americas problem with communism?

[lawnseed]

I love this argument that all those failed Communist countries were doing it wrong. Does that not apply to those countries who screwed up capitalism?

4father are you seriously saying that we should remodel ourselves as Cuba (GDP per capita <$10,000) or Bolivia (GDP per capita $4,600)?

muppet can i just take you back to the cuban case. you are correct cubas gdp is low but they have been isolated and at the mercy of the yanks for over 30 years and we know what that means- dirty tricks and subversion ala honduras panama haiti etc... also in the sixties and seventies the yanks regulary threatened cubas neighbours with nuclear attack. given that most american hospitals rely heavily on cuban trained doctors from agencies i'd say they're not doing too badly your healths your wealth etc.. infact in alot of cases it would be cheaper for us to send our sick over to cuba to have them treated we could throw in a relative or two and still be cheaper and quicker than paying irish consultants and i can tell you that cuban hospitals arent closed with the winter vomiting bug. in fact i've suggested it to our health minister in a letter recently when it was pointed out how nordies were being jumped up the queue in priivate hospitals in dublin at the taxpayers expense for heart operations and our southern brothers were dying for the want of treatment while operating theatres here are mothballed. i suggest you see the docudrama 'sicko' for an insight. btw cuba i hear is very good for holidays

[4father]

I love this argument that all those failed Communist countries were doing it wrong. Does that not apply to those countries who screwed up capitalism?

4father are you seriously saying that we should remodel ourselves as Cuba (GDP per capita <$10,000) or Bolivia (GDP per capita $4,600)?

Again, its another lazy analysis.  Cuba, Venezuela, and Bolivia are countries who adopted and embraced socialism coming from centuries of cruel ruling classes where poverty, disease, hunger were more common than not.  Come on, use your nut.

Cuba, practically a third world country surrounded by islands of mass poverty and hunger like Haiti, Jamaica etc, has a infant mortality rate and life expectancy rate that rivals our own here in Ireland, in the UK, the USA, France etc.  It has nothing but its sugar canes to sell but can't because of the embargo imposed on it by the World Trade Organisation (otherwise known as the USA) but still maintains that type of record.  Its remarkable for such a poor country.  What it has done correctly and why it should be used as an example by Western countries and without a shadow of a doubt our own is that its priorities are in the right place.  The first programme for government was a literacy and numeracy one (the same example that Hugo Chavez in Venezuela and Evo Morales in Bolivia have followed).

GDP means nothing when people can barely afford a loaf of bread.  The aforementioned countries are coming from a harder place than we are to implement socialism and fairness.  In Ireland, we have lots to export, lots of wealth in the country.  Imagine if that wealth was distributed properly and equally so that everyone is given the opportunity. 

If Socialism was introduced in Ireland and embraced by the people, the GDP would rise significantly and the cost of living would drop.  Simple economics.

Everything you described in those countries was far worse worse here. Come on, use your nut!

We now (despite everything) have a GDP of >$40,000. You think Communism would raise that? Cuba has more natural resources than we have (the great gas giveaway accepted) and they haven't raised their GDP.

And you called my analysis lazy. You need to read more and listen to the bar stool experts less.

This is getting ridiculous. Have you any idea of the poverty ans living conditions that existed in Bolivia or Cuba pre socialism? Obviously not.  But poverty is relative anyway. It still exists here.

You are so obsessed with GDP as a means to assess the wealth of a nation. Its a mean sum. So for every millionaire in Ireland, there are thousands on the dole or earning much much less than the average GDP.  I know you know this but most people dont earn 40,000 in Ireland!  Come on, use your nut.

There is no comparison between Cuba and Ireland.  One has nothing and has an embargo on it which limits its trade greatly but still, through prioritising the people before the profit, manages to maintain health rates that rival the developed countries in the world and have an unemployment rate of 0%.   The other is in the EU and is committed through the hard work of its working people to pay a crowd of bankers while hospitals close, dole ques get longer, schools are told that their budgets are going to take a hit and the underclasses, created by the state, are going to be blamed.  You mentioned for me the vast amount of natural resources 'given' away to shell that, had it been nationalised, would have funded the Irish economy as it was 3 years ago 90 times over!!  There really is no comparison. Its all about whether a nation and its people cares enough about its people or not.  Socialism is the only solution that involves real equality. The founding fathers of our nation believed it too. Read the proclamation and the democratic programme of the first Dáil. Its all in there, black and white and bloodstained.

Maybe other eejits ill listen to you on your barstool, this eejit will choose to challenge lazy comment for fear it might influence others who might be feling the pinch and looking to blame the junkies and the single parents.

[lawnseed]

i think everyones perception of communism is thousands of people in paddy fields planting rice in little grey uniforms. with modern methods of gauging public opinion and technology decisions can be made quickly and easily. eg who do you want for president text a b or c only one vote from each phone you would even have to stop work/play so problems with planning on a mass scale could be minimised. given that the worlds population is still growing there are never going to be enough jobs to create full employment so underclasses are as fiontan says unavoidable. so perhaps some kind of jobsharing week on week off could be a runner, the time off could be spent doing voluntary work or playing sports. the wage for being off the same as for working.
somethings gotta give..

[lawnseed]

Despite suffering a trade embargo for the past 50 years, Cuba has more doctors per head of population than any other nation in the world.  In all recent surveys it also has one of the most happy and contentent populations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index

In Venezuela where the oil industry has been nationalised (red oil) everyone in the country benefits from it instead of a very small percentage who benefited before it was nationalised.  In Ireland we have Shell to Sea giving away Irelands oil reserves as well as private companies building toll roads that pay for themselves within 10 years which then generate massive profits for private individuals instead of the profits being used to e.g. build more roads.

