David McWilliams: Ireland should host rugby world cup

[trileacman]

Balls of an idea. Firstly neither the government or the IRFU has the money to put into the stadia development.

Aviva, Croke, Thomond, Ravenhill (desperate for a revamp), RDS (desperate for a revamp). So ideally we need a stadia in cork, Galway/Castlebar, midlands and the northwest. Guessing these would have to come from the GAA fold, so who'll pay for this renovation? The government, the IRFU, the GAA? The only one with the resources is the GAA and are they really going to spend their money transforming their stadia for a rival sporting competition.

Don't get me wrong lads, I love the idea, but behind it all I doubt it's feasibility. Perhaps better to buddy up with the Welsh or the Scots.

[Muck Savage]

Of course we could do this. When people talk about NZ not making money they are not looking at it correctly. The main reason NZ didn't make money is the physical fact that its located in a place that make it expensive to travel to. If it was held in Ireland all the 6 nations teams would have big following, NZ and Aus bring a large crowd no matter where the WC is held (back to the Rugby nuts comment) and I would say the same about SA. The other nations won't set the world alight with the support they have even if it was held in their back yard.

How much would it cost? We'll if we got together as a country IRFU and GAA then it can be done easily. Last WC there were 4 groups (same as Euro champ.) so all you need is 8 grounds really but to spread things around

Leinster - Aviva (50K), Croke Park (83K), with Portlaoise (27K) and even Tullamore 20K
Munster - Thomond (27K), Thurles (50K), PiC (50K)
Ulster - Clones (36K), Raven (revamped)
Connacht - Castlebar (42K), Tuam (25K), Roscommon(30K)

The grounds would need a bit of work but this wouldn't take a lot of money to do and with a bit of a get up and go attitude could be done. This sort of thing is needed in the country right now, get things moving again, positive attitude and all that. Never mind sharing it with another country, just go do the thing alone.

The GAA would get a number of grounds upgraded, paying for some themselves, some through IRFU and some through the goverment. Course money is tight now but all parties need to look at the benifits long term in getting people/players for the two associations back to work and turning an economy.

[BennyHarp]

Casement will be a 40,000 all seater by then too!   

[lawnseed]

hold on lads! i think you'll find the gaa coffers are not quite as full as people expect. there are at least half a dozen counties up to their necks not to mention dozens of clubs who have sunk themselves to the ballocks. the gaa will be doing well to hold on to what they have never mind setting about revamping grounds for rugby. i like watching rugby especially munster  but i wouldnt have the money to run to gaa matches and rugby so somethings gotta give

[Capt Pat]

Looking at your list of stadia the GAA could pull off that just about on their own in the ROI. The GAA however is the key to it happening. These stadiums are used every year as well so money spent upgrading them would be utilised after the tournament.

NZ is the only* country in the world where Rugby Union is the 'National Sport'. They are absolutely obsessed by the game, in a way which has few parallels anywhere else, any sport. Therefore if the NZRU couldn't at least break even, then there is NO chance of the IRFU doing so, in a country where Rugby is the 3rd sport.

Therefore the two Governments would have to underwrite any tournament, to the tune of many millions. It is just possible that the UK might do so for their 20-25%(?) of the tournament. However I think it v.unlikely that the ROI could seriously do so for their share.

And that is just the cost of staging the tournament itself. The number of stadia which would need to be built would alone scupper any such deal (imo). For NZ 2011, they used 12 stadia, all renovated/refurbished/new-built, with the following capacities:
15k Windsor Park Ravenhill
18k x 3 RDS, Casement Belfast, O Moore Park Portlaois
22k McHale Park Castlebar
26k Pearse Stadium Galway
30k x3 Thomond Park, Gaelic Grounds Limerick, Killarney, Clones
34k- Pairc ui Caoimh
40k- Aviva Stadium 50,000, Thurles
60k- Croke Park 76,000 all seated

At present, I'd guess Ireland only has 3 suitable stadia (Croke, AVIVA and Thomond), plus the RDS, Ravenhill and maybe 3 or 4 (?) GAA grounds which could be done up easily/cheaply to World Cup standards. Therefore at least 4 new stadia (effectively) would need to be built pretty much from scratch, plus many millions spent on the others, to be sufficient.

And even if there was a case for saying the tournament itself warrants this (highly debateable, imo), what use would Ireland have for 12 stadia of that size and standard dotted around the island after the rugger buggers had all departed?

England has already been awarded the 2015 tournament. Argentina, Italy, Japan and USA have all got realistic future aspirations towards hosting what would be their first ever home RWC. Let them each have a go, I say, and by 2031 the Irish economy might just be recovered sufficiently for Ireland to have its turn. 



* - Barring a few tiny Pacific Islands, that is.

[Eamonnca1]

Assuming the government eventually has a bit of money, they could turn to the GAA and say "We'll give you X million euro (or punts, judging by the way things are going, but that's another thread in itself) if you upgrade certain grounds up to international standards in time for the RWC and make them available during that tournament."

