Where next for Donegal?

[Jinxy]

The pub?

[sheamy]

The pub?

I'd say that's a good bet. They'll celebrate the Ulster title properly now. There'll be a few heffers bulled round Letterkenny in the coming weekends.

[Goldengreen]

Some hysterical over reaction to Donegals tactics, to understand them people need to look at the bigger picture. After all Tyrone we crucified when they appeared with their blanked defense now coming up on ten years of they are lauded, well donegal are at the start of that journey.  People say we had no Plan B and indeed we did not have a Plan B but as a proud Donegal supporter I am not to worried about that this year due to the fact that we had a Plan A, the last good few years Donegal teams did not even have a Plan A. Not having a Plan A all came to a head in Crossmaglen Last year and the tanking we got from Armagh, coming out of that game we really feared that we would have gotten regulated to Division 3 in the coming year, in fact in the last few years Donegal have been a bottom half team if not a bottom 8 team. Donegal opened their league with Sligo it was even said on this forum that this would be the regulation match :-)

There was never any pride shown in the jersey, there was never any excitement for our supporters, now that is all changed there is huge pride in the jersey from the players to the supporters and such a buzz around the county this past few weeks it really has promoted  the GAA in our county, after all we are mostly a soccer county and also  Rugby getting more of a foothold as well. At least the focus is on the Donegal GAA team and all positive in this county, surly this is for the betterment of our games. Hey winning ugly and the ultra blanket defense does not still totally well with us Donegal supporters but we are also very realistic after horrendous few years we did have, we know we had to start some where and defense is the best place to start, but with the defense now in place and we are getting into the habit of winning again expect to see donegals game evolve more, and expect to see some more attacking football, when its called for and defense when that is called for, this is Jims next goal the next stage in his 5 year plan.


We are not naive in Donegal and I am sure the rest of the country is the same to know that playing with just a blanket defense will not win you an all irelands, and that was shown on Sunday, Our set up this year was done to achieve a few goals:
1. Get Donegal back to winning ways
2. Get pride back in the jersey, get the players to want to play for their county.
3. Get some belief back into the team that they can compete.

These goals were well an truly achieved. But this is only the start of the journey, Jim knows and has said publicy that we need to shore up a few position to as to make us a more attacking team and to go forward more and take our scores, this will happen, and mark my words, Donegal will be in for a shout for an all ireland title with in the next five years.

At the start of the season I would have take the following: 1. To stay in Div 2 and not get regulated; 2. Finally get a win in the ulster championship after 3 years of getting beat at home, wow were my expectations well and truly shattered. Div 2 Champs, Ulster Champs and to make it to a all ireland semi, dont care what anyone say but any other supporter from any other county would have taken the arm off some one for that kind of season at the start of the year.

Pat Spillane and the likes would almost just rather see the same team complete each year for the all ireland, surly that is not good for our games, just look at the hurling its the same few teams each year. Surly it better that these top 3 teams are challenged and made to work for their all irelands.

All I can say watch this space from a  proud Donegal Supporter.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

After all Tyrone we crucified when they appeared with their blanked defense now coming up on ten years of they are lauded, well donegal are at the start of that journey...

Fair dues there Goldengreen, you've every right to be extremely proud of your team.

But, you're incorrect in that statement above (to equate our system with yours): at no time in our games at any stage of our evolutionary cycle did we utilise the single solitary attacker in the oppostion half for our kickouts as a strategic ploy, never.

If what we employed was a 'blanket defence', then your lads were employing a 'fire blanket defence'.

[Hardy]

The ten meanest defences by average score conceded - League and Championship combined.

Longford        10.83
Donegal         11.43
Leitrim           11.55
Kildare           12.21
Roscommon    12.77
Fermanagh     12.90
Kerry             13.08
Louth            13.60
Tyrone           14.00
Wexford         14.17

[muppet]

Maybe next year, after they go ahead in a match, they could get the keeper to hoof every ball out of the stadium. Eventually they will run out of footballs and the ref will have to declare them winners.

End justifying means, within the rules and all that.

[Hardy]

Picking on Longford now?

[muppet]

Picking on Longford now?

I didn't realise this had been tried before.

[Rossfan]

Relegation Golden Green Relegation !!!! 

[Goldengreen]

After all Tyrone we crucified when they appeared with their blanked defense now coming up on ten years of they are lauded, well donegal are at the start of that journey...

Fair dues there Goldengreen, you've every right to be extremely proud of your team.

But, you're incorrect in that statement above (to equate our system with yours): at no time in our games at any stage of our evolutionary cycle did we utilise the single solitary attacker in the oppostion half for our kickouts as a strategic ploy, never.

If what we employed was a 'blanket defence', then your lads were employing a 'fire blanket defence'.

Yea let me correct that Fear ón Srath Bán, agree with you 100% there, what i meant was more equating the critriciam Tyrone got at the time to now being lauded. I like that 'fire blanket defence' good description and that is what we were, Tyrone had the Sean Cavanaghs that Donegal does not have yet but give it time.

[Jinxy]

The pub?

I'd say that's a good bet. They'll celebrate the Ulster title properly now. There'll be a few heffers bulled round Letterkenny in the coming weekends.

