Donegal v Dublin semi final 28-8-11

[fearglasmor]

With regard to Connolys dismissal, he was stupid to raise his hands and that will always leave you open to a red card. If you want to look at justice as opposed to law then Boyle deserved greater punishment than Connolly for his cheating behaviour. And if you want to apply rules rigidly then the reality is that most games would finish with only two goalkeepers on the field as almost all tackles are illegal if judged by the letter of the law.

As for Donegals style, if you wanted to develop the puke football analogy this was "bile football"  bile being the disgusting acidic green/yellow liquid that comes up when you have nothing else left to puke. For me it was a horrible side effect of too much drink taken too quickly, something I havent seen for a fair few years and dont want to see again. That said, Jim McGuinness is ultimately charged with bringing success to Donegal football and an Ulster title in year one has to be considered success. I dont think he should be abused for it but I do hope he seeks to develop it with better attacking options rather than just repeat it.

Ultimately I think any system is only as good as the players implementing it.  I dont think rule changes will be needed because there wont be mass cloning of an obviously flawed system (at the highest level)

It is interesting to see the comment about Donegals tactics being borrowed from soccer. Soccer has the offside rule and a ban on the back pass to the keeper as well as 3 point for a win to try and negate the impact of negative defensive tactics.  What rules could be implemented in Gaelic football to do likewise if it was deemed necassary.  Would 13 a side have reduced the effectiveness of Donegals style ? Limiting the number of consecutive handpasses anyone ?  Putting electronic dog collars on forwards that administer a shock everytim ethey cross the half way line ?

[DUBSFORSAM1]

there is no quest for knowledge for diving cheating and feigning injury. im a former defender and i found nothiing enthralling about yesterday. if i needed the help of 5 forwards to help me mark my man when i was playing i would have retired at 21.
the sheer skulduggery that when on yesterday is what i have a problem with.

I abhor diving and cheating, always did. In actual fact, if a ref didnt catch on to it when I was playing, I'd try to dish out my own brand of retribution. That was wrong also.

You say you were a former defender - as a former defender, did you ever pull a jersey, grab an arm, trip a lad up, block a mans run (third man tackle)?
If you didnt fair play to you  -but you must have retired at u12  level.
To me (a former - rubbish- forward) all the above are aspects of cheating. They are fouls, but the refs usually dont give frees for them or dont see them as they are usually quite subtle or even off the ball.
These fouls have got worse with the trash talking, fingers up erses (take a bow mr walsh) , diving, stopping quick frees and the much maligned on here fouling 'cynicism'.

At what point do people object to 'skulduggery'.
Is it the pulling or dragging? Is it the diving or feigning inj? is it the cynical fouls? or is it the massed defence and soccer-eque formation that makes the game look dreadful but is actually more within the rules than the previous examples.
Dublin like most teams are adept at pulling, dragging and the occasional dive too.
Bernard Brogan I have to say is not a diver- was chatting to his oul lad after the last game and he told me that he was saying to BBjr that he could get more frees if he actually went to ground, but BBjr wouldnt do it.
Others in the dublin side are not as 'clean'.
If you think that Dublin are above fouling then yer stone mad. I would like a clean no fouls game myself, but thats cuckoo land. Its part of the game and every defender does it - though I'm waiting interestedly on your own response on whether you fouled as a defender or not !!

Yes, yesterdays game intrigued me greatly and like all things ying and yang, you have to be able to take the bad games as much as you applaud the good games !

Simple things like this need to be cleaned up -

1 - Deliberately staying within the 13 yards when frees are given should lead the ball being moved 35/40 yards forward rather than 13 and a yellow card.
2 - Refusing to give the ball back when frees are given should have the same result as above.
3 - Anyone diving like Boyle did feigning an injury when wasn't touched in the face should get a season's ban.
4 - Anyone claiming an elbow or shouting for people to be sent off and coming on the pitch from the sideline should get a 3 year ban.
5 - Deliberate tripping of people going through on goal should be a red card offence.

[Fuzzman]

Some very interesting opinions on here today and whilst I hate to see the game move away from the fast attacking entertaining game that we still see occasionally, I can appreciate how some games can be an intriguing war of attrition and intense dour affairs.