I do not agree with Communism where Communism means everyone working for virtually nothing while Nicolae Ceauescu or Stalin etc. lived oppulent lives, where Communism is in effect a form of cheap labour.

Or as George Orwell put it in animal farm 'Somehow it seemed as though the farm had grown richer without making the animals themselves any richer — except, of course, for the pigs and the dogs.'




I do not think it is morally right that anyone in the world has 40 Billion dollars in there bank account (or 1 Billion dollars for that matter) while other people are starving, I don't care if they are Warren Buffett or Carlos Slim or Bono.  I'm not saying I agree with Communism where no one has any real personal incentive to improve themselves but with the type of Hypercapitalism we have in the western world at the minute the rich are getting much richer and the poor getting much poorer.

nice post. 50 YEARS of the yank boot on their necks fair play to them

[Mike Sheehy]

Lawnseed, I think its time we brought this argument to the next level.

First, I dont see how you really need two cars ...?..surely the wifey and yourself can arrange things whereby your activities are coordinated ?

Also, as well as being morally wrong to be living in a house that you have not paid for with your own money, is it not unfair that you benefit from a favoured position with the bank when so many others have lost their homes or are simply paying rent.

Finally, there are people, especially in urban areas,  who have never had land in their family...how can you justify living off the fat of the land when the workers create product which they have no ownership of ?

I wouldnt be an expert at these sort of things but it should be quite easy to set up a paypal account where we can redistribute your wealth.

Maiden1, 4father...I'm sure you would support this effort ?  Do either of you have experience setting up paypal accounts....Dont you agree that the principled thing to do is practice what you preach before expecting the rest of society to follow.

[4father]

Despite suffering a trade embargo for the past 50 years, Cuba has more doctors per head of population than any other nation in the world.  In all recent surveys it also has one of the most happy and contentent populations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index

In Venezuela where the oil industry has been nationalised (red oil) everyone in the country benefits from it instead of a very small percentage who benefited before it was nationalised.  In Ireland we have Shell to Sea giving away Irelands oil reserves as well as private companies building toll roads that pay for themselves within 10 years which then generate massive profits for private individuals instead of the profits being used to e.g. build more roads.

I do not agree with Communism where Communism means everyone working for virtually nothing while Nicolae Ceauescu or Stalin etc. lived oppulent lives, where Communism is in effect a form of cheap labour.

Or as George Orwell put it in animal farm 'Somehow it seemed as though the farm had grown richer without making the animals themselves any richer — except, of course, for the pigs and the dogs.'




I do not think it is morally right that anyone in the world has 40 Billion dollars in there bank account (or 1 Billion dollars for that matter) while other people are starving, I don't care if they are Warren Buffett or Carlos Slim or Bono.  I'm not saying I agree with Communism where no one has any real personal incentive to improve themselves but with the type of Hypercapitalism we have in the western world at the minute the rich are getting much richer and the poor getting much poorer.

nice post. 50 YEARS of the yank boot on their necks fair play to them

Indeed!  Good post maiden1

[4father]

I wouldnt be an expert at these sort of things...

Clearly.

[Tony Baloney]

I wouldnt be an expert at these sort of things...

Clearly.

Is that a Loughguile native on the left of your avatar progressing to a Glensman on the right?

[4father]

I wouldnt be an expert at these sort of things...

Clearly.

Is that a Loughguile native on the left of your avatar progressing to a Glensman on the right?

Hahaha, I'll let the North Antrim folk fight that one out. 

[Mike Sheehy]

Lawnseed, I think its time we brought this argument to the next level.

First, I dont see how you really need two cars ...?..surely the wifey and yourself can arrange things whereby your activities are coordinated ?

Also, as well as being morally wrong to be living in a house that you have not paid for with your own money, is it not unfair that you benefit from a favoured position with the bank when so many others have lost their homes or are simply paying rent.

Finally, there are people, especially in urban areas,  who have never had land in their family...how can you justify living off the fat of the land when the workers create product which they have no ownership of ?

I wouldnt be an expert at these sort of things but it should be quite easy to set of a paypal account where we can redistribute your wealth.

Maiden1, 4father...I'm sure you would support this effort ?  Do either of you have experience setting up paypal accounts....Dont you agree that the principled thing to do is practice what you preach before expecting the rest of society to follow.

Aye go for it, if they cancel my mortgage they can redistribute away .  Not sure me redistrubuting my wealth would kick off much of a revolution.

Don't you think its morally wrong for you to be living in a house worth, wild guess,  150,000-200000 that you havent even paid for while some people live in slums made out of cardboard ?

[trueblue1234]

Sounds like Tralee's away to f**k altogether!!

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

It seems that thousands of Communist Cubans are taking up European Union Spain's offer of taking up passports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16342340

[Arthur_Friend]

It seems that thousands of Communist Cubans are taking up European Union Spain's offer of taking up passports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16342340

Why would they not take up the option of citizenship that they are entitled to?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

It seems that thousands of Communist Cubans are taking up European Union Spain's offer of taking up passports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16342340

Why would they not take up the option of citizenship that they are entitled to?

So they can leave the Communist Paradise..

[Arthur_Friend]

It seems that thousands of Communist Cubans are taking up European Union Spain's offer of taking up passports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16342340

Why would they not take up the option of citizenship that they are entitled to?

So they can leave the Communist Paradise..

And the other nationalities?