1981 remembered

[Applesisapples]

, I could call myself "United Kingdomish" rather than "British",

(y)UKish will do grand 

I suppose Marty would say better a Brit than a West Brit!

[michaelg]

Irish people have never been and aren't now British, as they weren't boron on the Island of Britain, so Mr Salmond is correct. People from NI in some cases may feel British but actually if you check it is the UK of Britain and NI (Ireland pre 1922).

The Good Friday Agreement, negotiated over several years by all participants to the dispute, legally recognised in all international forums, and overwhelmingly endorsed by the majority of people in all parts of Ireland, specifically recognises:

"... the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose"
http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

Are you claiming that you know better? 

Yep!

And I am the one who gets accused, including by you, of being "arrogant", "triumphalist" and "stuck in the past" etc.

Oh, and a "leper" sic as well   

You can call yourself British, feel British as you wish. The fact remains that unless you were born on or of parents who are from the island that is British then you are patently not British. The GFA may allow yourself to call yourself British and that is fine, but it doesn't change reality, you are a UK citizen, and Northern Irish, in the same way I am an Irish Citizen and Northern Irish.

What a thoroughly depressing post - So much for the spirit of understanding and respecting other people's views

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

There was an article in the guardian recently about what would happen if Scotland left the Union following a comment Miliband made , that if Scotland left then the Scots couldn't be called British any more.   The whole British construct came from the 1707 act of Union between Scotland and England/Wales.

That confirms the current political reality that being 'British' is nothing more than a status, that can be conferred or rescinded on the whim of Westminster. Try telling them that they could no longer be considered Scottish! 

[Applesisapples]

Irish people have never been and aren't now British, as they weren't boron on the Island of Britain, so Mr Salmond is correct. People from NI in some cases may feel British but actually if you check it is the UK of Britain and NI (Ireland pre 1922).

The Good Friday Agreement, negotiated over several years by all participants to the dispute, legally recognised in all international forums, and overwhelmingly endorsed by the majority of people in all parts of Ireland, specifically recognises:

"... the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose"
http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

Are you claiming that you know better? 

Yep!

And I am the one who gets accused, including by you, of being "arrogant", "triumphalist" and "stuck in the past" etc.

Oh, and a "leper" sic as well   

You can call yourself British, feel British as you wish. The fact remains that unless you were born on or of parents who are from the island that is British then you are patently not British. The GFA may allow yourself to call yourself British and that is fine, but it doesn't change reality, you are a UK citizen, and Northern Irish, in the same way I am an Irish Citizen and Northern Irish.

What a thoroughly depressing post - So much for the spirit of understanding and respecting other people's views

I am being a bit pedantic here, I have no real issue with people wanting to be or call themselves British, just pointing out that technically they are not (usually).

[Evil Genius]

You can call yourself British, feel British as you wish. The fact remains that unless you were born on or of parents who are from the island that is British then you are patently not British. The GFA may allow yourself to call yourself British and that is fine, but it doesn't change reality, you are a UK citizen, and Northern Irish, in the same way I am an Irish Citizen and Northern Irish.

What a thoroughly depressing post - So much for the spirit of understanding and respecting other people's views

I am being a bit pedantic here, I have no real issue with people wanting to be or call themselves British, just pointing out that technically they are not (usually).

Technically you are quite simply wrong.

"British", Adjective:

"Connected with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or the people who live there"
http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/british

OR

"Of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/british_1

[Applesisapples]

You can call yourself British, feel British as you wish. The fact remains that unless you were born on or of parents who are from the island that is British then you are patently not British. The GFA may allow yourself to call yourself British and that is fine, but it doesn't change reality, you are a UK citizen, and Northern Irish, in the same way I am an Irish Citizen and Northern Irish.

What a thoroughly depressing post - So much for the spirit of understanding and respecting other people's views

I am being a bit pedantic here, I have no real issue with people wanting to be or call themselves British, just pointing out that technically they are not (usually).

Technically you are quite simply wrong.

"British", Adjective:

"Connected with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or the people who live there"
http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/british

OR

"Of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/british_1

I beg to differ, but anyway sure you can be chinese for all I care as long as your happy. If I wanted to be really pedantic I could arue that the Britons like the Celts are no more. I bet you mates in England call you Paddy anyway.

[Evil Genius]

You can call yourself British, feel British as you wish. The fact remains that unless you were born on or of parents who are from the island that is British then you are patently not British. The GFA may allow yourself to call yourself British and that is fine, but it doesn't change reality, you are a UK citizen, and Northern Irish, in the same way I am an Irish Citizen and Northern Irish.

What a thoroughly depressing post - So much for the spirit of understanding and respecting other people's views

I am being a bit pedantic here, I have no real issue with people wanting to be or call themselves British, just pointing out that technically they are not (usually).

Technically you are quite simply wrong.

"British", Adjective:

"Connected with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or the people who live there"
http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/british

OR

"Of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/british_1

I beg to differ, but anyway sure you can be chinese for all I care as long as your happy.

So when presented with conclusive evidence that your statement was kack, you think "I beg to differ" a credible reply?

Wow.