Colm McFadden is always the last man to get his pint.
The other lads have to pass it around amongst themselves for 20 minutes before they let him have it.

[cadence]

distance runners, especially marathon runners and even more so ultra marathon runners, put huge mileage on the clock weekly and constantly, being in training all the time (including cross-training) without the body giving out. it's not a case of impossible to achieve the level of fitness mcguinness wants to implement his strategy, a fair few of those players just don't have enough training under them. building up that speed endurance and overall endurance takes more time than the year they've had. building on their training regimes, i'd expect those donegal players to be well able to manage the full 70mins next year. if they kept training they'll be able to go for even longer. it's not just about speed endurance either to control the lactate build and the improve recovery times, overall muscle endurance is important too, hence they ran out of gas. none of those lads are anywhere near the fitness they can achieve. with enough years of training under them, they'd be able to play 2 games like that back-to-back. it's very achieveable i think. currently, it's a 35mins intense fartleks session, with a break to refuel and stretch, followed by another 35mins fartleks session. any experienced runner will tell you the same. you simply need to train properly and for long enough to achieve the goal you have. i def think we'll see more of the same next year. but i would expect them to have the legs to be able to push on and attack teams in the last 20mins. i think that's what he'll try to do.

Interesting enough that Cadence.
This may prove to be true, However all the stamina training in the world does not take into account the hits that you get in Gaelic football. You don't get them in hurling. Only American football, ice hockey and rugby will you get the same kind of physical contact and these other sports lads wear some element of body armour/pads.
Taking a lot of hits takes it out of you.
IMO Donegal were up there as the fittest team in the country – having eclipsed Kildare and Dublin – but they had to be in order to play that kind of game and last the 70 minutes.
If it was just running then Donegal wouldn't have the problem, its how they use their bodies to absorb runners and tackles etc. This will cause or accelerate injury more than ordinary running as a fatigued body shipping a tackle can more easily be put off balance and injure an ankle, knee or hamstring etc.

We are comparing these Gaelic footballers to professional athletes also. Our lads don't have the luxury of being able to train, rest and get supplemental foods paid for them etc. We have a lad doing his days work, driving to training, doing a 2-3 hour session and heading home to be in bed by midnight if he's lucky – before he gets up early to head to work again.
It doesn't even have to be physical work these days, its just the constant strain on the body with no lengthy period of rest for the body or worse – the brain.
It may not be rocket science, but when you are a player, your minds always flicks back to training, games and football. Its worse for managers though in that regard !

I have said over the last number of years that Tyrone would not win back to back All Irelands for the fatigue/injury reason. Their style of play demands too much of the body to sustain it over any more than a season – unless you have a massive and talented squad.
Even Kerry cant sustain consecutive seasons thee days – and their style of play is to use the ball more than the likes of Donegal, Dublin, Cork etc

This is all my own opinion, but while I think Donegal will be there or thereabouts again next year (and I have said for the past 6 or 7 years that Donegal had the talent to win Ulster and maybe more) it would surprise me if they don't have problems with injuries etc that will lessen their effectiveness.
I could be wrong and frequently am !!

distance runners, especially marathon runners and even more so ultra marathon runners, put huge mileage on the clock weekly and constantly, being in training all the time (including cross-training) without the body giving out. it's not a case of impossible to achieve the level of fitness mcguinness wants to implement his strategy, a fair few of those players just don't have enough training under them. building up that speed endurance and overall endurance takes more time than the year they've had. building on their training regimes, i'd expect those donegal players to be well able to manage the full 70mins next year. if they kept training they'll be able to go for even longer. it's not just about speed endurance either to control the lactate build and the improve recovery times, overall muscle endurance is important too, hence they ran out of gas. none of those lads are anywhere near the fitness they can achieve. with enough years of training under them, they'd be able to play 2 games like that back-to-back. it's very achieveable i think. currently, it's a 35mins intense fartleks session, with a break to refuel and stretch, followed by another 35mins fartleks session. any experienced runner will tell you the same. you simply need to train properly and for long enough to achieve the goal you have. i def think we'll see more of the same next year. but i would expect them to have the legs to be able to push on and attack teams in the last 20mins. i think that's what he'll try to do.

Interesting enough that Cadence.
This may prove to be true, However all the stamina training in the world does not take into account the hits that you get in Gaelic football. You don't get them in hurling. Only American football, ice hockey and rugby will you get the same kind of physical contact and these other sports lads wear some element of body armour/pads.
Taking a lot of hits takes it out of you.
IMO Donegal were up there as the fittest team in the country – having eclipsed Kildare and Dublin – but they had to be in order to play that kind of game and last the 70 minutes.
If it was just running then Donegal wouldn't have the problem, its how they use their bodies to absorb runners and tackles etc. This will cause or accelerate injury more than ordinary running as a fatigued body shipping a tackle can more easily be put off balance and injure an ankle, knee or hamstring etc.

