The Dubs favourite Kildare Journalist's Team of the year

[muppet]

Donegal + Kildare = 5 all stars or 1/3 of the team.

Kerry + Mayo = 3 All Stars or 1/5 of the team.

Nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? You may disagree with some of the selections but all stars are about individual performances so it certainly isn't nonsense to give a good few all stars to teams that have played a lot
of games. Both Kildare and Donegal played a lot of high profile games which allowed their players to showcase themselves and many did so effectively therefore it is reasonable to award them a few a stars. Cork correctly got very few all stars after winning the all Ireland because very few of their players played consistently well, the fact Kerry and Mayo got to the semi final shouldn't automatically entitle them  to more all stars that Kildare.

You contradict yourself twice.

You say all stars are about 'individual performances' and then say it 'isn't nonsense to give a good few all stars to teams that have played a lot of games', suggesting you meant 'many performances' rather than 'individual performances'.

Kildare and Donegal played in less high profile games than Kerry (is the AIF a high enough profile game for  you?) which knocks out the second part of your argument.

This is about Gaa snobbery. It is about the usual distain for anything west of the Shannon. Kildare and Tyrone didn't even make a semi final, both teams hardly reached their targets for the season, yet between them they get 3 times what Mayo get.

His 2nd choice for 'games of the year' (which strangely doesn't feature on his upset of the year list) throws up just one All Star while his first choice throws up 5 and his 3rd choice throws up 6. 11 of his awards come from the best and third best games while only 1 comes from the 2nd best game.

I know this is entirely subjective but for me he is demonstrating the same snobbery that we saw from Brolly and Spillane prior to the 2nd best game of the season.

[Zulu]

Utter rubbish, and once again you seem incapable of following an argument. I didn't contradict myself at all. Teams that play a lot of games mean that players on those teams play a lot of games which means that if some of them consistently put in quality individual performances they are worthy all stars. To simplify it for you, if team A plays 8 games and their number 14 plays well in 7 of those games he probably has a stronger claim to an all star than the number 14 on team B who played 5 games, all other things being fairly equal.


The second point I made (according to you anyway) is high profile games, what I meant by that is Kildare were on TV a lot so their players got to showcase themselves and Donegal played right up to
the semi final. Mayo played in 5 games, one of which was in London and the two Connacht games were in terrible conditions, Kerry played teams like tipp and Limerick (twice) on their way to an AI. So Kildare and Donegal players had a better shop window than Mayo for certain and, in some respects, kerry.

This isn't GAA snobbery, its one guys opinion, I don't agree with everything (cavanagh's selection for
starters) but your first post highlights the overreaction of people to the opinions of others. No matter who picks these types of things you'll have others who'll disagree but describing the original view as nonsense is, well, nonsense.

From Kerry, Sheehan, Tom O'Sullivan, the O'Se's, gooch and Darren o'sullivan would be the only contenders in my book and only Darren O'Sullivan and Sheehan would be certainties. For Mayo, andy Moran would be the only certainty, with Cillian O'Connor and maybe Vaughan and Higgins as possibles.

I don't know what your point about all stars to best game ratio is about.

[PAULD123]

I think it is a real pity that Bryan Cullen isn't considered for the team of the year. It just shows how little many nominators actually watch the game. It's easy to see scores, Blocks, saves, frees and solos. But it is much less obvious to see the man who is involved in tracking one end of the field to the other, making himself constantly available to keep moves flowing, delivering accurate passes to the creative players, closing down attacks, and never allowing any member of his team to be exposed. Bryan Cullen this season has been the difference fro Dublin. If Kerry had Bryan Cullen they would be All-Ireland champions. I've seen him several times and paid close attention to his game. He rarely bursts through for scores or unleashes 50-yard passes. But he gets in the tackle, receives a ball when a team-mate is in trouble, releases short passes to open up the play. It is unsung and easily overlooked but his work is the reason Dublin retained possession on many occasions and was the springboard for so much of their attacks.

[deiseach]

Disappointments of the Year
1. The standard of refereeing and umpiring and the avoidance of that problem by those in power
2. Donegal's mind-numbing defensive tactics
3. The lack of a novel and surprise provincial winner

Surely Donegal winning Ulster was novel, maybe not a surprise but no one outside of Armagh/Tyrone had won it since 1998.