However, I just feel every new "SYSTEM" seems to be moving away from the entertainment and freedom of expression style and moving more towards the "Stop them at ALL costs" styles.

One of the best memories of my life was Tyrone winning Sam in 2003. One of my worst was the NFL games that followed the years after. Teams with maybe not the same attacking options as we had would take the blanket defense, win at all costs attitude to another level.

Now of course its rich for us Tyronies, now sitting with our 3 Sams, to criticize teams like Donegal who want to devise their own system of play. Teams like the Kereys, Corks, Dublins etc with several AI titles find themselves on their high horses saying its better to lose with a bit of self respect and style than to win knowing that you've cheated or forced the other team to lose with terrible tactics. I tend to agree with them as I am now a fan of GAA and want to be entertained. I want Tyrone to win more Sams but to play great football doing so.
It greatly annoys me that players like Sean Cavanagh, Stephen O'Neill and even the Brogans and Gooch can't really apply their trade any more cos of what managers and their new systems are doing to stop them.

Benny Coulter mentioned it at the start of the year and no doubt a few others too.
Are we gonna see players like them, so capable of doing marvellous things on the pitch, lose interest in playing and so change sports to soccer, rugby or something else.
Whether or not we like to admit it, it seems to me that we are on a downward spiral where defense has become King. I'm sure we've saw extracts of it years ago where half forward drop back but it's gone now to a complete whole new level.
It reminds me of when I played in a very intense game of indoor soccer one time when I was very fit about 17. It was 4 a side and you could only score inside the semi circle. Every time we lost the ball, the 3 outfield players would retreat back into the semi circle and let them break us down in there. I hope to God GAA football will not be going in that direction.

To me one of the joys of being a GAA fan over other sports is the amount of scores in each game. The amount of one to one battles. How skill, speed and intelligence often does battle with strength, method and brute ignorance. Whilst guys like Spillane look through rose tinted glasses back to the 70's & 80's, you would have to be in denial if you don't admit that our game is changing a lot in the last few years and in my eyes changing for the worst.

Congrats Donegal on a huge turnaround in fortunes from last year to this, but I pray to God that ye don't follow this road and come back to playing something that resembles the beautiful game we love. In fairness Mickey Harte did move away from it after 2003 to some extent and the Dubs benefited greatly from that choice a few weeks ago.

[INDIANA]

there is no quest for knowledge for diving cheating and feigning injury. im a former defender and i found nothiing enthralling about yesterday. if i needed the help of 5 forwards to help me mark my man when i was playing i would have retired at 21.
the sheer skulduggery that when on yesterday is what i have a problem with.

I abhor diving and cheating, always did. In actual fact, if a ref didnt catch on to it when I was playing, I'd try to dish out my own brand of retribution. That was wrong also.

You say you were a former defender - as a former defender, did you ever pull a jersey, grab an arm, trip a lad up, block a mans run (third man tackle)?
If you didnt fair play to you  -but you must have retired at u12  level.
To me (a former - rubbish- forward) all the above are aspects of cheating. They are fouls, but the refs usually dont give frees for them or dont see them as they are usually quite subtle or even off the ball.
These fouls have got worse with the trash talking, fingers up erses (take a bow mr walsh) , diving, stopping quick frees and the much maligned on here fouling 'cynicism'.

At what point do people object to 'skulduggery'.
Is it the pulling or dragging? Is it the diving or feigning inj? is it the cynical fouls? or is it the massed defence and soccer-eque formation that makes the game look dreadful but is actually more within the rules than the previous examples.
Dublin like most teams are adept at pulling, dragging and the occasional dive too.
Bernard Brogan I have to say is not a diver- was chatting to his oul lad after the last game and he told me that he was saying to BBjr that he could get more frees if he actually went to ground, but BBjr wouldnt do it.
Others in the dublin side are not as 'clean'.
If you think that Dublin are above fouling then yer stone mad. I would like a clean no fouls game myself, but thats cuckoo land. Its part of the game and every defender does it - though I'm waiting interestedly on your own response on whether you fouled as a defender or not !!

