Love Libya March

[Trout]

Colin Parry hopeful of settlement after Gadaffis death



The father of a child killed by the Warrington bomb has said he hopes Col Muammar Gaddafi's death will lead to a "speedy settlement" of legal claims by IRA victims.

Colin Parry's 13-year-old son Tim died in the 1993 attack. Semtex provided by Col Gaddafi's regime was used to make the IRA bomb.

Mr Parry is involved in a class action against the Libyan authorities.

He said Col Gaddafi's death does not absolve Libya of responsibility.

"I hope we are closer to a conclusion. It has been a long campaign," he added.

"The temporary government has been helped considerably by the British and the French in overcoming Col Gaddafi's regime. And in a sense the new the emerging nation of Libya owes a debt to this country.

"So I would hope that factor, allied to the natural justice of our claim, would lead to a speedy settlement."

'Done deal'
DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson said that he believed compensation for the 150 victims' families involved in the legal action could be fixed within months.

He added that "significant progress" had been made at a Foreign Office meeting this week.


Tim Parry was 13 when he was killed by the IRA
On Thursday fighters loyal to Libya's National Transitional Council said they found the country's former dictator hiding in a hole in his hometown of Sirte.

They shot him when he tried to escape.

Mr Parry said he blamed the IRA "entirely" for his son's death. He died alongside three-year-old Jonathan Ball in the explosion in Warrington town centre.

However, Mr Parry added that Col Gaddafi had contributed to the IRA's "effectiveness" and said that without his help the group would not have been able to claim as many lives.

"I personally wished he had been apprehend and put on trial. That would have been a better outcome.

"But the fact is he is dead. That's a done deal."

[seafoid]

From the WTF department

MI6 role in Libyan rebels' rendition 'helped to strengthen al-Qaida'
Secret documents reveal British intelligence concerns and raise damaging questions about UK's targeting of Gaddafi opponents
•   Ian Birrell
•   guardian.co.uk, Monday 24 October 2011 20.28 BST
•   Article history

