Household Charge Boycott

[Ulick]

Ulick, where did I defend the charge?

Is lambasting those who oppose it not the same thing?

On your political planet maybe.

So then why are you attacking those who oppose the Household Charge and a thread about em... the Household Charge, if you are not defending the Household Charge? 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

A property tax as I understand its implementation in Ireland, will not give any consideration to a household's ability to pay (ie their income), which is quite similar to your illustration above of how the houselhold charge disproportionately burdens taxpayers.
It will be based on the valuation that is applied by an external valuer.

I believe you to be incorrect on both counts there: the valuation is going to be based on a 'self-assessment', apparently, and further it seems that the amount to be taxed will be dependent on income (as least that what the current proposals are, not that a politician would ever say one thing and then do another).

[Shamrock Shore]

I wonder if a Garda went to one of the 'peoples' champion' 11 TDs and asked their advice on whether he/she should pay the charge what would the advice be?

If a Garda breaks the law (as non payment of this charge will be) he/she could face losing their job.

As far as I know a TD loses their seat if they are convicted of a criminal offence with more than a 6 month prison sentence - a Garda will lose the job for much less.

Jesus - we have a Dáil full of muppets (no offence Muppet)

[haze]

A property tax as I understand its implementation in Ireland, will not give any consideration to a household's ability to pay (ie their income), which is quite similar to your illustration above of how the houselhold charge disproportionately burdens taxpayers.
It will be based on the valuation that is applied by an external valuer.

I believe you to be incorrect on both counts there: the valuation is going to be based on a 'self-assessment', apparently, and further it seems that the amount to be taxed will be dependent on income (as least that what the current proposals are, not that a politician would ever say one thing and then do another).

Ok. I see Phil Hogan has gone some way yesterday in providing clarification in how the charge will be applied. According to Phil the "key elements for the tax would be:

The value of the property
Household income
Regional differences between property values
Payment of stamp duty by first-time buyers during the property boom"

[Ulick]

I wonder if a Garda went to one of the 'peoples' champion' 11 TDs and asked their advice on whether he/she should pay the charge what would the advice be?

If a Garda breaks the law (as non payment of this charge will be) he/she could face losing their job.

As far as I know a TD loses their seat if they are convicted of a criminal offence with more than a 6 month prison sentence - a Garda will lose the job for much less.

Jesus - we have a Dáil full of muppets (no offence Muppet)

"Sinn Féin is not advocating a boycott of the charge but said it will support those that choose not to pay it. "We're not telling people what to do," a spokesperson told TheJournal.ie. "
http://www.thejournal.ie/five-sinn-fein-tds-will-boycott-household-charge-305879-Dec2011/

"A party spokesperson said this evening:  "We support those who choose not to pay it, but we're not advocating non-payment. We're not telling people not to pay, unlike other parties.""
http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-td-and-independents-say-they-wont-pay-household-charge-304786-Dec2011/

[Rossfan]

I presume SF's "support" will consist of issuing statements condemning the Govt for fining someone who doesnt pay ?
That will be a great help at the oul' Supermarket check out 
On the main issue - why didnt the 9 potential lawbreaking lawmakers get het up about the 2% rise in VAT which will hit everyone , esp low income groups , not just property owners ?
Average cost per family of the VAT rise estimated at 5/600 per year .

They remind me of a statement someone once made about some politician or other ( EG or someone will no doubt verify the names involved  )  - "A shiver looking for a spine to run up"

[muppet]

Ulick, where did I defend the charge?

Is lambasting those who oppose it not the same thing?

On your political planet maybe.

So then why are you attacking those who oppose the Household Charge and a thread about em... the Household Charge, if you are not defending the Household Charge? 

Did you even read my post at all before attacking me?

I explained thoroughly why I was attacking Higgins & co. The household tax is incidental, I would rather pay no tax and am not supporting paying more.

If Higgins was taking a moral stand against austerity he would have done it for any of the far more damaging litany of other measures that have already been introduced. Or he would have started his protest when the first €1 was bailed into the banks. He didn't do it for those issues but he is doing it for this issue. Why is that?