Yes, yesterdays game intrigued me greatly and like all things ying and yang, you have to be able to take the bad games as much as you applaud the good games !

feigning injury to get a man sent off. the lowest of the low.
diving like many of the donegal players yesterday
a manager running onto the pitch to get another sent off
kicking a player in the head
another stamping on our best forward after 40sec to try to put him out of the game

do i have to go on?

if that qualifies as enthralling people need to get out more.

i played a hard game but i never indulged in that shite.its not being a hard ma either its pure cowardice.

factor in their rancid style of football and you have the complete package.

i think the donegal players will revolt eventually. dont anybody attempt to bracket tyrone as being donegal lite. tyrone played football donegal dont.

the bottom line is mc guinness never believed he could win that game yesterdayand set it accordingly. he was shown up to be an average coach with no plan b. the hilarious thing was watching donegal two points down and playing one man up front.

[SLIGONIAN]

I could be as far out as Wicklow Head on this one but there seemed to be an abject demeanour to Martin McHugh in the pre game analysis on the BBC.
I know that he tipped Dublin to win which showed that his head did not rule his heart.

But there appeared to be more to this than simply using a judgement based on the gathering of facts and the rationale of probability.
He appeared very uncomfortable in even wanting to suggest that Donegal could win.

I am no psychologist but given his close connection to the Donegal team, it was as if he knew something that we didn't and it made him uneasy.
Maybe it will be left unsaid or maybe someone will break ranks, but reading between the lines I think Martin's message was that some or all the players would have liked the shackles to have been loosened a little so that they could play a bit of football.

As I said just a hunch.

Mchugh tipped Donegal to lose all there games this season in the media, he isnt to be taken seriously in this regard as its clearly not his true view and a sad attempt at dampening expectation.

Can someone tell me how using 1-13-1 formation and attacking on the break is somehow tactically brilliant? Donegal play the running game again, nothing genuis there. They just compiled all the negative tactics of gaelic football and used it in abundance yday. The only thing thats unusual is that Donegal didnt use any of the positive aspects at all. Usually teams implement both. It nearly worked as Donegal did soak up alot stupid play form Dublin until it opened up.

[J70]

Firstly delighted Dublin won but it's only fair to point out it was quite a cynical foul on Karl Lacey that was in fact game changing....

Yes but can I also point out that if Donegal hadn't taken Johney Doyle out of the game in the first few minutes of the 1/4 final, they wouldn't have been contesting for a place in the final.
In other words, what goes around comes around!

Utter fuckin' shite. Doyle was injured in an accidental collision... with Michael Hegarty, about the least dirty player around.

So was Lacey whom might I add, I have a serious time for but I'll repeat it, what goes around comes around... a fit John Doyle for the full 70 mins
would have had ye out the gate!

So now you're saying Doyle WASN'T intentionally injured???

Disregarding the fact that no forward has prospered against Donegal this year, the obvious reply is that if we'd a fit Murphy that day, we might have won in 70 mins!  Ifs and buts.

[Hill16 Blues]

Was on the Hill yesterday. First time I've ever heard a team boo'd in general play as Donegal were. That game was the worst game of football I've ever been at in 30 years of following Dublin.

Donegal's approach was a disgrace to football and a disgrace to themselves. The defensive system was negative enough but the cynical stuff that went on particularly in the second half as Donegal tried to slow the game down and wind up the Dublin players was utterly disgusting. As much as McGuinness is responsible for their style of play the players theemselves decided to carry on the way they did.

Was thrilled with getting to the final but game yesterday left very sour taste. If there's any justice at all Connolly will have his red card rescinded. Hope Flynn and O'Carroll ok too. Final will be proper game with best footballing team to win! Thank God Donegal are not there!

Hope to God I never have to witnes c*p like that gain on a football pitch!!!!

[Jinxy]

Indiana no Dublin player was kicked in the head (I'm presuming you're referring to O'Carroll).
He took a shin around his collarbone area as the Donegal lad ran in to tackle him.
There was no kicking action so you can cross that off your list of outrages.
Lads that are kicked in the head generally don't get up and play on for another few minutes.

[Jinxy]

Was on the Hill yesterday. First time I've ever heard a team boo'd in general play as Donegal were. That game was the worst game of football I've ever been at in 30 years of following Dublin.