Britain already faces legal action over its involvement in the plot to seize Abdul Hakim Belhaj, who is now the military commander in Tripoli. Photograph: Francois Mori/AP
British intelligence believes the capture and rendition of two top Libyan rebel commanders, carried out with the involvement of MI6, strengthened al-Qaida and helped groups attacking British forces in Iraq, secret documents reveal.
The papers, discovered in the British ambassador's abandoned residence in Tripoli, raise new and damaging questions over Britain's role in the seizure and torture of key opponents of Muammar Gaddafi's regime.
Britain is already facing legal actions over its involvement in the plot to seize Abdul Hakim Belhaj, leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) who is now the military commander in Tripoli, and his deputy, Sami al-Saadi. Both men say they were tortured and jailed after being handed over to Gaddafi.
The documents reveal that British intelligence believe the pair's rendition boosted al-Qaida by removing more moderate elements from the insurgency's leadership. This allowed extremists to push "a relatively close-knit group" focused on overthrowing Gaddafi into joining the pan-Islamist terror network.
One document, headed "UK/Libya eyes only - Secret", showed the security services had monitored LIFG members since their arrival in Britain following a failed attempt to kill Gaddafi in 1996, and understood their aim was the replacement of his regime with an Islamic state.
The briefing paper, prepared by the security service for a four-day MI5 visit in February 2005, said that following the seizure of its two key leaders the year before the group had been cast into a state of disarray.
"The extremists are now in the ascendancy," the paper said, and they were "pushing the group towards a more pan-Islamic agenda inspired by AQ [al-Qaida]".
Their "broadened" goals, it continued, were now also the destabilisation of Arab governments that were not following sharia law and the liberation of Muslim territories occupied by the west.
The 58-page document, which included names, photographs and detailed biographies of a dozen alleged LIFG members in the UK, went on to highlight "conclusions of concern" in the light of these changes.
These included the sending of money and false documents to a contact in Iran to help smuggle fighters into Iraq, where British and US forces were coming under fierce attack. "UK members have long enjoyed a reputation as the best suppliers of false documents in the worldwide extremist community," said the report. It added that British LIFG members were becoming "increasingly ambitious" at fundraising through fast-food restaurants, fraud, property and car dealing, and raised nearly all the money for the group outside of Libya.British security also asked Gaddafi's security forces for access to detainees and their debriefs.
Asked about the document, a Foreign Office spokesman said: "It is the government's longstanding policy not to comment on intelligence matters."
The LIFG eventually merged with al-Qaida in 2007. However, a second document, a secret update on Libyan extremist networks in the UK from August 2008, says the response of British members was "subdued and mixed".
It concluded that those already supporting the wider aims of al-Qaida continued to do so, but "those with reservations retain their focus on Libya". It added, however, that some money raised by members in Manchester may have gone to "assist operational activity".
The cache of confidential documents - which included private letters to Gaddafi from Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and key Downing Street aides - was abandoned when the three-story residence was attacked by Gaddafi loyalists in April. .
There was also a dossier prepared by British intelligence with suggested questions for the captured men. The 39-page document, entitled Briefs for Detainees and labelled "UK Secret" on each page, was written in three sections in March, June and October 2004.
The first section is dated the month of Belhaj's arrest, and sought answers on everything from his private life to his military training, activities in Afghanistan and links to al-Qaida. There were also personalised questions for Saadi.
The LIFG, founded by veterans of the mujahideen's war against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, was for many years the most serious internal threat to Gaddafi, coming close to blowing up the dictator with a car bomb in his home town of Sirte in 1996. The government denied claims by David Shayler, the renegade British spy, that this assassination attempt was funded by British intelligence.
After Gaddafi's clampdown on the group, dozens of dissidents were allowed to settle in Britain. London only designated the LIFG a terrorist organisation after Libya said it was abandoning its weapons of mass destruction programme in 2003. The move is understood to have been agreed as part of the negotiations with Gaddafi's regime that paved the way to the controversial Blair deal.
Belhaj, now a key figure in liberated Libya, is preparing to sue Britain after other documents discovered in the wake of Gaddafi's fall indicated that MI6 assisted in his rendition to torture and brutal treatment from the CIA and Gaddafi's regime.
MI6 informed the CIA of his whereabouts after his associates told British diplomats in Malaysia he wanted to claim asylum in Britain.
He was allowed to board a flight to London, then abducted when his aircraft landed at Bangkok.
Belhaj claims he was suspended from a ceiling and tortured at Bangkok airport before spending six years in solitary confinement at Tripoli's notorious Abu Selim jail. He also alleges that he was questioned by three British agents, one a woman, who ignored his complaints about mistreatment, and that his pregnant wife was also beaten.
Belhaj has claimed repeatedly that his sole motivation was the overthrow of the Gaddafi regime and that he had no interest in the goals or activities of al-Qaida.
David Mepham, UK director of Human Rights Watch, said: "It is extraordinary and shameful that Britain should have supported the rendition of individuals back to Libya, given that human rights abuses under Gaddafi were so egregious, widespread and well-documented."

[Nally Stand]

Anybody see Channel 4 news? Reported that one of the videos of Gadaffi's capture shows him being sexually assaulted "with what looks to be a metal pipe"  They showed the first seconds of the video and froze it to identify the person who did it but could not show any more as it was "too graphic".

[Minder]

Anybody see Channel 4 news? Reported that one of the videos of Gadaffi's capture shows him being sexually assaulted "with what looks to be a metal pipe"  They showed the first seconds of the video and froze it to identify the person who did it but could not show any more as it was "too graphic".

As I said the other day, one set of animals replacing another.

[NAG1]

One of the first rules/ laws the new regime brought in was to abolish the one man one wife policy, to go for the multi wives islamic traditional model. Good to see they have their priorities straight. Beggars belief in this day and age. 

[muppet]

Ok right.

Assuming you could afford it, have a house big enough and it was legal etc.

Would you prefer to have 7 wives or 1?

[Minder]

Ok right.

Assuming you could afford it, have a house big enough and it was legal etc.

Would you prefer to have 7 wives or 1?

As long as the house was big enough to keep them in a separate wing.

[NAG1]

Ok right.

Assuming you could afford it, have a house big enough and it was legal etc.

Would you prefer to have 7 wives or 1?

Your obviously not married muppet! 

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Ok right.

Assuming you could afford it, have a house big enough and it was legal etc.

Would you prefer to have 7 wives or 1?

Your obviously not married muppet! 

+1

Jaysus you're head would be melted if you had more then one ! 

