Martin Mc Guinness is one of the great leaders of the modern times !

[Maguire01]

Would be interesting to hear the reaction of 'ordinary Unioinists' (i.e. rather than the likes of Campbell and Allister, who were opposing it before they even knew what was going to be said) to the speech. I'd question its value, especially as the clips that are being shown in the media are of smoke being blown up SF's ass. I don't know what the wider benefit of that would be.

[Myles Na G.]

Fair play to the Rev Latimer.
Campbell and that bitter lemon Allister once again show themselves up for the bitter twisted hate filled C*NTS that they are.

Obviously "Trout" would prefer fighting to people getting along.

Yeah everyone is getting along because of a PR stunt. Catch a grip ffs.

I would not call it a PR stunt Trout. Would you not give it a bit more credit than that? A religious leader offers some encouragement to a political leader to work for peace. Is there nothing good about that?

Encouragement is one thing. Allowing yourself to be used by a political group to promote their own image is a different matter. I don't doubt that Latimer is genuine in his efforts to help reconciliation in our community, but is this the best way to do it? All he has done is to alienate a large section of his own 'constituency'. That sort of makes him a busted flush in terms of any future peace building work.

[lawnseed]

Fair play to the Rev Latimer.
Campbell and that bitter lemon Allister once again show themselves up for the bitter twisted hate filled C*NTS that they are.

Obviously "Trout" would prefer fighting to people getting along.

Yeah everyone is getting along because of a PR stunt. Catch a grip ffs.

I would not call it a PR stunt Trout. Would you not give it a bit more credit than that? A religious leader offers some encouragement to a political leader to work for peace. Is there nothing good about that?

Encouragement is one thing. Allowing yourself to be used by a political group to promote their own image is a different matter. I don't doubt that Latimer is genuine in his efforts to help reconciliation in our community, but is this the best way to do it? All he has done is to alienate a large section of his own 'constituency'. That sort of makes him a busted flush in terms of any future peace building work.

i think he has a congregation not a 'constituency'. and if he loses his congregation well at least he didnt do it like our crowd did- pulling the pants off someones child

[Myles Na G.]

Fair play to the Rev Latimer.
Campbell and that bitter lemon Allister once again show themselves up for the bitter twisted hate filled C*NTS that they are.

Obviously "Trout" would prefer fighting to people getting along.

Yeah everyone is getting along because of a PR stunt. Catch a grip ffs.

I would not call it a PR stunt Trout. Would you not give it a bit more credit than that? A religious leader offers some encouragement to a political leader to work for peace. Is there nothing good about that?

Encouragement is one thing. Allowing yourself to be used by a political group to promote their own image is a different matter. I don't doubt that Latimer is genuine in his efforts to help reconciliation in our community, but is this the best way to do it? All he has done is to alienate a large section of his own 'constituency'. That sort of makes him a busted flush in terms of any future peace building work.

i think he has a congregation not a 'constituency'. and if he loses his congregation well at least he didnt do it like our crowd did- pulling the pants off someones child

I wasn't using the word constituency in its literal sense, something I thought I'd flagged up by putting it inside quotation marks. 

[lawnseed]

Fair play to the Rev Latimer.
Campbell and that bitter lemon Allister once again show themselves up for the bitter twisted hate filled C*NTS that they are.

Obviously "Trout" would prefer fighting to people getting along.

Yeah everyone is getting along because of a PR stunt. Catch a grip ffs.

I would not call it a PR stunt Trout. Would you not give it a bit more credit than that? A religious leader offers some encouragement to a political leader to work for peace. Is there nothing good about that?

Encouragement is one thing. Allowing yourself to be used by a political group to promote their own image is a different matter. I don't doubt that Latimer is genuine in his efforts to help reconciliation in our community, but is this the best way to do it? All he has done is to alienate a large section of his own 'constituency'. That sort of makes him a busted flush in terms of any future peace building work.

i think he has a congregation not a 'constituency'. and if he loses his congregation well at least he didnt do it like our crowd did- pulling the pants off someones child

I wasn't using the word constituency in its literal sense, something I thought I'd flagged up by putting it inside quotation marks. 

i know i was being sarscastic something i thought i flagged up by using '...'

[Tonto]

I wouldn't be getting carried away.  It's the opinion of one man who knows McGuinness personally; most unionists probably wouldn't agree.  Like if I said a mate of mine was one of the greatest mechanics of modern times it would hardly carry water FFS.

That said, I suppose as far as cross-community relations in Londonderry go it's a positive move.

[Denn Forever]

I wonder will this be a talking pont/question that will be discufgssed on Question Time next thursday?  Its is coming from the city with 2 names.

[4father]

Completely disagree with this concept of leadership.  Leadership should be organic and constantly in cycle, this SF leadership have been the leadership for much too long.  If leadership is based on censoring your own party dissidents, controlling 'debates', character assassination and co-ordinating decisions to look they are democratically taken then he and the Beard are certainly in that bracket.  To me, its not leadership though.  SF have removed radical thinking and instead have endorsed the British strategy of 'Ulsterisation, Criminalisation and Normalisation' by stealth in exchange for power. 

