Donegal v Dublin semi final 28-8-11

[backofthehand]

Like a previous poster, as an ulsterman started out hoping for a donegal win, but by halftime hoped Dublin could beat them.
Maybe we should send them to New Zealand though as the Irish rugby team had more forward passes against England on Saturday.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Why did Des Cahill ask the panel why Donegal lost.  We all know why they lost.  It was because they could only score 6 points in 70 minutes football.  That must have been the worst scoring return since teams were playing 21 or 17 a side.

I remember seeing Roscommon defeat Armagh in a league game on a bog around 1980 in the depths of winter. It finished 0-6 to 0-5 if i recall. At least they had an excuse.

There was a League semi-final played around 1999 / 2000 between Cork and Meath. It was on before Armagh v Dublin which ended a draw. I think the Cork Meath match finished something like 0-6 to 0-4.

[AZOffaly]

That was painful and anyone who found it fascinating needs their head read.

Anyone who didn't find it fascinating has no concept of the essence of sport.

I couldn't agree more - it might not have been pretty to watch, but from a tactical/technical viewpoint it was extraordinary, and almost unrecognisable as gaelic football, as we have previously known it.

It was, but do we want to progress towards that new vision of gaelic football. I'm firmly in the camp that it's up to each manager/coach to give his team the best chance of winning within the rules. If that's a defensive gameplan, then fair enough, it's up to the other team to beat them.

Now I'm happy Dublin did beat it, because I think that may have been the Rubicon and, had Donegal crossed it, we may well have had a spate of teams aping this. I don't want to see a plethora of games ending up 8-6, 7-4, 6-3 or whatever. We still may see that, and it's withing average team's gift to decide to be competitive that way, however the good teams will still be confident that they can overcome it, as Dublin did.

What disappointed me about Donegal was not that defensive set up, it was the way they went about their business. It was obvious they were operating outside the rules in terms of their behaviour after a stoppage. And that was under instruction, I'm sure of it. Colm McFadden held the ball for about 30 seconds there, with 3 or 4 Dubs trying to take it off him, until Deegan made him give the ball back for the free. Afterwards the camera panned on him and he actually looked sheepish about it.

So I did find it fascinating, but fascinating from a tactical context. I can see how people might be worried that the casual fan would be completely switched off.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Is that the first time that the winners in an AI semi-final couldn't score more times than the winners in a first division soccer match across the Irish Sea on the same weekend?

In the game that spawned the term 'puke football', Tyrone's score was just one point shy of the combined total of yesterday's scores (13-6 vs Kerry) - presumably puking Pat will have to coin a new term now, assuming he can interrupt his wretchings.

[AZOffaly]

Is that the first time that the winners in an AI semi-final couldn't score more times than the winners in a first division soccer match across the Irish Sea on the same weekend?

In the game that spawned the term 'puke football', Tyrone's score was just one point shy of the combined total of yesterday's scores (13-6 vs Kerry) - presumably puking Pat will have to coin a new term now, assuming he can interrupt his wretchings.

That was not the same football at all. This was Tyrone's approach elevated (or lowered) a couple of levels. Tyrone sat their half forwards back, and tried to turnover possession. They had McGuigan, Canavan, O'Neill and Mulligan waiting to do damage. Donegal literally had 14 men in their own half at times, with McFadden up on his ownio. They did try to attack by all breaking out together, which can be attractive to watch, but when they got tired they were completely toothless.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Agreed AZ, it was a different animal.

[ONeill]

What happens next year?

Will McGuinness attempt more of the same or was that a failed experiment?

[AZOffaly]

I suspect Donegal will attempt something similar next year again, but they may tweak it by leaving two or three up front instead of just one. You do need to score. I suspect he may continue with the physical conditioning, as I think Dublin wore them down yesterday a bit. In the first half Donegal were winning the physical battles, in the second Dublin were.

From Jimmy's perspective he'll be saying they were close, and they were. And if they had made the final Kerry would not relish facing them either.

So of I were him I'd be trying to up our scoring production just a little, and also trying to lift our physical fitness to the level of Dublin, Kildare etc. (I know they beat Kildare, but that was nick or nothing between them and Kildare were fairly banged up injury wise).