[Hardy]

Aaaaaarrrrgggh

[Main Street]

Anybody see Channel 4 news? Reported that one of the videos of Gadaffi's capture shows him being sexually assaulted "with what looks to be a metal pipe"  They showed the first seconds of the video and froze it to identify the person who did it but could not show any more as it was "too graphic".

As I said the other day, one set of animals replacing another.

Yes Minder, no doubt the result of exhaustive analysis based on the day by day facts of the uprising against Gaddafi and knowledge of how the Libyans intend to move on from this post-Gaddafi position, you conclude from this capture and brutal treatment of a captured despot that all Libyans who ready to assume leadership responsibility, are a set of animals.

[muppet]

Ok right.

Assuming you could afford it, have a house big enough and it was legal etc.

Would you prefer to have 7 wives or 1?

Your obviously not married muppet! 

I sure am.

[seafoid]

There is no point in Philip Hammond blaming the Libyans for the death of Gaddafi (Report, 24 October). The Gaddafi convoy was hit by a US drone. But for the drone, the Gaddafi convoy would have left Sirte unscathed. The convoy was leaving the scene and was not engaged in hostilities, so the attack was contrary to the Geneva convention. It is little surprise that the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov has called for a UN inquiry. It is illegal under US law for the US to be involved in the killing of a foreign head of state. Obama should be held responsible.

Terri Jackson
Bangor, County Down

[orangeman]

There is no point in Philip Hammond blaming the Libyans for the death of Gaddafi (Report, 24 October). The Gaddafi convoy was hit by a US drone. But for the drone, the Gaddafi convoy would have left Sirte unscathed. The convoy was leaving the scene and was not engaged in hostilities, so the attack was contrary to the Geneva convention. It is little surprise that the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov has called for a UN inquiry. It is illegal under US law for the US to be involved in the killing of a foreign head of state. Obama should be held responsible.

Terri Jackson
Bangor, County Down

Naive in the extreme.

[Minder]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/free-libya-shamed-by-new-torture-claims-6295394.html

"Free" Libya shamed by new torture claims

The moral authority of Libya's new government was called into question by two international aid groups yesterday as confidence begins to falter that the National Transitional Council, backed by Western governments in last year's civil war, can deliver on its promises to deliver freedom and democracy.

Médecins sans Frontières (MSF) brought an abrupt halt to its operations in the Libyan town of Misrata after being asked by officials to treat torture victims, in some cases to allow members of the country's new leadership to abuse the prisoners again.

The move came as Amnesty International said it has collected evidence that Gaddafi supporters had been tortured to death in makeshift detention centres.

The claims by MSF in Libya's third largest town – a centre of resistance against the Gaddafi regime last year – come amid growing concern for the security situation and evidence of human rights violations. Earlier this week, fighters loyal to the former dictator raised the old Libyan green standard above the key oil town of Bani Walid after fighting that led to at least four deaths.

Human rights groups have repeatedly raised concerns that local authorities have routinely used torture against suspected opponents. In particular, they warned that sub-Saharan Africans, who were accused of being mercenaries during the nine-month conflict, are being targeted. MSF has been working in Misrata since last August and the group says it has been increasingly confronted with patients who have injuries caused by torture during interrogation sessions outside official detention centres and jails.

MSF has treated 115 people with torture-related wounds and reported all the cases to authorities in Misrata. Since January, several of the patients who were returned to interrogation centres have been tortured again, MSF said in a statement. "Some officials have sought to exploit and obstruct MSF's medical work," said the charity's general director, Christopher Stokes. "Patients were brought to us for medical care between interrogation sessions, so that they would be fit for further interrogation. This is unacceptable.

"Our role is to provide medical care to war casualties and sick detainees, not to repeatedly treat the same patients between torture sessions."

Other humanitarian groups have raised fears. Amnesty International revealed that several prisoners accused of being Gaddafi loyalists died as a result of torture while being held in makeshift detention centres. Delegates from the group had found visible evidence of torture on detainees during visits to prisons.

The United Nations envoy to Libya, Ian Martin, said the NTC was failing to rein in militia groups: "The former regime may have been toppled, but the harsh reality is that the Libyan people continue to have to live with its deep-rooted legacy."

