IRA "fired first" in 1987 attack in Loughgall

[Eamonnca1]

He's bate! He's bate!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

You're peddling a whole load of Stooper propaganda there Eamonn, so full of holes that it's obviously futile at this stage to attempt to shine a light for you. One example, you say the military campaign drove a (bigger) wedge between Unionism and Irish Nationalism: explain, ergo, why it was that Paisley eventually was all brotherly with arch Republican Mc Guinness but was marching up the Falls Road with his raggle-taggle band of bigots in the mid 60s to antagonise the local Taigs with not a whiff of IRA cordite wafting on the northern air?

The sad reality is that the British have never, in respect of any of the countries she occupied, negotiated in the absence of an armed campaign (Hong Kong, for example, was a residency contract expiry). You can try to repaint your own version of historical reality, but it won't change that immutable fact.

[Eamonnca1]

Nice try, but I never said that the IRA created the divisions in the first place. They deepened them.

As for British withdrawal, where was the armed insurrection that drove them out of Australia? Canada?

[Íseal agus crua isteach a]

In fairness Eamonnca you make great GAA videos.

[Eamonnca1]

Thank you sir.

[Myles Na G.]

I don't think there is any doubt that the IRA's armed struggle forced the british government to sit up and realise that things had to change. The armed struggle kick started  the equality we now have.

Catholics / nationalists in the north started to achieve equality with the introduction of one man, one vote and the disbanding of the protestant militia, the B Specials. Both these events happened in 1969, on the foot of the Civil Rights protests, and before the emergence of the provisional IRA. Also in 1969, the decision was taken to establish the Housing Executive in response to allegations of discrimination in housing, though it would be a couple of years after that before the Executive was up and running.

The armed struggle kick started nothing but death and destruction and the further polarisation of an already polarised society. Not only did the armed struggle fail to achieve its objective of forcing the British out of Ireland, it deepened partition by turning people in the republic off the north, and by confirming in the minds of unionists that their future in any united Ireland would be an unpleasant one.

Republicans attempts to rewrite history are truly breathtaking. 

[sammymaguire]

TRULY BREATHTAKING  breathtaking like this?? A thing of beauty...



Very dramatic indeed Myles 

[Eamonnca1]

I don't think there is any doubt that the IRA's armed struggle forced the british government to sit up and realise that things had to change. The armed struggle kick started  the equality we now have.

Catholics / nationalists in the north started to achieve equality with the introduction of one man, one vote and the disbanding of the protestant militia, the B Specials. Both these events happened in 1969, on the foot of the Civil Rights protests, and before the emergence of the provisional IRA. Also in 1969, the decision was taken to establish the Housing Executive in response to allegations of discrimination in housing, though it would be a couple of years after that before the Executive was up and running.

The armed struggle kick started nothing but death and destruction and the further polarisation of an already polarised society. Not only did the armed struggle fail to achieve its objective of forcing the British out of Ireland, it deepened partition by turning people in the republic off the north, and by confirming in the minds of unionists that their future in any united Ireland would be an unpleasant one.

Republicans attempts to rewrite history are truly breathtaking.

Hear hear.

[sheamy]

Maggie trembled at the mighty power of the SDLP 

And she faced down the Provos and lived to tell the tale !

just about...

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

As for British withdrawal, where was the armed insurrection that drove them out of Australia? Canada?

Erm... Australia, Canada -- checked who their monarch is recently, respectively? Not exactly 'driven out' I'd say.

[TransitVanMan]

This thread has descended into a tit-for-tat argument between SF and SDLP apologists. 

Unity has always been a key republican demand and the vols. at Loughall fought a war for independence, not political institutions and a process which fail to tackle the issue of Irish Sovereignty.

Neither the SDLP nor SF (is there any difference now) achieved anything in the way of progressing unification.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Catholics / nationalists in the north started to achieve equality with the introduction of one man, one vote and the disbanding of the protestant militia, the B Specials. Both these events happened in 1969, on the foot of the Civil Rights protests, and before the emergence of the provisional IRA. Also in 1969, the decision was taken to establish the Housing Executive in response to allegations of discrimination in housing, though it would be a couple of years after that before the Executive was up and running.

Yeah, the British really capitulated and yielded contritely to the 'simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play' and Bloody Sunday, for example, was really just a horrible Civil Rights' nightmare.

Tell us, did you get many scratches on that pristine ivory tower of yours with all those uppity Taigs running amok below in pursuit of something approaching parity?

[Myles Na G.]

I was responding to a poster who claimed that the 'armed struggle' kick started the process of equality for Catholics in the north. I pointed out that the first significant steps to reform happened in 1969, before the IRA was on the scene, therefore the 'armed struggle' had nothing to do with this, rather it was the Civil Rights movement which embarrassed Britain down the road to reform. Then you step in with a reference to Bloody Sunday which happened in 1972 and which happened when the 'armed struggle' was in its bloodiest year, thus reinforcing my point that 'armed struggle' kick started nothing but death and destruction.

Thank you for making my points for me, but really, there's no need...

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Then you step in with a reference to Bloody Sunday which happened in 1972 and which happened when the 'armed struggle' was in its bloodiest year, thus reinforcing my point that 'armed struggle' kick started nothing but death and destruction.

You bleat on incessantly about how the Civil Rights Movement was all that was necessary, yet Bloody Sunday very clearly demonstrated Britain's 'commitment' to Irish Civil Rights. Yeah, '72 was the bloodiest year -- do you know how many months there are in a year, and do you know the month of Bloody Sunday? Surely not even you is too deluded to work that one out?

[Myles Na G.]

Then you step in with a reference to Bloody Sunday which happened in 1972 and which happened when the 'armed struggle' was in its bloodiest year, thus reinforcing my point that 'armed struggle' kick started nothing but death and destruction.

You bleat on incessantly about how the Civil Rights Movement was all that was necessary, yet Bloody Sunday very clearly demonstrated Britain's 'commitment' to Irish Civil Rights. Yeah, '72 was the bloodiest year -- do you know how many months there are in a year, and do you know the month of Bloody Sunday? Surely not even you is too deluded to work that one out?

I have no clue what that post means. Take a deep breath, compose yourself, then try again.