Good point. This year was the sixth time that Donegal have ever won Ulster and the first time in 19 years. Perhaps the standards for what is 'novel' were raised by Westmeath winning Leinster in 2004. Fear Manach agus Cill Mhantáin abu!

[HiMucker]

I think it is a real pity that Bryan Cullen isn't considered for the team of the year. It just shows how little many nominators actually watch the game. It's easy to see scores, Blocks, saves, frees and solos. But it is much less obvious to see the man who is involved in tracking one end of the field to the other, making himself constantly available to keep moves flowing, delivering accurate passes to the creative players, closing down attacks, and never allowing any member of his team to be exposed. Bryan Cullen this season has been the difference fro Dublin. If Kerry had Bryan Cullen they would be All-Ireland champions. I've seen him several times and paid close attention to his game. He rarely bursts through for scores or unleashes 50-yard passes. But he gets in the tackle, receives a ball when a team-mate is in trouble, releases short passes to open up the play. It is unsung and easily overlooked but his work is the reason Dublin retained possession on many occasions and was the springboard for so much of their attacks.

100% right.  I remember hearing someone from the dublin camp saying that it was nearly impossible for him to play an entire game at that role no mattter how fit he got because of the intensity of it.  His importance to their campaign cannot be overstated.

[muppet]

Utter rubbish, and once again you seem incapable of following an argument. I didn't contradict myself at all. Teams that play a lot of games mean that players on those teams play a lot of games which means that if some of them consistently put in quality individual performances they are worthy all stars. To simplify it for you, if team A plays 8 games and their number 14 plays well in 7 of those games he probably has a stronger claim to an all star than the number 14 on team B who played 5 games, all other things being fairly equal.


The second point I made (according to you anyway) is high profile games, what I meant by that is Kildare were on TV a lot so their players got to showcase themselves and Donegal played right up to
the semi final. Mayo played in 5 games, one of which was in London and the two Connacht games were in terrible conditions, Kerry played teams like tipp and Limerick (twice) on their way to an AI. So Kildare and Donegal players had a better shop window than Mayo for certain and, in some respects, kerry.

This isn't GAA snobbery, its one guys opinion, I don't agree with everything (cavanagh's selection for
starters) but your first post highlights the overreaction of people to the opinions of others. No matter who picks these types of things you'll have others who'll disagree but describing the original view as nonsense is, well, nonsense.

From Kerry, Sheehan, Tom O'Sullivan, the O'Se's, gooch and Darren o'sullivan would be the only contenders in my book and only Darren O'Sullivan and Sheehan would be certainties. For Mayo, andy Moran would be the only certainty, with Cillian O'Connor and maybe Vaughan and Higgins as possibles.

I don't know what your point about all stars to best game ratio is about.

I could do a Ross4life and produce loads of stats but I don't feel the need. Most Gaa fans will know that the vast majority or All Stars always come from the finalists, a few from semi-finalists and a token here and there. Your argument suggests it is about playing high profile games. It is as long as you are talking about the All-Ireland Final and the semis. Just because RTE decides to show every Kildare qualifier doesn't mean they deserve lots of All-Stars. .

The Connacht Final is a high profile game the standard of which was completely disregarded by the pundits. In hindsight the standard that day was a lot higher than their punditry. You Zulu in particular were lecturing on a Mayo thread on how we weren't producing good enough footballers. I hope you enjoyed the Cork game.

[Hardy]

I think it is a real pity that Bryan Cullen isn't considered for the team of the year. It just shows how little many nominators actually watch the game. It's easy to see scores, Blocks, saves, frees and solos. But it is much less obvious to see the man who is involved in tracking one end of the field to the other, making himself constantly available to keep moves flowing, delivering accurate passes to the creative players, closing down attacks, and never allowing any member of his team to be exposed. Bryan Cullen this season has been the difference fro Dublin. If Kerry had Bryan Cullen they would be All-Ireland champions. I've seen him several times and paid close attention to his game. He rarely bursts through for scores or unleashes 50-yard passes. But he gets in the tackle, receives a ball when a team-mate is in trouble, releases short passes to open up the play. It is unsung and easily overlooked but his work is the reason Dublin retained possession on many occasions and was the springboard for so much of their attacks.

That's gym monkey work, sure.

