The demise of the Catholic faith in Ireland

[Tony Baloney]

Married in a church? Children baptised in a church?

Questions, not statements.

Alot of the old stories from the bible are hard to swallow to be fair and the church can't exactly find a new book from some apostle which is a bit more current so does it make me a bad catholic that I would pick and choose which parts I hear are a little more feasible than other parts? but in general the whole thing makes alot of sense.

The whole thing is very complicated for everyone I suppose.

'A la carte' Catholic is the term (I believe Ulick) uses and it is a fairly good description. So Sammy we can safely assume that sex before marriage and use of condoms are total no-nos?

In my eyes it isn't complicated at all, you follow the teachings of the church to the letter or you don't. I don't believe the Vatican have issued anything stating you can pick and choose the bits you believe in and forget about the difficult parts that may impact on your lifestyle.

[muppet]

I'm not sure the title is the most accurate description, swap the word 'Church' with the word 'Faith'.

Faith might be an accurate enough description, anyone here actually believe everything they recite in the Nicene Creed every Sunday?

Given that the above used to be in Latin, I don't think faith was the real issue as our ancestors could't have known what it was really. They were generally uneducated and it was in Latin. Hence I'm not sure it is the 'faith' that is in demise.

God from God,
Light from light,
True God from true God,
Begotten not made,
Of one being with the Father.

Tell me, what are we saying there exactly. Ecumenically speaking of course.

[Arthur_Friend]

I'm not sure the title is the most accurate description, swap the word 'Church' with the word 'Faith'.

Faith might be an accurate enough description, anyone here actually believe everything they recite in the Nicene Creed every Sunday?

That's if you're not outside in the porch talking about the beer from the previous night

I don't know what you mean Tony, I always sit right up at the front paying attention 

[The Boy Wonder]

Let's hope the slide accelerates and this cancer of an organisation vanishes for good.

Idiot.

Bigot might be more apt.

I agree with Myles. Why would you call us idiots and bigots?

Because they have spent their lives being brainwashed. They don't know that you can believe in god without belonging to a church. They don't believe you can be critical of their church without being a bigot against everyone in that church. Most of all they are unable to accept that priests in their church raped children and worse still their bishops, cardinals and popes covered it up. Sammy - if I'm to rot in hell there will be plenty of "good" Catholics down their to keep me company.

Anyone with a different view point of yours is brainwashed eh?

You don't seem to believe someone could have faith in the Catholic church and still be critical of it. And there are some who refuse to see the good that it can do as well.

No - I was referring to people who respond to me being critical of the catholic church by calling me an idiot or a bigot. Please pay attention.

So anyone who objects to their Church being labelled as "this cancer of an organisation" is brainwashed ?
I found this description of the Catholic church offensive and bigoted.

[mylestheslasher]

Boy wonder, wrong again. I presume you can read so try again.

[J70]

A decline in participation in the catholic church and faith itself is something to be applauded.

[Myles Na G.]

Should you ride the neighbour when you sometimes want to?

No, unless you are both free to do so. Otherwise it may cause hurt to many people and that's not a good thing to have to deal with. Trust me. I can't go near Hardstation's cul de sac.

Haven't come across that euphemism before.

[SLIGONIAN]

Let's hope the slide accelerates and this cancer of an organisation vanishes for good.

Idiot.

Bigot might be more apt.

I agree with Myles. Why would you call us idiots and bigots?

Because they have spent their lives being brainwashed. They don't know that you can believe in god without belonging to a church. They don't believe you can be critical of their church without being a bigot against everyone in that church. Most of all they are unable to accept that priests in their church raped children and worse still their bishops, cardinals and popes covered it up. Sammy - if I'm to rot in hell there will be plenty of "good" Catholics down their to keep me company.

Anyone with a different view point of yours is brainwashed eh?

You don't seem to believe someone could have faith in the Catholic church and still be critical of it. And there are some who refuse to see the good that it can do as well.

No - I was referring to people who respond to me being critical of the catholic church by calling me an idiot or a bigot. Please pay attention.

So anyone who objects to their Church being labelled as "this cancer of an organisation" is brainwashed ?
I found this description of the Catholic church offensive and bigoted.