Call it leadership if you will but no amount of free tickets tot he ardfheis and clapping SF supporters will convince me otherwise.  Republicanism is over thanks to Martin, Gerry and Co.

[lawnseed]

Completely disagree with this concept of leadership.  Leadership should be organic and constantly in cycle, this SF leadership have been the leadership for much too long.  If leadership is based on censoring your own party dissidents, controlling 'debates', character assassination and co-ordinating decisions to look they are democratically taken then he and the Beard are certainly in that bracket.  To me, its not leadership though.  SF have removed radical thinking and instead have endorsed the British strategy of 'Ulsterisation, Criminalisation and Normalisation' by stealth in exchange for power. 

Call it leadership if you will but no amount of free tickets tot he ardfheis and clapping SF supporters will convince me otherwise.  Republicanism is over thanks to Martin, Gerry and Co.

republicanism is over?  gerry and martin are approaching the end of their usefulness as icons of sinn fein that is true. but with leaders like john o dowd and michelle gildernew ready to take over theres nothing to worry about from a shinner point of view. mitchell mcloughlin was once the face of sinn fein but he faded comfortably into the background as will gerry and martin.

[4father]

After how many years? Revolutions should be in constant cycle of organic leadership.

Is that John  O'Dowd who refused pittance funding only last week for two Irish language speaking nursuries? Yip, he's definitely leadership material.

Anyway, it doesnt matter who is in leadership positions, their leadership wasnt the leadership we all call leadership!!! It was pure dictatorship with their dogs (not gonna put their names on this) running about shutting every ounce of dissent up with bullying, censorship, careful planning of decision making and character assassination.

Theres an argument to say thats leadership, i dont buy it especially when it has led to the copperfastening of the unionist veto, the beginning of destruction of working class communities, being in bed with M15 and sitting dishing out the British governments cuts for them.

FS you should know you've cocked up when Tony Blair, George Bush etc are congratulating your every move and when British government officials (Powell) are writing your ard fheis speeches for you!!!!!

[lawnseed]

i'm not sure whos writing the speeches or whether speeches even matter since anything thats said in modern politics is usually quickly set aside if and when the occasion arises. tony blair  was cosying up to gaddaffi this time last year so his words carry little meaning. i think the realisation that theres no way that republicanism could force loyalism or vice versa to do anything they didnt want to do and the ability to change a mindset is martin mc guinness' legacy to modern irish politics and while the situation may not suit everyone thankfully enough of us think its a step in the right direction and thats democracy

[4father]

See it depends on your personal ideology i suppose, maybe i was one of those naive republicans who after jail was convinced that the struggle was worth fighting still for when freed. Its when you add everything up i.e. the deaths of volunteers and civilians after '94 or even before were sacraficed by Adams and McGuinness so that a climate could be created that would endorse their strategy etc that you begin to realise that all was never as it seemed and the rallies were about securing support for Adams and McGuinness rather than the revolution.

Maybe you didnt understand what I wrote about Tony Blair. His intellegence aide (Jonathan Powell) was writing Gerry Adams' and Martin McGuinness' ARDFHEIS speeches for him. The British Government, responsible for everything from plantation to bloody sunday and everything in between were writing SF speeches for them that Republicans were cheering and applauding and pumping their fists to.  Now who's strategy was it? Its a British strategy being endorsed and implemented by SF through the 'leadership' of Adams and McGuinness.

Now you might see it as a step forward but to me, it has led to the copperfastening of the unionist veto, the beginning of destruction of working class communities and the dishing out the British governments cuts for them (those scraps from the table that SF is supposed to be making Social change from). 

Voters and supporters are fickle, they will vote for someone if they kiss a baby ffs.  Constitutional middle of the road nationalism is a trend in Ireland. Because SF receieves the majority of the nationalist vote does not mean that there arr more republicabs out there.  You only need to look at the demise of the SDLP vote to understand where they are getting the extra votes from and les face it, i dont think that we could ever call the SDLP vote a radical left republican vote.

[Maguire01]

Maybe you didnt understand what I wrote about Tony Blair. His intellegence aide (Colin Powell) was writing Gerry Adams' and Martin McGuinness' ARDFHEIS speeches for him.

I assume you're talking about Jonathan Powell? Colin Powell is the former US Secretary of State.

[The Worker]

Maybe you didnt understand what I wrote about Tony Blair. His intellegence aide (Colin Powell) was writing Gerry Adams' and Martin McGuinness' ARDFHEIS speeches for him.

I assume you're talking about Jonathan Powell? Colin Powell is the former US Secretary of State.

asafa powell

[lawnseed]

you seem to be advocating a sort of north african style of revolution where the people rise up a kick out the government? who would lead that type of change here? just how far would it go and how long do you think it would last with the raf controlling the skies? as you have aleady indicated the brits have been setting the agenda in ireland (not just the six) for centuries plotting planning scheming.. they could have stopped the struggle in ireland easily with an iron fist instead they let it simmer away.. even toyed with it. i suggest you get on with your life and make the best of a bad situation.