[Zulu]

Utter rubbish, and once again you seem incapable of following an argument. I didn't contradict myself at all. Teams that play a lot of games mean that players on those teams play a lot of games which means that if some of them consistently put in quality individual performances they are worthy all stars. To simplify it for you, if team A plays 8 games and their number 14 plays well in 7 of those games he probably has a stronger claim to an all star than the number 14 on team B who played 5 games, all other things being fairly equal

The second point I made (according to you anyway) is high profile games, what I meant by that is Kildare were on TV a lot so their players got to showcase themselves and Donegal played right up to
the semi final. Mayo played in 5 games, one of which was in London and the two Connacht games were in terrible conditions, Kerry played teams like tipp and Limerick (twice) on their way to an AI. So Kildare and Donegal players had a better shop window than Mayo for certain and, in some respects, kerry.

This isn't GAA snobbery, its one guys opinion, I don't agree with everything (cavanagh's selection for
starters) but your first post highlights the overreaction of people to the opinions of others. No matter who picks these types of things you'll have others who'll disagree but describing the original view as nonsense is, well, nonsense.

From Kerry, Sheehan, Tom O'Sullivan, the O'Se's, gooch and Darren o'sullivan would be the only contenders in my book and only Darren O'Sullivan and Sheehan would be certainties. For Mayo, andy Moran would be the only certainty, with Cillian O'Connor and maybe Vaughan and Higgins as possibles.
I don't know what your point about all stars to best game ratio is about.

I could do a Ross4life and produce loads of stats but I don't feel the need. Most Gaa fans will know that the vast majority or All Stars always come from the finalists, a few from semi-finalists and a token here and there. Your argument suggests it is about playing high profile games. It is as long as you are talking about the All-Ireland Final and the semis. Just because RTE decides to show every Kildare qualifier doesn't mean they deserve lots of All-Stars. .

The Connacht Final is a high profile game the standard of which was completely disregarded by the pundits. In hindsight the standard that day was a lot higher than their punditry. You Zulu in particular were lecturing on a Mayo thread on how we weren't producing good enough footballers. I hope you enjoyed the Cork game.

I can't quite believe you still can't understand my point, so I'll simplify it further - all stars are individual awards and should be given to those who perform best over the season, if that means one team gets them all or 15 different teams get one each and neither all Ireland finalist gets any then do be it. There will always be a few positions we can argue about but to call Ewan's team is nonsense is rubbish, it is a valid enough selection and certainly not an example of some GAA snobbery towards the west.

As for my point on Mayo footballers, I said ye produce plenty if good footballers but few outstanding ones. Most people, including Mayo people would agree. By the way I was at the cork/Mayo game and I throughly enjoyed roaring Mayo on to victory. I hope you did too.

[Fr. Cyril McDuff]

I cannot for the life of me understand how Sean Cavanagh can even be in contention for an All Star this year. Apart from against an average Roscommon side he had a poor enough year I thought. No doubt he'll get nominated at least, there seems to be a bit of an obsession with him among journalists - obviously a very very good player but to read some of the stuff about him you'd swear he was Maurice Fitz, Anthony Tohill and Peter Canavan combined.

[lynchbhoy]

imo I dont think Cavanagh had a great season - certainly not one to win any awards in.
The kerry and mayo teams played in the AI semi final - but with the greatest of respect - taking out two cork capitulations (whether caused by injuries or not) - this really was the easy side of the draw.
Mayo have a long way to go but are on the right track. Kerry would have struggled against Kildare, Donegal as well as Dublin imo.
but tis is opinion , and much like this thread's 'journo's' team of the year selection - is subjective and almost everyone will disagree with the 15 players on it !

its just a bit of craic.

[muppet]

I can't quite believe you still can't understand my point, so I'll simplify it further - all stars are individual awards and should be given to those who perform best over the season, if that means one team gets them all or 15 different teams get one each and neither all Ireland finalist gets any then do be it. There will always be a few positions we can argue about but to call Ewan's team is nonsense is rubbish, it is a valid enough selection and certainly not an example of some GAA snobbery towards the west.

As for my point on Mayo footballers, I said ye produce plenty if good footballers but few outstanding ones. Most people, including Mayo people would agree. By the way I was at the cork/Mayo game and I throughly enjoyed roaring Mayo on to victory. I hope you did too.

If you want individuals watch the X-factor.