The one thing is that it should stop too many clones of Donegal, because it's not seen as the silver bullet. Tyrone's approach was seen in that light which is why we had Westmeath, Offaly (sadly) and a host of other teams doing the 'made in Taiwan' version.

[ross matt]

I suspect Donegal will attempt something similar next year again, but they may tweak it by leaving two or three up front instead of just one. You do need to score. I suspect he may continue with the physical conditioning, as I think Dublin wore them down yesterday a bit. In the first half Donegal were winning the physical battles, in the second Dublin were.

From Jimmy's perspective he'll be saying they were close, and they were. And if they had made the final Kerry would not relish facing them either.

So of I were him I'd be trying to up our scoring production just a little, and also trying to lift our physical fitness to the level of Dublin, Kildare etc. (I know they beat Kildare, but that was nick or nothing between them and Kildare were fairly banged up injury wise).

The one thing is that it should stop too many clones of Donegal, because it's not seen as the silver bullet. Tyrone's approach was seen in that light which is why we had Westmeath, Offaly (sadly) and a host of other teams doing the 'made in Taiwan' version.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement AZ but I do hope you're right. I just fear some sides (certainly club ones) will see Donegal making the last 4 as success and as a result plan a similar strategy. It did happen after Tyrone's breakthrough in 2003. But Tyrone broke forward quickly to counterattack once they had turned possession over and they had the class of Canavan, McGuigan, O'Neill etc to finish up front. Much more ability and ambition than Donegal. McGuinness talks about a much more offensive approach next season. I'm not sure he had the players to do that and continue this defence game he's devised. Nobody outside of Donegal could have enjoyed watching them this season and I wonder if even those Donegal supporters who watched the McHugh's and Tony and Manus Boyle etc play hard but tremendous football to win the '92 AI could genuinely admire this current set up. I'm glad the Dubs won for the sake of football and for the prospect of what should be a decent final.

[Billys Boots]

I suspect Donegal will attempt something similar next year again, but they may tweak it by leaving two or three up front instead of just one. You do need to score. I suspect he may continue with the physical conditioning, as I think Dublin wore them down yesterday a bit. In the first half Donegal were winning the physical battles, in the second Dublin were.

From Jimmy's perspective he'll be saying they were close, and they were. And if they had made the final Kerry would not relish facing them either.

So of I were him I'd be trying to up our scoring production just a little, and also trying to lift our physical fitness to the level of Dublin, Kildare etc. (I know they beat Kildare, but that was nick or nothing between them and Kildare were fairly banged up injury wise).

The one thing is that it should stop too many clones of Donegal, because it's not seen as the silver bullet. Tyrone's approach was seen in that light which is why we had Westmeath, Offaly (sadly) and a host of other teams doing the 'made in Taiwan' version.

My belief is that Donegal lost for three reasons only: (1) Dublin had better fitness/conditioning in the last ten-fifteen minutes, (2) Donegal had run out of energy in the middle third after 55-60 mins, and (3) Donegal were not far enough ahead at that watershed.  The scary thing, for the hand-wringers, is that none of those three reasons has much to do with the footballing aspects of the game. 

[Zulu]

I think Donegal missed the boat with their approach this year. If they were going to win an AI using that approach it had to be this year. I think the players will find it hard to keep up the intensity required in training for another whole year. In addition everyone knows what they do and I'm sure every team they meet in ulster will be well up for the battle.

[macdanger2]

Congratulations to Dublin, must be great to be back in the final. I hope ye win it. Kerry being hot favourites will suit ye down to the ground.

Very tough on Connolly and I thought it was just a shove rather than a strike. I don't think it will be overturned on appeal though as technically he did strike the Donegal player.