We are comparing these Gaelic footballers to professional athletes also. Our lads don't have the luxury of being able to train, rest and get supplemental foods paid for them etc. We have a lad doing his days work, driving to training, doing a 2-3 hour session and heading home to be in bed by midnight if he's lucky – before he gets up early to head to work again.
It doesn't even have to be physical work these days, its just the constant strain on the body with no lengthy period of rest for the body or worse – the brain.
It may not be rocket science, but when you are a player, your minds always flicks back to training, games and football. Its worse for managers though in that regard !

I have said over the last number of years that Tyrone would not win back to back All Irelands for the fatigue/injury reason. Their style of play demands too much of the body to sustain it over any more than a season – unless you have a massive and talented squad.
Even Kerry cant sustain consecutive seasons thee days – and their style of play is to use the ball more than the likes of Donegal, Dublin, Cork etc

This is all my own opinion, but while I think Donegal will be there or thereabouts again next year (and I have said for the past 6 or 7 years that Donegal had the talent to win Ulster and maybe more) it would surprise me if they don't have problems with injuries etc that will lessen their effectiveness.
I could be wrong and frequently am !!

nobody i know into their gaa has ever agreed with me on my fitness theory. 

i was listening to highland radio after the game and rory gallagher was talking about the areas that he felt let us down. fitness was mentioned and i think he said something along the lines of it being needing to be addressed and if players couldn't give the required amount of commitment, "they're no good to us".

i think you're right, what is being asked of the donegal players is a level of fitness and body conditioning close to, if not at, professional athelete level. i take the point about the hits in gaa placing additional risk of injury on players in motion over normal athletics type of running, and that's true of any contact sport i suppose you could say. i think the key issue is the trade off/balance between bulk and power which also helps to take the regular hits (that raw anaerobic fitness you see in sprinters with bodies rippling with muscle fibre ready to explode) and aerobic fitness, the type you see on distance runners with light frames up top. it's getting the right balance of those two characteristics in place. some donegal players are there or there abouts. i'm thinking mcglynn here who has a good level of both types of fitness. if it isn't muscle, get it off because it's excess baggage and slowing you down.

i've read other's posts on murphy being taken further down the field towards our own goal and the rights and wrongs of that. i was also looking at this in light of whether the role suited his type of fitness. he isn't built for that area of the field where there's more running needed. gaa hits aside, if i look at him purely as an athelte, he looks to me like someone who can improve on his anaerobic, power endurance fitness, but more so on the aerobic side of things. i think traditionally full forward work has required shortish bursts and recovery times, and not covering ground and getting up and down and over and back that middle third. i think mcguinness is asking for a different type of game that people are saying is unrecognisable, and that requires different levels of fitness. murphy, for example, can slim down and become more powerful and have better aerobic stamina and i don't think it would affect his ability to take a hit. lowering the body fat and keeping enough muscle mass might even improve it.

as far as commitment is concerned and what is being asked, it's the holy grail and most players will commit to that. i think that although they'll be closer to where they need to be next year, they may need a year or even two more to get there again as that's just the way sport goes. the problem they'll have is sustaining more than another year of it. i agree with you there about it being tough on players, and on their loved ones, asking them to achieve and sustain professional levels of fitness with a day job. nothing like big days out and a bit of hype around donegal itself to keep them hungry though. 


i'm intrigued by the what will happen next side of it.

[lynchbhoy]

IMO Murphy can play this foraging game because he is young and still has that springy and sprightly step /athleticism that youth gives you.
This wont last and his physique isnt suited to that game .His physique is also not one that you could slim down a whole lot unless he goes on hunger strike.
Even if he lost loads of weight, he would take a while getting used to playing a completely different type of game as right now he is a strong powerful runner who knows people out of his way.
without the bulk and strength, he wont be able to do that- and will he be as effective.
IMO you pick players and play them to their own strengths in a side whose formation and style you tailor towards the players you posess.
Next year will be interesting.
Who will knock the Dubs off their perch as All Ireland champions !!

[The Hill is Blue]

Where next for Donegal?

Hollywood, I'd suggest. There are a couple of strong Oscar contenders in the clip below. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaI1PDU2xw

[cadence]

IMO Murphy can play this foraging game because he is young and still has that springy and sprightly step /athleticism that youth gives you.
This wont last and his physique isnt suited to that game .His physique is also not one that you could slim down a whole lot unless he goes on hunger strike.
Even if he lost loads of weight, he would take a while getting used to playing a completely different type of game as right now he is a strong powerful runner who knows people out of his way.
without the bulk and strength, he wont be able to do that- and will he be as effective.
IMO you pick players and play them to their own strengths in a side whose formation and style you tailor towards the players you posess.
Next year will be interesting.
Who will knock the Dubs off their perch as All Ireland champions !!

agree with you about you pick and play to their strengths. there's no doubt he's young and fit and a powerful lump of a man... but for even young men with the years smiling on them, there's the potential there to up the performance level. i don't mean he needs to drop down to a silly weight, i mean he can be fitter aerobically and also keep his power, even improve on it. if he keeps training, it'll happen nice a slowly, which is the most sustainable and safer for avoiding injuries. takes years to get to that level. i'm not just talking about murphy here either, the whole camp will be monsters if they keep the discipline and the training going.

the dubs are unbeatable as we all know so i'm taking that was rhetorical.