duine, the problem is Antrim is not the hotbed for GAA we would all like to believe, a lot of parents do not give a dam and this feeds through to their kids............I hear my son giving off that parents use the underage training as a babysitting service and they cannot barely get a parent to help to set out/gather in cones as the drop the kid off, drive away and come back an hour later to collect. If the parents are showing they don't care about the kid training how will the kid?

The great thing about schools that take their GAA ethos really seriously is that the programme starts the first week in the gate at year eight.

A school that offers 8 hours a week across a mixture of training/matches/S&C/pilates/yoga/ diet and nutritional advice will produce a much better individual...than say a school that offers x2 hours a week across the same spectrum of activity.

It's basic maths.

Across 40 weeks and 7 years it's 2240 man hours versus 560 man hours.

Obviously not an exact science, but a blind man should see the difference a full on school can make to player development versus a school going through the motions.

Then do the same exercise across a progressive club versus a club taking short cuts.

It's all about the work, and as Duine says, the level of apathy in some Antrim schools and clubs is appalling.

I didn't say that.

The issue is the apathy in our communities. Gaelic football isn't a big deal in a lot of them. Kids don't really care and their parents don't value it and if that school programme was available to them they simply wouldn't go.
They struggle to buy into the couple of hours a week. They don't value it that highly.

[bannside]

While some Antrim schools and clubs try to put their best foot forward, I think it's fair to say many are simply going through the motions. Pretty much falls into the apathy department in my book. Not trying to be critical of the dedicated coaches out there doing their utmost, but if the support structure isn't there it's an uphill task!

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

The uphill task is that the general public in our county, including lots of those who play our games, don't actually really care that much or really aspire to play at the highest level and have little interest in putting in the effort to be able to compete with the likes of Tyrone or Derry.
I don't know how we change the hearts and minds on that. I don't know how a school, club or any support structure goes about changing that. Maybe it's a mix of apathy, inferiority complex, culture but football isn't on the agenda of a lot of our playing population (and their families) in the same way as it is on the agenda of the playing population (and their families) of Tyrone & Derry.
I'd say you could dump 20 coaches from Tyrone underage structures into clubs and schools in Belfast and Tyrone and Derry would still beat the living daylights out of us.

[InnocentByStander]

The great thing about schools that take their GAA ethos really seriously is that the programme starts the first week in the gate at year eight.

A school that offers 8 hours a week across a mixture of training/matches/S&C/pilates/yoga/ diet and nutritional advice will produce a much better individual...than say a school that offers x2 hours a week across the same spectrum of activity.

It's basic maths.

Across 40 weeks and 7 years it's 2240 man hours versus 560 man hours.

Obviously not an exact science, but a blind man should see the difference a full on school can make to player development versus a school going through the motions.

Then do the same exercise across a progressive club versus a club taking short cuts.

It's all about the work, and as Duine says, the level of apathy in some Antrim schools and clubs is appalling.

I didn't say that.

The issue is the apathy in our communities. Gaelic football isn't a big deal in a lot of them. Kids don't really care and their parents don't value it and if that school programme was available to them they simply wouldn't go.
They struggle to buy into the couple of hours a week. They don't value it that highly.

GAA is everything in Toome and maybe thats why Cargin are so far ahead.
I agree but i think its mainly the city that has that outlook as there are many more distractions. But its exactly why Antrim will never be good. I'd say Antrim underage football isnt far off the worst in the country at the moment. Its also clear Antrim people dont care about football enough  is not cared about  by the attendances at championship matches unless its a SF or Final the attendances are usually poor. Go to Ownebeg for any group game in derry championship and its a packed house.

[Rawhide]

Schools! Schools! Schools! That is why we are behind in development, any other answer is a by-product. We need a strong school in Belfast and a strong school in the SW. We need schools going out and bringing our best P7s to that school and developing them from there based on ability and promise, not club.

SW clubs are leading the way in Antrim at the minute and that's from exposure to that level, but we need a school where we aren't competing with Derry players and Antrim reaps all the benefit of players being developed. I was told 25 years ago by a prominent Armagh man this was our issue - and it still is today.

I must say this complete rubbish. The quality of coaching at club level in your youth, on the whole is not at the level required. No strategy to improve it. Nor will it improve in the absence of one, it rinse and repeat for years upon years.

You are deluded. It's the same Ulster coaching clinics that everyone goes to, and the Antrim contingent is always strong at them, as I have been to plenty over the years. So why is it all other counties come away better coaches but Antrim's don't? Every county in Ulster has at least one strong GAA school, except Antrim.

Aghagallon and the Derry side of Antrim have all come on leaps and bounds these past 5/10 years - if you dont think the proximity to strong schools has anything to do with then I've a bridge to Scotland to sell you.

Not remotely deluded. I live this stuff day in and out. Talk and coach at the cold face. Go and talk to the Lockharts or Ronan Devlins. The skill levels of kids coming into both schools at first year are incredible. The improvement in club coaching in south Derry has steadily improved over the past 15 yrs. a remodeled launch of the development squads ten yrs complimented this progress. Remember Derry u17s have in the past 4 yrs been in two recent All Ireland minor finals, that's 18 months before MacRory. Dublins emphasises was and still is on primary schools and then club upskilling. There is no doubt up to 10-15 yrs years ago the coaching in the secondary school was critical for us, and it still is, but it is not near as important as it was before, due to the quality coaching education going on in the clubs.

[bannside]

Love your thinking Rawhide, said it here dozens of times. CLUBs have to take the main responsibility for player development.