If I wanted to be really pedantic I could arue that the Britons like the Celts are no more.

You are confusing "pedantic" with "pathetic"... 

I bet you mates in England call you Paddy anyway.

Wrong.

Again.

[Hardy]

I bet you mates in England call you Paddy anyway.

Wrong.

Again.

How do you know?

[Evil Genius]

I bet you mates in England call you Paddy anyway.

Wrong.

Again.

How do you know?

Very good! 

Note to 'Apples': There is a difference between wit and childishness. Maybe some day you'll grow up and learn the difference.

[armaghniac]

Note to 'Apples': There is a difference between wit and childishness. Maybe some day you'll grow up and learn the difference.

That's somewhat lacking in self reflection from someone who spends his time coming into a sports forum, who never comments on sporting issues, but rather spends his time finding different ways to repeat that his great¹⁰ grandfather beat up and colonised your great¹⁰ grandfather. 

[Applesisapples]

I bet you mates in England call you Paddy anyway.

Wrong.

Again.

How do you know?

Very good! 

Note to 'Apples': There is a difference between wit and childishness. Maybe some day you'll grow up and learn the difference.

EG it is my firmly held belief that the adjective British does not apply to anything or anyone from the Island of Ireland, irrespective of any definition in an English Dictionary, just because it is  commonly used by people in the Unionist Community does not make it so, that said I repect your right to differ...if that makes me childish in you're view that's your right.

[orangeman]

Nice timing
Secret hunger strike documents released


Margaret Thatcher, later Baroness Thatcher, was implacably opposed to the hunger strikers British officials set out to "butter up" the head of Ireland's Catholics, Cardinal Tomas O Fiaich, during the hunger strikes of 1981, recently-released confidential documents have revealed.

The suggestion to try to appease the cardinal came in a note accompanying a draft letter written by D Blatherwick of the Political Affairs Division on behalf of then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.

The Public Records Office documents are now available on the Cain website.

They give an intriguing insight into the public relations battle involving republicans, the Northern Ireland Office and the British and Irish governments during one of the most tense periods of the Troubles.

After hunger strikers Raymond McCreesh and Patsy O'Hara died on 21 May 1981, the then Primate, Cardinal O Fiaich, publicly criticised the government's attitude to the prison protest.


Mr Blatherwick, in his message to Downing Street, wrote: "Your minute of 21 May asked me to think about a possible message to Cardinal O Fiaich. The Cardinal has since let loose another shaft (copy attached), which reinforces the case for action on our part.

"I submit a self-explanatory draft from the Prime Minister together with a draft covering letter to No 10. I have tried to bring out elements of reassurance for the Catholic community, and to butter up the Cardinal.

"I have not inserted the idea that the influence of the Church is the key to progress but it is latent in the concept of consulting the Cardinal anyway."

Referring to Cardinal O Fiaich's statement to the press, he said: "As the Cardinal says, the impasse over the hunger strike and the continuing deaths of hunger strikers have sharply raised the temperature in the Catholic community.


Humphrey Atkins was Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in 1981 "There is widespread genuine concern for the hunger strikers' fate (not necessarily for their cause) and a growing conviction, however illogical it may seem on the facts of the issue, that it is up to Government - as the stronger party - to find a way out of the dilemma which threatens to drag the community back into the dark days of the early 1970s.

"The feelings of bitterness, despair and frustration which show through the Cardinal's statement are therefore widely shared. At the same time, there is some feeling in the minority that the Government has not taken enough notice of the Cardinal's appeals."

"The Secretary of State (Humphrey Atkins) therefore hopes that the Prime Minister will agree to respond to the Cardinal's statement, and I enclose a draft.

"The timing of its release will be important. We think that the maximum impact would be made if it were to go to the Cardinal, and the press, on Sunday evening 24 May, after the funerals of McCreesh and O'Hara."

Mr Blatherwick adds that he believes the government is holding its own in the publicity battle.


"The ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights) intervention should help us hold the line, though it is not yet clear what publicity we shall be able to make of it in the circumstances," said.

The previously secret records have been added to the Conflict Archive on the INternet (CAIN) website as part of ongoing work between the University of Ulster and the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI).

In October 2010 a selection of records for the years 1968 to 1979 was made available. This was made up of hundreds of government records, formerly classified as restricted or secret.

Dr Brendan Lynn, CAIN deputy director Dr Brendan Lynn said: "We are pleased to have been able to continue our cooperation with PRONI and to update the existing section with material dealing with the year 1981.

"The information is easily available and free of charge. We believe it will of great use to students, researchers, teachers and lecturers or to anyone with an interest in the political and social history of Northern Ireland."

[glens abu]

Hunger Strike March and Rally @ 2pm on Sunday 5th Aug in Dungiven home of Kevin Lynch.On this the 31st anniversary of their deaths they will all be remembered with pride."I am standing on the threshold of another trembling world.May God have mercy on my soul"

[camanchero]

Rest in peace, the brave Hunger strike men of 1981 and all those other Irish patriot heroes before them !

[glens abu]

 "I am standing on the threshold of another trembling world.May God have mercy on my soul" Bobby Sands 1st March 1981 on the 1st day of Hunger strike.