If the GAA accepts the deal then look who benefits:

• IRFU gets exposure of its game in Ireland during the tournament.


• GAA gets world class grounds for keeps.


• Ireland gets a boost from a million rugby fans making the short trip from Britain, France, Italy etc. and spending their tourist dollars in the country, a place on the map as the location of serious events and a good place to invest in, and of course a morale boost. When was the last time we had one of them?

.

[lawnseed]

Assuming the government eventually has a bit of money, they could turn to the GAA and say "We'll give you X million euro (or punts, judging by the way things are going, but that's another thread in itself) if you upgrade certain grounds up to international standards in time for the RWC and make them available during that tournament."

If the GAA accepts the deal then look who benefits:

• IRFU gets exposure of its game in Ireland during the tournament.


• GAA gets world class grounds for keeps.


• Ireland gets a boost from a million rugby fans making the short trip from Britain, France, Italy etc. and spending their tourist dollars in the country, a place on the map as the location of serious events and a good place to invest in, and of course a morale boost. When was the last time we had one of them?

.

i hoteliers reading your post eamon will be putting up the price of rooms as we post, god help the rugger crowd the feckers here will fleece them.. if this comes off 

[whiskeysteve]

For NZ 2011, they used 12 stadia, all renovated/refurbished/new-built, with the following capacities:
15k
18k x 3
22k
26k
30k x3
34k
40k
60k

At present, I'd guess Ireland only has 3 suitable stadia (Croke, AVIVA and Thomond), plus the RDS, Ravenhill and maybe 3 or 4 (?) GAA grounds which could be done up easily/cheaply to World Cup standards. Therefore at least 4 new stadia (effectively) would need to be built pretty much from scratch, plus many millions spent on the others, to be sufficient.

And even if there was a case for saying the tournament itself warrants this (highly debateable, imo), what use would Ireland have for 12 stadia of that size and standard dotted around the island after the rugger buggers had all departed?

4 from pretty much scratch?? Think you are overstating that point. Ireland already has loads of stadium of those capacities. Id say there would be at least 20 stadia of over 20k around the island.

As for what they would be used for after - GAA would easily account for 12 of those (NZ sized) capacities on its own - they are smaller than the capacities that are there now!!

[Evil Genius]

For NZ 2011, they used 12 stadia, all renovated/refurbished/new-built, with the following capacities:
15k
18k x 3
22k
26k
30k x3
34k
40k
60k

At present, I'd guess Ireland only has 3 suitable stadia (Croke, AVIVA and Thomond), plus the RDS, Ravenhill and maybe 3 or 4 (?) GAA grounds which could be done up easily/cheaply to World Cup standards. Therefore at least 4 new stadia (effectively) would need to be built pretty much from scratch, plus many millions spent on the others, to be sufficient.

And even if there was a case for saying the tournament itself warrants this (highly debateable, imo), what use would Ireland have for 12 stadia of that size and standard dotted around the island after the rugger buggers had all departed?

4 from pretty much scratch?? Think you are overstating that point. Ireland already has loads of stadium of those capacities. Id say there would be at least 20 stadia of over 20k around the island.

As for what they would be used for after - GAA would easily account for 12 of those (NZ sized) capacities on its own - they are smaller than the capacities that are there now!!

Cover? Seating? Corporate/Sponsor Facilities? Drug-Testing/Medical? Telecommunications & TV? Floodlighting? Access? Public Transport/Trains/Airports? Hotels?

I am certainly open to correction, but I've already been to a numerous "world class" stadia, in several countries, in several sports (soccer, rugby, Baseball, American Football, Racing) and I would be very surprised if rural county GAA stadia in Ireland come anywhere near what is required, even if they do squeeze in 30k spectators (or more) for Gaelic games.

[whiskeysteve]

For NZ 2011, they used 12 stadia, all renovated/refurbished/new-built, with the following capacities:
15k
18k x 3
22k
26k
30k x3
34k
40k
60k

At present, I'd guess Ireland only has 3 suitable stadia (Croke, AVIVA and Thomond), plus the RDS, Ravenhill and maybe 3 or 4 (?) GAA grounds which could be done up easily/cheaply to World Cup standards. Therefore at least 4 new stadia (effectively) would need to be built pretty much from scratch, plus many millions spent on the others, to be sufficient.

And even if there was a case for saying the tournament itself warrants this (highly debateable, imo), what use would Ireland have for 12 stadia of that size and standard dotted around the island after the rugger buggers had all departed?

4 from pretty much scratch?? Think you are overstating that point. Ireland already has loads of stadium of those capacities. Id say there would be at least 20 stadia of over 20k around the island.

As for what they would be used for after - GAA would easily account for 12 of those (NZ sized) capacities on its own - they are smaller than the capacities that are there now!!

Cover? Seating? Corporate/Sponsor Facilities? Drug-Testing/Medical? Telecommunications & TV? Floodlighting? Access? Public Transport/Trains/Airports? Hotels?