[deiseach]

"Sinn Féin is not advocating a boycott of the charge but said it will support those that choose not to pay it. "We're not telling people what to do," a spokesperson told TheJournal.ie. "
http://www.thejournal.ie/five-sinn-fein-tds-will-boycott-household-charge-305879-Dec2011/

"A party spokesperson said this evening:  "We support those who choose not to pay it, but we're not advocating non-payment. We're not telling people not to pay, unlike other parties.""
http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-td-and-independents-say-they-wont-pay-household-charge-304786-Dec2011/

Weasel words.

[armaghniac]

"Sinn Féin is not advocating a boycott of the charge but said it will support those that choose not to pay it. "We're not telling people what to do," a spokesperson told TheJournal.ie. "

So If I decide not to pay my income tax, SF will support me?

As Pat the Plank pointed out on the radio just now, many people were ranting in the past about Bertie not being tax compliant and should be thrown out of the Dáil Éireann. The same people are now proposing to become not tax compliant, without of course proposing that they be thrown out of the Dáil.

[Shamrock Shore]

Can I have a list of the taxes/charges/levies/ that Sinn Fein and the Left Alliance think I should pay but they will support me if I don't pay.

[Declan]

Muppet - Did Comrade Joe not protest against the other issues you mentioned ? You're argument re his "need" for an organised protest from the usual suspects is an interesting one and one with which I wouldn't entirely disagree. After all it's in the Trotskyite playbook.

I do think that this maybe the issue that causes people to organise - I could be wrong but this guy thinks so

A tax too far
"Come on folks . . . it's just €2 per week, and it's for public services," keened the great one.
I have to say, that's a great deal, actually, and would be first in the queue to pay, if only. . .
If only I hadn't to pay car tax, again to be raised; if I hadn't to pay for a television licence; if I hadn't to pay for electricity, gas, refuse collection and tolls on the road.
If I didn't have to pay income tax; if I didn't have to pay a plastic bag levy; if I didn't have to pay car and house insurance.
If I didn't have to pay a health levy; if I didn't have to pay for my children's education; if I wasn't screwed with VAT on everything, bar the air I breathe.
If I didn't have to pay for health cover; if I didn't have to pay the levy for the wealthy and the banks who poisoned this nation.
If I didn't have to buy petrol; if I didn't have to feed four children; if I didn't have to pay for Quinn's demise.
You see, the €2, as Enda contemptuously dismissed it, is just the tip of the iceberg.
Oh god, I forgot the wallop that they took for my stamp duty. Where was I?
Oh yes. Sorry -- but I won't be paying.
On a wet November's morning, two years ago, Phil Hogan refused point blank to take a voluntary cut from his wages, citing personal circumstances.
Mine are outlined above. I won't pay. I worked 30 years in the prison service and have not the slightest fear of entering one of its prisons rather than pay money on my house to facilitate a €35,000 rise for an adviser of the Taoiseach, who was already on an eye-watering salary.
It's time for the Government to get up off its arse and take off the gloves.
Go after the hidden and thieved wealth, and stop screwing the ordinary Joe who thought they elected something different, rather than Fianna Fail lite.

John Cuffe
Dunboyne, Co Meath

SS - Is the logical end of your argument about elected reps always upholding the law not a dangerous path? Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of this particular issue surely it's incumbent on TDs in particular to make a stand if they believe it to be fundamentally wrong?

I'm all for parliamentary responsibility but if the Troika told us to kill our youngest and oldest relatives to lower the burden on the health service I'm getting the impression that our government would consider it.

[muppet]

Declan, Joe Higgins opposes almost everything, but AFAIK he has only organized protests against the Bin Tax in 2003 and the Household tax now.

This is very simply an ideological refusal to pay for services. It has nothing to with austerity or the bank crisis or the TROIKA. It is simple populism promising to get serves for free for his urban constituency.

[Denn Forever]

Also water charges in the mid 90s which was successful I think.

[Shamrock Shore]

Declan

I take your point. But as far as I am concerned TDs have the right and the obligation to protest, in a lawful manner against any perceived unjust law. But until such time as a majority of the Dáil vote to scrap said law then they are under a public duty, as legislators, to uphold the law.

Where do you draw the line? What about Ming's crusade to legislate for cannabis usage. He believed that was fundementally wrong. I know he has dropped this stance now but had he the right to break the law in his fondness for the auld grass?

[muppet]

Also water charges in the mid 90s which was successful I think.

Indeed.

Did Joe Higgins ever accept remuneration from any of the these Councils and Corporations?