What if your wrong about the catholic church? I was an alterboy for 4 yrs and very religious when i was a teenager but i couldnt turn a blind over the actions of the church, the false rules and power and satanic abuse of children, whos conscience could, yours? Of course over the yrs i questioned and questioned, i do believe a man named jesus lived and did some things but the catholic church for me exagerrated them for there own gain and power. The cover up of the abuse, the abuse, the riches of rome, the power, what else could anyone call it, satanic would be my words, what would yours be to describe it. You dont need the catholic church to be a catholic you know and Just think of your kid being abused, would you still stand by the church?

[The Boy Wonder]

I'm not just batting for the Catholic church here - I think people should avoid gratutious abuse of Christian and non-Christian religions. I fully understand why people leave the Catholic church because of the evil that has occurred. However the vast majority of the clergy and laity had no part in the wrongoing nor the cover-up. Some people seem to think there is guilt by association, i.e. if you don't abandon the Catholic church you are somehow condoning the wrongs that occurred.

Re. the subject of this thread - the demise of the Catholic faith in Ireland. Change is happening. There are child safeguarding procedures now in operation in every parish. It is inevitable that authority and control over church affairs will gradually pass from clergy to laity. I would expect at some stage in the future that married people and women will be ordained.

[theskull1]

anyone who objects to their Church being labelled as "this cancer of an organisation" is brainwashed ?
I found this description of the Catholic church offensive and bigoted.

In light of the child abuse cover ups which have happened on a global scale, would you mind elaborating as to why it offends you if anyone considers it a 'cancer of an organisation' for this very reason. It would appear that the devout want to brush these realities under the rug rather than upset their masters.

I'd say such people were brainwashed

[tyssam5]

The slide started with bishop Casey's cub.

[theskull1]

I'm not just batting for the Catholic church here - I think people should avoid gratutious abuse of Christian and non-Christian religions. I fully understand why people leave the Catholic church because of the evil that has occurred. However the vast majority of the clergy and laity had no part in the wrongoing nor the cover-up. Some people seem to think there is guilt by association, i.e. if you don't abandon the Catholic church you are somehow condoning the wrongs that occurred.

Re. the subject of this thread - the demise of the Catholic faith in Ireland. Change is happening. There are child safeguarding procedures now in operation in every parish. It is inevitable that authority and control over church affairs will gradually pass from clergy to laity. I would expect at some stage in the future that married people and women will be ordained.

The church has only been interested in itself throughout and has been dragged kicking and screaming towards acknowleging what they have known for decades (possibly centuries) regarding the abuse they covered up. And yet you want this organization to guide your spiritual journey through life. I find it disturbing that so many have chosen to legitimise this corrupt organization by sticking with it in silence as they wait for further instruction.

[The Boy Wonder]

anyone who objects to their Church being labelled as "this cancer of an organisation" is brainwashed ?
I found this description of the Catholic church offensive and bigoted.

In light of the child abuse cover ups which have happened on a global scale, would you mind elaborating as to why it offends you if anyone considers it a 'cancer of an organisation' for this very reason. It would appear that the devout want to brush these realities under the rug rather than upset their masters.

I'd say such people were brainwashed

I'm just an ordinary Joe Soap who wouldn't be considered particularly devout and I'm not trying to brush anything under the carpet. A large section of the population are choosing to remain practicing Catholics.  We don't profess to be better people than those who choose not to be part of a formal church or religion. Consider us part of a "cancerous organisation" if you wish. We are not setting out to cause damage to society. I would have more respect for a person that calls my religion poppycock that one who calls it cancerous.

[muppet]

Religion is failing for the same reason Communism failed and the same reason Capitalism is collapsing: Some of the people who seek power in any of those ideologies are the last people you want in charge.

[theskull1]

 

Consider us part of a "cancerous organisation" if you wish. We are not setting out to cause damage to society. I would have more respect for a person that calls my religion poppycock that one who calls it cancerous.

The religion imo is poppycock and the organization cancerous. What's wrong with just leading a purpose driven life which is how humanists approach things?