[Caesar]

I have posted this before but here's a link to 'Derry GAA - Coaching and Development Strategy 2021 - 2026'

https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/the-story-behind-derry-football-s-resurgence/?fbclid=IwAR3ajz-OGvQ05EOEWDil6XTYEZ04_U2Zj6JdQNCAfnBUgv6KfSuBbedxbXk

Follow the link and you will see the full 20 page PDF.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Schools! Schools! Schools! That is why we are behind in development, any other answer is a by-product. We need a strong school in Belfast and a strong school in the SW. We need schools going out and bringing our best P7s to that school and developing them from there based on ability and promise, not club.

SW clubs are leading the way in Antrim at the minute and that's from exposure to that level, but we need a school where we aren't competing with Derry players and Antrim reaps all the benefit of players being developed. I was told 25 years ago by a prominent Armagh man this was our issue - and it still is today.

I must say this complete rubbish. The quality of coaching at club level in your youth, on the whole is not at the level required. No strategy to improve it. Nor will it improve in the absence of one, it rinse and repeat for years upon years.

You are deluded. It's the same Ulster coaching clinics that everyone goes to, and the Antrim contingent is always strong at them, as I have been to plenty over the years. So why is it all other counties come away better coaches but Antrim's don't? Every county in Ulster has at least one strong GAA school, except Antrim.

Aghagallon and the Derry side of Antrim have all come on leaps and bounds these past 5/10 years - if you dont think the proximity to strong schools has anything to do with then I've a bridge to Scotland to sell you.

Schools are not going to pull us out of the mire we are in. Being regularly competitive in the MacRory Cup or any A football would be fantastic and would help to push us on but we are 10 stages before that in the here and now. There is so much to be done to get there and it's not what happens in the school that's going to make the difference.

You could second Foncie McConnell, Diarmaid McNulty, Dinky McBride and anyone else to any Antrim school but they aren't going to make an Omagh CBS out of them. That's not to say that these people don't put things in place to allow Omagh to be successful, they absolutely do but the fundamental behind their success is that they have the luxury of feeding off lots of communities that quite simply live and breathe football. Without that, they aren't getting anywhere near back to back MacRory Cups.

Our schools don't have that luxury. Someone mentioned a few posts ago that the Cargin/Toome community live for football and that's fair but Omagh have maybe 15 or so communities like this feeding their school. Among them; Dromore, Trillick, Omagh, Carrickmore, Loughmacrory, Killyclogher, Ballygawley (at times). All top clubs in Tyrone. And that's not to discredit the other great clubs feeding them as well. The kids in these communities are busting to go to Omagh CBS for the football.

So, while schools can always do more to strengthen and support football, any suggestion that the schools in Antrim are in a position to even think about lining out on the same field as the above on any sort of regular basis just isn't plausible.

[marty34]

Schools! Schools! Schools! That is why we are behind in development, any other answer is a by-product. We need a strong school in Belfast and a strong school in the SW. We need schools going out and bringing our best P7s to that school and developing them from there based on ability and promise, not club.

SW clubs are leading the way in Antrim at the minute and that's from exposure to that level, but we need a school where we aren't competing with Derry players and Antrim reaps all the benefit of players being developed. I was told 25 years ago by a prominent Armagh man this was our issue - and it still is today.

I must say this complete rubbish. The quality of coaching at club level in your youth, on the whole is not at the level required. No strategy to improve it. Nor will it improve in the absence of one, it rinse and repeat for years upon years.

You are deluded. It's the same Ulster coaching clinics that everyone goes to, and the Antrim contingent is always strong at them, as I have been to plenty over the years. So why is it all other counties come away better coaches but Antrim's don't? Every county in Ulster has at least one strong GAA school, except Antrim.

Aghagallon and the Derry side of Antrim have all come on leaps and bounds these past 5/10 years - if you dont think the proximity to strong schools has anything to do with then I've a bridge to Scotland to sell you.

Schools are not going to pull us out of the mire we are in. Being regularly competitive in the MacRory Cup or any A football would be fantastic and would help to push us on but we are 10 stages before that in the here and now. There is so much to be done to get there and it's not what happens in the school that's going to make the difference.

You could second Foncie McConnell, Diarmaid McNulty, Dinky McBride and anyone else to any Antrim school but they aren't going to make an Omagh CBS out of them. That's not to say that these people don't put things in place to allow Omagh to be successful, they absolutely do but the fundamental behind their success is that they have the luxury of feeding off lots of communities that quite simply live and breathe football. Without that, they aren't getting anywhere near back to back MacRory Cups.

Our schools don't have that luxury. Someone mentioned a few posts ago that the Cargin/Toome community live for football and that's fair but Omagh have maybe 15 or so communities like this feeding their school. Among them; Dromore, Trillick, Omagh, Carrickmore, Loughmacrory, Killyclogher, Ballygawley (at times). All top clubs in Tyrone. And that's not to discredit the other great clubs feeding them as well. The kids in these communities are busting to go to Omagh CBS for the football.

So, while schools can always do more to strengthen and support football, any suggestion that the schools in Antrim are in a position to even think about lining out on the same field as the above on any sort of regular basis just isn't plausible.

I think if you look closer to home than Omagh. Look straight across the bridge in Toome to south Derry.

Look at the strong division 1 clubs from the Bann to the edge of the Sperrins.  All have that strong culture of working and producing talent at underage.

Be good to see the senior, U20 and minor Derry starting teams. I'd hazard a guess that they'd be 95% south Derry players.

Before anyone gives out, that's just a reality, not just at senior level but at U20 and minor level.  There's a culture there be built by parents, clubs and by the county itself.  It's hard work but starting to produce results.

Hard to know how Antrim get to that level but if you think of Cargin, Creggan and Portglenone etc., there's clubs in the SW who are building that culture.

No point in talking about secondary schools.  It starts with the clubs, then primary then secondary. Maghera and Magherafelt are boosted by SW Antrim players and that's helped them. Geographically, it suits these players to go into these south Derry schools.