[lynchbhoy]

I found yesterdays game enthralling and really enjoyed it. Defensive masterclass from both sides.
MOTM by miles was Frank McGlynn of donegal. Superb player and athlete. Unsung hero.
My pre game predictions more or less came true. Though Cluxton didnt end up top scorer.
I thought during the game that Dublns first three frees and points were not merited. the sunday game footage proved this to me. Some refs give them (obv) but I felt they were VERY fortuitous for Dublin.
This was championship football for what it really is folks. the championship football we all know from a young age. You are afraid to lose more than that you want to win. Donegal could have won it and threw it away. They didnt take the options they had to go forward that little bit more and possibly score. They faded and Dublin proved that they can live with the best and then take their chances when they present themselves. thats the mark of a great side.
Donegal did the cynical thing and the ref moved the ball up a few times for this. The feigning inj was done a few times too - young Boyle did what is becomming all too common in Gaelic football, Connolly should not have raised his paws at all and struck out at the Donegalman. Connolly after a few seasons of bad discipline had rectified this, but got caught out yesterday  - prob due to frustration. While the letter of the law states it is a red card (and Rory Kavanagh deserved at least a yellow for his follow up) I reckon he may get this rescinded on appeal.
Karl Lacey going off turned the game against Donegal. But they had enough opportunities to drive on further for scores but kept turning back  and retained posession instead.
The game they play, its all about choosing the right options at the right time. They declined a few too many. Seeing McFadden kick a pass outto the wing when 35-40 yards in front of goal an not too tightly marked baffled me. That was as clear a shoting chance as Iyou will see.
Fortune favours the brave they say.
Dublin were let off somewhat, but they had to be still there or thereabouts in order to take it in the end, and they did ! McMenamon the catalyst against the tiring donegal defence.
the amount of work that both managements have done to get their teams playing so well disciplined is unbelieveable.I'd not like to be starting out to try to implement that. Lets face it - both sides play a very defensive first game. Donegals is just more , way more, protracted and noticeable.
Donegal willcome back with this style again next year - maybe they will add a bit more attack to it, but this unfortunately could be the way forward for football. Other counties and clubs will be starting on this gameplan right now.
While I hope not, this is the reality. Ok to watch once in a while but not if it takes over in football. I think it may do. An antidote needs to be found asap !

[INDIANA]

you would hope that anyone who found donegal enthralling isnt coaching teams. otherwise we will never see the likes of colm cooper again. what we will have are cheats, divers and olympic handballers.

[tonesfirstandlast]

I found yesterdays game enthralling and really enjoyed it. Defensive masterclass from both sides.
MOTM by miles was Frank McGlynn of donegal. Superb player and athlete. Unsung hero.
My pre game predictions more or less came true. Though Cluxton didnt end up top scorer.
I thought during the game that Dublns first three frees and points were not merited. the sunday game footage proved this to me. Some refs give them (obv) but I felt they were VERY fortuitous for Dublin.
This was championship football for what it really is folks. the championship football we all know from a young age. You are afraid to lose more than that you want to win. Donegal could have won it and threw it away. They didnt take the options they had to go forward that little bit more and possibly score. They faded and Dublin proved that they can live with the best and then take their chances when they present themselves. thats the mark of a great side.
Donegal did the cynical thing and the ref moved the ball up a few times for this. The feigning inj was done a few times too - young Boyle did what is becomming all too common in Gaelic football, Connolly should not have raised his paws at all and struck out at the Donegalman. Connolly after a few seasons of bad discipline had rectified this, but got caught out yesterday  - prob due to frustration. While the letter of the law states it is a red card (and Rory Kavanagh deserved at least a yellow for his follow up) I reckon he may get this rescinded on appeal.
Karl Lacey going off turned the game against Donegal. But they had enough opportunities to drive on further for scores but kept turning back  and retained posession instead.
The game they play, its all about choosing the right options at the right time. They declined a few too many. Seeing McFadden kick a pass outto the wing when 35-40 yards in front of goal an not too tightly marked baffled me. That was as clear a shoting chance as Iyou will see.
Fortune favours the brave they say.
Dublin were let off somewhat, but they had to be still there or thereabouts in order to take it in the end, and they did ! McMenamon the catalyst against the tiring donegal defence.
the amount of work that both managements have done to get their teams playing so well disciplined is unbelieveable.I'd not like to be starting out to try to implement that. Lets face it - both sides play a very defensive first game. Donegals is just more , way more, protracted and noticeable.
Donegal willcome back with this style again next year - maybe they will add a bit more attack to it, but this unfortunately could be the way forward for football. Other counties and clubs will be starting on this gameplan right now.
While I hope not, this is the reality. Ok to watch once in a while but not if it takes over in football. I think it may do. An antidote needs to be found asap !

Brilliant post LB, you are coming back to your best!