Greece

[Eamonnca1]

Let me get this straight. The markets are panicking because of the prospect of the people of Greece having a democratic vote on the terms of their bailout. Merkel, Sarkozy and the troika are wagging their fingers disapprovingly at Papandreou for such a move.

Is it just me or is there something inherently wrong here? Who gets to call the shots? The people or the investors? Shouldn't the people be supreme? And in the birthplace of democracy of all places!

I mean, am I missing something?

[bennydorano]

It is a dumb hugely irresponsible power play, nothing else.

[seafoid]

Whatever deal is finally agreed with Greece will be applied to Ireland.

The Irish budget deficit is still €20 bn

Basically the Irish  government and people brought Ireland  to the position that it is in - corrupt officials, employees, tax dodging and not paying its way on a grand scale. They would prefer to bury their heads in the sand and continue to run at a deficit as long as it doesn't affect them personally.

[thejuice]

Greece are seemingly unwilling to take any medicine in regards the state of their finances. You can argue their right to refuse to be controlled by the IMF but they now hold the future of Europe in their hands.

Do they take a hit for the good of the rest of Europe and perhaps the wider world or do they hold out for their own sake? To be honest they probably lose and will suffer hardship either way.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8578337/The-countries-most-exposed-to-Greek-debt.html

[Orior]

If we all club together with a couple of Euro, we could buy Greece.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Whatever deal is finally agreed with Greece will be applied to Ireland.

The Irish budget deficit is still €20 bn

Basically the Irish  government and people brought Ireland  to the position that it is in - corrupt officials, employees, tax dodging and not paying its way on a grand scale. They would prefer to bury their heads in the sand and continue to run at a deficit as long as it doesn't affect them personally.

Seafoid, I think that the Irish cannot be compared to the Greeks, as we have had to swallow manys a bitter pill in the recent past, and belts have had to be tightened across the country (granted the wankers sorry bankers seem to be immune from penalties/suffering).
Ireland is at least trying to get itself of its knees, the Greeks seem to want their cake and eat it with lashings of cream.

[Denn Forever]

If we all club together with a couple of Euro, we could buy Greece.

I know but the upkeep would be a bit*h.

[Declan]

Ireland is at least trying to get itself of its knees, the Greeks seem to want their cake and eat it with lashings of cream.

Have you seen what the ordinary Greek workers have had to endure this year? The only Greeks who want their cake with cream are the lads who caused it in the first place - a bit like here.
€228 billion salted away to Switzerland in the last 12 months by those in the know!

One of the biggest problems in Greece is the non-compliance of tax payment in the "self employed /professional classes" - less than 20% pay it!!

[Applesisapples]

The Greeks are notorious for avoiding their tax burden. Basically the people and Government borrowed money and spent beyond their means, they need to suck up the medicine in the way Ireland has. If not then bankrupt them. You try borrowing money from AIB and then default, and you will be bankrupt, why not Greece? This is political expendiency that even Bertie wouldn't have tried.

[Declan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8863728/Greek-military-leadership-changes-spark-opposition-outcry.html][url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8863728/Greek-military-leadership-changes-spark-opposition-outcry.html[/url]

Another twist in the Greek tale!

[Hardy]

This being Greece, the spectre of a military coup is always lurking and strangely the media have hardly mentioned it. Even these military purges have attracted very little comment.

What would happen if the army took over? Would the European Rapid Reaction Force move in to protect the EU's economic interests? That would be an evocative event for the Greeks, many of whom see the bail out as just a case of Germany finally paying for what it did to Greece in WW2.

War in Europe over the policies of the EU, whose primary raison d'etre was to ensure European nations would never fight each other again?

[Declan]

War in Europe over the policies of the EU, whose primary raison d'etre was to ensure European nations would never fight each other again

Yep the ultimate irony.

The reason no one is mentioning the purge in the media is that it ultimately means that the discussion could go down the road above and no one wants to countenance that

[omagh_gael]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the troika (sic?)

[seafoid]

Whatever deal is finally agreed with Greece will be applied to Ireland.

The Irish budget deficit is still €20 bn

Basically the Irish  government and people brought Ireland  to the position that it is in - corrupt officials, employees, tax dodging and not paying its way on a grand scale. They would prefer to bury their heads in the sand and continue to run at a deficit as long as it doesn't affect them personally.

Seafoid, I think that the Irish cannot be compared to the Greeks, as we have had to swallow manys a bitter pill in the recent past, and belts have had to be tightened across the country (granted the w**kers sorry bankers seem to be immune from penalties/suffering).
Ireland is at least trying to get itself of its knees, the Greeks seem to want their cake and eat it with lashings of cream.

I know GDA but it won't make any difference. Austerity isn't working. Cutting Government spending contracts the economy and makes it impossible to reduce the deficit to sustainable levels. There is no level of sacrifice that will cut the mustard. Ireland is going to get the same treatment as Greece IMO. 

[seafoid]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the troika (sic?)

The troika is the IMF, The European Central Bank and the European Union.
They are supposed to be like Mr Wolf in Pulp Fiction but instead they f*ck everything up.
Mostly because the other 2 won't listen to the IMF.