The allegations come almost a year after the start of the uprising against Gaddafi's 40-year rule. After initially being brutally suppressed, the rebel movement blossomed with assistance from a Nato bombing campaign.

Speaking in August last year, David Cameron said: "There will undoubtedly be difficult days ahead. No transition is ever smooth or easy.

"But today the Arab Spring is a step further away from oppression and dictatorship and a step closer to freedom and democracy. And the Libyan people are closer to their dream of a better future."

Last night, the Foreign Office urged the NTC to investigate the charities' reports. "The MSF report is shocking and the Libyan authorities should thoroughly investigate the claims. We condemn all human rights abuses and have repeatedly made clear that the transitional government must live up to the standards that it has set for itself and make a clean break with the past," a spokesman said.

In its report, Amnesty said it had found that detainees had been suspended in contorted positions, beaten for hours with whips, cables, plastic hoses, metal chains and bars and wooden sticks, and given electric shocks with live wires and Taser-like electro-shock weapons.

"After all the promises to get detention centres under control, it is horrifying to find that there has been no progress to stop the use of torture," said Donatella Rovera, of Amnesty.

Last July, Human Rights Watch reported widespread looting and arson by the Nato-backed rebels.

What has gone wrong, and what needs to be done?

The growing anti-government protest movement

The country is run by the National Transitional Council (NTC), whose popularity has waned since the revolution. Critics say it lacks transparency, has been slow to restore basic public services and that too many of it members are tainted by their previous roles in Gaddafi's regime. Since October, there have been protests in Benghazi, where the revolution first began in February last year. These reached a head on 21 January, when armed protesters stormed the NTC's headquarters there, hurling grenades and homemade bombs while the council's chairman, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, was inside. The NTC has promised to disband once elections are held for an interim government. Voting is scheduled to take place in six months, but there are fears they could be postponed.



The lawless militias

The ragtag rebel army, that surprised the world when it successfully marched on Tripoli last year, is being slowly disbanded. But it's not soon enough for many Libyans. In recent months, there have been several fatalities as militias from rival cities clash. This week, four were killed in fighting in Bani Walid. A plan to reintegrate the fighters by enrolling them in the armed forces has had limited uptake. In Wednesday's UN report, Libya envoy Ian Martin warned that the NTC had failed to bring the armed militias under control and that these clashes could escalate.



The defeated Gaddafi loyalists

Many of Gaddafi's most high profile supporters have fled the country. His family members are either dead, exiled or imprisoned. But it's another story for the lower-level supporters and the thousands who fought the late dictator's army. The UN report said delegates from the International Committee of the Red Cross reported viewing over 8,000 detainees in 60 makeshift detention centres around the country. Some form of justice will eventually have to be meted out to these inmates, but so far there has been little discussion of what form this might take. Some of those who "lost" in the civil uprising have experienced vigilante justice at the hands of the NTC's fighters, who have been responsible for looting, arson and extra-judicial killings in pro-Gaddafi towns such as Sirte and Tawargha. Preventing revenge attacks and healing the wounds of the conflict must be one of the NTC's priorities.



The fate of Saif al-Islam

Gaddafi's most prominent son, below, and one-time heir apparent is being held in the small mountain town of Zintan, an hour's drive south of Tripoli. He's been there since he was captured in November. The International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for him in June last year – but the militia fighters who captured hold him say they want to try him in the country, where if convicted, he would face the death penalty.



Getting business going again

Economic grievances were at the heart of the Arab Spring – and the revolt in oil-rich Libya. But three months on from the death of Gaddafi, banks are still not fully operational and there is a cap on cash withdrawals which means businesses relying on regular cash flow are struggling. There is also uncertainty over whether – as an unelected government – the NTC can authorise the deals needed to unlock the country's potential.



Missing people

Thousand of people are still missing. Some were killed in fighting, while others kidnapped by Gaddafi's forces. Many disappeared in prisons under the former regime or are in makeshift detention centres. A database of all the people still missing is being compiled, and DNA samples are being taken from mass graves being excavated. But it will be some time before the thousands can be identified.



Border security

Libya's southern border with Chad, Niger and Mali, is notoriously difficult to police. The area has long been a conduit for weapons and migrants from sub-Saharan African coming into southern Europe. This flow of weapons has long worried Libya's neighbours and the international community, which are fearful they could fall into the hands of terrorist groups active in the region.