British State Collusion

[Windmill abu]

The wasted life to be no further on 30 odd years later...

I am 60 odd years old. I grew up in the 70's and 80's.

I no longer have to go through army check points to get to my work or mass or anywhere else.

I am no longer ruled by a bitter sectarian unionist government.

I can apply for a job and not be turned down because of my religion or the school I went to.

I don't fear being being stopped by a legalised malitia made up of my unionist neighbours.

So for me everything has changed. And it's in no small part down to the sacrifice young Irish men made by giving their lives and freedom, while others condemned them from all corners of this island.

[jb77]

Here's my confusion. Martin McGuiness used to say it was a war. And if those men could been arrested and not shot it be a war crime? How's that work the other way round? Would the Ira not have shot them as it was a supposed war? The 2 soldiers that day of the funerals in Belfast. Took alive then shot, do we not class that was a war crime? What am trying to said you can't say 1 outfit committing war crimes and then the other one not, as it doesn't suit us. There a show on tv  about ww2 at the minute and Hitler instruction was take no prisoners.Where do we draw the difference?

The only gripe I have is that the brits would not consider it a war in their own backyard, they refused to consider the IRA as combatants yet utilised a combatant shoot to skill policy.

There was no doubt they knew the risks Kevin o'donnell was in the game long enough, I remember him with a half grin on his face in the coffin oddly. But like tony doris we never knew lads like peter or sean were involved until they were dead, some waste of life

Can I ask what  actually took place that night? I've heard differing reports

In very general terms 10-12 man unit fired very close from around the main street and headed for annagher hill, a straight line for the roundabout and onto the chapel. McKeever and an un-named were to pick up the men and the Dshk gun. Shooting starts as detailed in the inquiry, McKeever lies on a family grave and avoids being killed the other is stuffed in the spare wheel compartment of locals coming past the scene and drove to the border. The rest of the men make it back to meenagh park and the women drive them to the border, I know one for definite went to louth and has never been back in the north.

Overall it drew a lot of criticism, why they were so close, why they chose clonoe chapel which was so open yet provided so much cover to anyone lying in wait. Generally I could never understand why they bothered trying to dismantle the gun, whole thing should have been burnt where it stood in coalisland. Even heading for the washingbay/derrylaughan direction wouldn't have been all that useful either tbh. The experience that was previously had in jim lynagh or patrick kelly was long since gone.

[Milltown Row2]

The wasted life to be no further on 30 odd years later...

I am 60 odd years old. I grew up in the 70's and 80's.

I no longer have to go through army check points to get to my work or mass or anywhere else.

I am no longer ruled by a bitter sectarian unionist government.

I can apply for a job and not be turned down because of my religion or the school I went to.

I don't fear being being stopped by a legalised malitia made up of my unionist neighbours.

So for me everything has changed. And it's in no small part down to the sacrifice young Irish men made by giving their lives and freedom, while others condemned them from all corners of this island.

Yeah grew up in the thick of it, if you think over 3000 deaths were worth it that's fine.

[Windmill abu]

The wasted life to be no further on 30 odd years later...

I am 60 odd years old. I grew up in the 70's and 80's.

I no longer have to go through army check points to get to my work or mass or anywhere else.

I am no longer ruled by a bitter sectarian unionist government.

I can apply for a job and not be turned down because of my religion or the school I went to.

I don't fear being being stopped by a legalised malitia made up of my unionist neighbours.

So for me everything has changed. And it's in no small part down to the sacrifice young Irish men made by giving their lives and freedom, while others condemned them from all corners of this island.

Yeah grew up in the thick of it, if you think over 3000 deaths were worth it that's fine.

Unionists we're murdering catholics for 50 years before the troubles started. The deaths of all those who died in the troubles could have been avoided if the Catholic population had been treated fairly by the protestant government and police force.

[LC]

When you take into consideration the incidents in Drumnakilly, Loughall, Coagh and Clonoe this all happened within a 4 year period and shows how badly compromised the Republican movement was internally especially in one of its most staunchest areas.  The ceasefire came about just over 2 years after Clonoe and I can recall the Black Taxis with the tricolours up and down the Falls Road, claiming victory it would appear.

Obviously SF / IRA had a degree still of leverage in 1994 and used that to get prisoners released etc, perhaps they also realised at that time that if they did not make a move there would have been only more Clonoe's and therefore only making it more difficult to claim any sort of victory. If the 1994 ceasefire had not occurred I wonder how strong would the IRA have been in say 2000 if things had just drifted along they way they were, would they have been able to apply the same leverage?

[Rossfan]

Looked like at that stage South Armagh was the only place they weren't "compromised" by informers.