I am certainly open to correction, but I've already been to a numerous "world class" stadia, in several countries, in several sports (soccer, rugby, Baseball, American Football, Racing) and I would be very surprised if rural county GAA stadia in Ireland come anywhere near what is required, even if they do squeeze in 30k spectators (or more) for Gaelic games.

Ah you think we are all just backward paddys in the GAA eh? Go to a few provincial finals and educate yourself, talk about 'rural county' stadia would suggest a loada old preconceptions!

Seating - going by the min. NZ attendances then you would have about 8 stadiums with those capacities in seating (Croke, lansdowne, rds, thomond, thurles, castlebar, limerick, pairc ui caiomh) already with ravenhill and the 3 other GAA grounds to be done up at not 'from scratch' money.

Cover - what is the standard for this?? It is well catered to in most of the aforementioned!

Corporate/sponser facilities - again at least 4 of the 8 I mentioned would have fantastic corporate/sponser facilities with the other 4 not too much of an investment away! This takes care of all the major fixtures anyway!

Drug-testing medical - I know money is tight but come on man! hardly an obstacle

TV - All of the stadiums are set up for broadcast! An expansion to accomodate more crews wouldnt be massively expensive

Floodlighting - Already there!

Public Transport - As I say we have most of the major games/attendances in Dublin/Belfast/Cork/Limerick - not rural bloody Ireland!

Hotels - dotted round the country like white elephants gasping for business even in 'rural' Ireland!

Now...

Just looking at the NZ fixtures, there were 48 games in total and Eden park hosted 11 games including both semis, final and 3rd place playoff!

Surely then Croker, Lansdowne (aviva, spit!), and Thomond could take the bulk of the big games??

As for the rest of the cannon fodder in the group stages, send the japs on to clones. If they aint put off by it then Derry folk can have no complaint with the journey in next years ulster final.

Now don't dress this up as not requiring investment - but the major infrastructure is by and large there (to compete with the NZ capacities you quoted)

[Capt Pat]

The world cup is all about difficult venues New Zealand and in 2019 Japan, why? They will have no problems with stadia and infrastructure but apart from that there is no point sending the tournament there. Maybe money is the reason.
Croke Park and the Aviva at this stage would have to take all the big games and maybe the Ireland and All Black matches as well to cater for ticket demamd which would be tough on the pitches. You would need another big venue maybe Cork or Thurles done up to 40-50000 capacity all seated to spread the load a bit. That would require a big investment shared between GAA/Govt/IRFU/Rugby world cup. Thomond is not big enough for top games. Being in Europe the crowds from England, France, Wales, Scotchland, Italy etc. Should be big. Everyone wants to go to Dublin.

[whiskeysteve]

The world cup is all about difficult venues New Zealand and in 2019 Japan, why? They will have no problems with stadia and infrastructure but apart from that there is no point sending the tournament there. Maybe money is the reason.
Croke Park and the Aviva at this stage would have to take all the big games and maybe the Ireland and All Black matches as well to cater for ticket demamd which would be tough on the pitches. You would need another big venue maybe Cork or Thurles done up to 40-50000 capacity all seated to spread the load a bit. That would require a big investment shared between GAA/Govt/IRFU/Rugby world cup. Thomond is not big enough for top games. Being in Europe the crowds from England, France, Wales, Scotchland, Italy etc. Should be big. Everyone wants to go to Dublin.

This is the thing though, going by the NZ model it wouldnt necessarily be needed for the BIG games!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugby_World_Cup

Only the 2 biggest stadia in NZ were used for the quarter finals onward!

Including the group games that occured in them as well, there were 11 games in Eden park (60k) and 8 games in Regional Stadium, Wellington (40k).

So the Kiwis managed 19 of the biggest games from the 48 between 2 stadia! Obviously a major investment must be on the pitches!

Hypothetically looking at us then assuming the major games took place from after all-ireland football final (and the final group games in NZ occured after the dubs won this year), then Croker could be available as required along with the Aviva for every game from quarter final on!

Surely we could manage the remaining 29 group games between the rest of what we have in Ireland as the New Zealanders did? And the GAA intercounty season would be through with its own major games by World Cup time.

I mean it would the likes of Italy - Namibia/Argentina - Russia down that would be the fare that could be exported beyond our best 4 or 5 stadiums

[AQMP]

England v Ireland at Casement...it's a no-brainer

[Bingo]

I can't see why this couldn't happen with a bit of forward planning - starting now. Of course it would cost a few quid but i think we what we have in place, the outlay would be recouped as the main stadia are already in place bar Raven Hill that should be done by then.

In terms of major sporting events this is the one we could hold I feel.

[deiseach]

We can bid. I can't see circumstances where we'd win though. England, France, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan (remember them, IRB?) and even Scotland all have better facilities right now. And can we be spared the "change the psychology of a nation" crap. There isn't a shred of evidence that this happens.