Donegal's approach was a disgrace to football and a disgrace to themselves. The defensive system was negative enough but the cynical stuff that went on particularly in the second half as Donegal tried to slow the game down and wind up the Dublin players was utterly disgusting. As much as McGuinness is responsible for their style of play the players theemselves decided to carry on the way they did.

Was thrilled with getting to the final but game yesterday left very sour taste. If there's any justice at all Connolly will have his red card rescinded. Hope Flynn and O'Carroll ok too. Final will be proper game with best footballing team to win! Thank God Donegal are not there!

Hope to God I never have to witnes c*p like that gain on a football pitch!!!!

Do you even think it was a foul?
The ref was 100% right to put him off.

[BennyCake]

Was on the Hill yesterday. First time I've ever heard a team boo'd in general play as Donegal were. That game was the worst game of football I've ever been at in 30 years of following Dublin.

Donegal's approach was a disgrace to football and a disgrace to themselves. The defensive system was negative enough but the cynical stuff that went on particularly in the second half as Donegal tried to slow the game down and wind up the Dublin players was utterly disgusting. As much as McGuinness is responsible for their style of play the players theemselves decided to carry on the way they did.

Was thrilled with getting to the final but game yesterday left very sour taste. If there's any justice at all Connolly will have his red card rescinded. Hope Flynn and O'Carroll ok too. Final will be proper game with best footballing team to win! Thank God Donegal are not there!

Hope to God I never have to witnes c*p like that gain on a football pitch!!!!

Do you even think it was a foul?
The ref was 100% right to put him off.

You're correct.  He should miss the final.

[INDIANA]

Indiana no Dublin player was kicked in the head (I'm presuming you're referring to O'Carroll).
He took a shin around his collarbone area as the Donegal lad ran in to tackle him.
There was no kicking action so you can cross that off your list of outrages.
Lads that are kicked in the head generally don't get up and play on for another few minutes.

peter canavan managed to play on in 1996  all ireland semi so you are completely wrong there. he was very nearly concussed jinxy and thats directly from the dublin medical staff. its like a casualty ward. flynn and o carroll are doubtful for the final. factor in connollys abscence and its looking like kerrys to lose.

[Hill16 Blues]

He pushed Boyle in the neck having had 3 Donegal players come at him after he won the free. Boyle dives to the ground holding his face. Ref who was beside incident takes direction from linesan 20 yds away to send him off. Youd' be happy with that if it were M*ath player would you?

Connolly raised his hands so is in trouble going by letter of the law. If there's any 'justice' he will not miss an AIF for that.

[Gold]

Lynchbhoy is writin balax.

quite possibly. But its just my opinion.
Either way I enjoyed the game.
Just sorry to see the season is almost over again !

Only codding, though I'd disagree that teams will start copying Donegal's style.

The season's only starting. The muck and stoor of November brings out the best in the likes of Loup, Crossmaglen and Carrickmore.

Jesus dont remind me--the antidote for all insomnia sufferers

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

He pushed Boyle in the neck having had 3 Donegal players come at him after he won the free. Boyle dives to the ground holding his face. Ref who was beside incident takes direction from linesan 20 yds away to send him off. Youd' be happy with that if it were M*ath player would you?

Connolly raised his hands so is in trouble going by letter of the law. If there's any 'justice' he will not miss an AIF for that.

Have you even looked at the incident? There is a clear "push / strike / punch" to the face.

Harmless admittedly but its a red card offence.

[lynchbhoy]

Simple things like this need to be cleaned up -
1 - Deliberately staying within the 13 yards when frees are given should lead the ball being moved 35/40 yards forward rather than 13 and a yellow card.
2 - Refusing to give the ball back when frees are given should have the same result as above.
3 - Anyone diving like Boyle did feigning an injury when wasn't touched in the face should get a season's ban.
4 - Anyone claiming an elbow or shouting for people to be sent off and coming on the pitch from the sideline should get a 3 year ban.
5 - Deliberate tripping of people going through on goal should be a red card offence.

the rules already cater for points 1 & 2 - and indeed the ref was incorrect when he brought the ball up a second time for Dublin when they didnt get out of the way quickly enough. The penalty there is a yellow card.
The points 3, 4 &5 are part of the debate we had this last few weeks on cynical fouling etc and the refs not applying the proper laws of the game in the actual match.