This is still a team game. It is about winning your province and then winning the All-Ireland. The best individuals are those who did the most to ensure their teams won, titles and the big games.

3 Donegal and 2 Kildare is a bad joke.

For the record Cooper should get one this year, he won a semi-final almost on his won, but in the daft logic of Gaa All-Stars probably won't.

[Hill16 Blues]

McKenna has always been a bitter anti Dublin bluffer!!. Stuff him and all the other anti Dublin jounos and posters here. The next 12 months are going to be painful time for him and his ilk!!

We will deservedly get 6/7 all stars, player of the year and have good chance of young player of the year!! Couldn't care less who gets the rest of them!!!

Up the Dubs - All Ireland Champions 2011!!! Love it!!!!

[J70]

I can't quite believe you still can't understand my point, so I'll simplify it further - all stars are individual awards and should be given to those who perform best over the season, if that means one team gets them all or 15 different teams get one each and neither all Ireland finalist gets any then do be it. There will always be a few positions we can argue about but to call Ewan's team is nonsense is rubbish, it is a valid enough selection and certainly not an example of some GAA snobbery towards the west.

As for my point on Mayo footballers, I said ye produce plenty if good footballers but few outstanding ones. Most people, including Mayo people would agree. By the way I was at the cork/Mayo game and I throughly enjoyed roaring Mayo on to victory. I hope you did too.

If you want individuals watch the X-factor.

This is still a team game. It is about winning your province and then winning the All-Ireland. The best individuals are those who did the most to ensure their teams won, titles and the big games.

3 Donegal and 2 Kildare is a bad joke.

For the record Cooper should get one this year, he won a semi-final almost on his won, but in the daft logic of Gaa All-Stars probably won't.

By your rationale, the likes of Declan Browne or Matty Forde or Karl Lacey should never have won an All Star. No player from Leitrim or Fermanagh or Louth should never even be considered, except perhaps during the once in a generation period when those counties happen upon an unusually talented bunch that allow them to reach a provincial final or even AI quarter final. No matter how good they perform themselves, if they're surrounded by donkeys, then they're not All Star material. Is that how you see it?

[heffo]

What club is this chap from ?

St James Gaels in Dublin- plays Div 11 with them.

Athy originally I believe.

I wouldn't be getting worked up by what a blogger who worked as a journalist for a short time thinks to be honest.

[muppet]

I can't quite believe you still can't understand my point, so I'll simplify it further - all stars are individual awards and should be given to those who perform best over the season, if that means one team gets them all or 15 different teams get one each and neither all Ireland finalist gets any then do be it. There will always be a few positions we can argue about but to call Ewan's team is nonsense is rubbish, it is a valid enough selection and certainly not an example of some GAA snobbery towards the west.

As for my point on Mayo footballers, I said ye produce plenty if good footballers but few outstanding ones. Most people, including Mayo people would agree. By the way I was at the cork/Mayo game and I throughly enjoyed roaring Mayo on to victory. I hope you did too.

If you want individuals watch the X-factor.

This is still a team game. It is about winning your province and then winning the All-Ireland. The best individuals are those who did the most to ensure their teams won, titles and the big games.

3 Donegal and 2 Kildare is a bad joke.

For the record Cooper should get one this year, he won a semi-final almost on his won, but in the daft logic of Gaa All-Stars probably won't.

By your rationale, the likes of Declan Browne or Matty Forde or Karl Lacey should never have won an All Star. No player from Leitrim or Fermanagh or Louth should never even be considered, except perhaps during the once in a generation period when those counties happen upon an unusually talented bunch that allow them to reach a provincial final or even AI quarter final. No matter how good they perform themselves, if they're surrounded by donkeys, then they're not All Star material. Is that how you see it?

But eh that is when Leitrim (1 of their 2 in 1994), Louth (only one in 2010 - real Leinster Champs!) and Fermanagh got most of their All-Stars. Browne and Forde on their day were exceptional players who deserved their recognition, none of the 3 Donegal mentioned come anywhere near them.

Ciarán McDonald, Liam McHale and TJ Kilgallon were class for many years, but only got 1 All-Star each. To win them Mayo had to get to All-Ireland finals (TJ excepted).

Hard to figure out your argument here. Do the Donegal 3 deserve All-Stars because they won Ulster? Or is it because they individually played brilliantly as part of a 13 man defense?