[Wildweasel74]

The point is,they knew it was compromised, and still kept at it,leading to a no. of men getting killed. Given some of the events were spread out, it had to either be somebody high up. Or a no.of lower members turned. It's a pity the govt. didn't put the same chase into getting the LVF in the late 90's as iit was supposed to be riddled with informers, but they got to act with impunity.

[Tony Baloney]

The point is,they knew it was compromised, and still kept at it,leading to a no. of men getting killed. Given some of the events were spread out, it had to either be somebody high up. Or a no.of lower members turned. It's a pity the govt. didn't put thd same chase into getting the LVF in thd late 90's as if was supposed to be riddled with informer but we're got to act with impunity.

And we know why that was.

[Snapchap]

The wasted life to be no further on 30 odd years later...

No further on?

Been stopped by the British Army recently have you? Or the RUC?

Yeah all those deaths were worth not getting stopped...

Funny enough was stopped last year when there was a dissident threats.

And we are no further on

Did they dish out any sectarian harassment, humiliate you, threaten you, abuse or assault you? Did armed British soldiers arrive from a nearby barracks? Were the UDR there? Reckon they took your details and passed them onto loyalist paramilitaries?

Yeah you must be right then. Nothing has changed in the last 30 odd years.

Who knows? Wouldn't have too much on me in fairness

But what I do know is SF sit in local government with the DUP now, and maybe, just maybe had we looked at doing that in the late 60's we'd have family friends work colleagues alive today.

Be rest assured though, those deaths didn't bring about being stopped by the peelers, it was plain old politics. So again wasted lives. There won't be, unfortunately, a UI in our lifetime

Looked at power sharing in the late 60s? Is that a serious comment?

And no, the deaths of four specific Volunteers in Clonoe didn't bring about the changes we have today, and yes politics did. But that political process was only possible because of IRA campaign. John Major's government had to be bombed into serious negotiations. That's just a matter of historical record.

But hold on, are you now saying there has been a change? I thought you said nothing has changed in 30 odd years?

[AustinPowers]

The point is,they knew it was compromised, and still kept at it,leading to a no. of men getting killed. Given some of the events were spread out, it had to either be somebody high up. Or a no.of lower members turned. It's a pity the govt. didn't put the same chase into getting the LVF in the late 90's as iit was supposed to be riddled with informers, but they got to act with impunity.

I'm not referring to Clonoe , but is it possible that  informers  were known to  those higher up, and "set up" in these type of incidents?

Maybe these types of ambushes  was a way to rid the organisation of  known informers, and at the same time gain  more support from  the people  and the funders, by creating more martyrs?

[Tony Baloney]

The point is,they knew it was compromised, and still kept at it,leading to a no. of men getting killed. Given some of the events were spread out, it had to either be somebody high up. Or a no.of lower members turned. It's a pity the govt. didn't put the same chase into getting the LVF in the late 90's as iit was supposed to be riddled with informers, but they got to act with impunity.

I'm not referring to Clonoe , but is it possible that  informers  were known to  those higher up, and "set up" in these type of incidents?

Maybe these types of ambushes  was a way to rid the organisation of  known informers, and at the same time gain  more support from  the people  and the funders, by creating more martyrs?

Regardless, when the SAS are sent out it's as a kill squad, not to arrest people. There was never any intention of an arrest.

[barelegs]

The point is,they knew it was compromised, and still kept at it,leading to a no. of men getting killed. Given some of the events were spread out, it had to either be somebody high up. Or a no.of lower members turned. It's a pity the govt. didn't put the same chase into getting the LVF in the late 90's as iit was supposed to be riddled with informers, but they got to act with impunity.

I'm not referring to Clonoe , but is it possible that  informers  were known to  those higher up, and "set up" in these type of incidents?

Maybe these types of ambushes  was a way to rid the organisation of  known informers, and at the same time gain  more support from  the people  and the funders, by creating more martyrs?

Regardless, when the SAS are sent out it's as a kill squad, not to arrest people. There was never any intention of an arrest.

The SAS were back in action again in Coalisland in 1997 when there was a grenade attack on the station. They were clearly still getting information 5 years later.

I think someone had referenced a house being wired. Was O'Farrells see BBC report from 2008

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7529668.stm

[grounded]

https://coverthistory.ie/2024/09/22/mi6s-friends-at-the-irish-times/

Worth a read.

[Puckoon]

Amazing looking back at that period how young many of the casualties of the troubles were. The ages are shocking when viewed from a backwards lens of middle age.

[marty34]

Labour and the Brits are total sc^&bags.

Then they have the nerve to pontificate about a rap goup.

 https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2025/0430/1510365-sean-brown/