Joe Brolly

[Owen Brannigan]

Who are they?  Why does SF not go all out to ensure that Catholics would feel comfortable in a career in community policing?

You know who they are.

I'm banging my head against a wall here. Your problem with policing is really your problem with SF.
Again with the Community policing. Not that I care what SF do most of the time but they do support community policing. They have no choice as communities need policing. The only reason they joined the board was to break the wall between communities and police. They didn't do nor can they do it, to break the legacy of policing or the culture of political policing.
Can you accept that community policing is not the barrier to feeling safe?

Exactly, SF are not a recruitment agency. PSNI are responsible for that. Milltown mentioned a Truth Commission, it seems a plausible idea but SF can never go for it. That truth commission should only be for those members of the security forces and/or informants who wronged imo. Anyone else were unpaid citizens of the state who were carrying out what they seen as a justified campaign. If SF sign up for a full truth commission they could be throwing some of their own under the bus.

Doubt if they would claim to be citizens of the state they were trying overthrow.  However, I would be interested in them justifying the killing of so many civilians, being the killers of the greatest number of Catholics and particularly their sectarian murders such as Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and so many more.

Does being paid by the IRA through robberies and overseas fundraising not count for the IRA members?

[Owen Brannigan]

He isn't too popular amongst some of the boxing world.

Don't think Karl is very fond of him.

[Therealdonald]

Who are they?  Why does SF not go all out to ensure that Catholics would feel comfortable in a career in community policing?

You know who they are.

I'm banging my head against a wall here. Your problem with policing is really your problem with SF.
Again with the Community policing. Not that I care what SF do most of the time but they do support community policing. They have no choice as communities need policing. The only reason they joined the board was to break the wall between communities and police. They didn't do nor can they do it, to break the legacy of policing or the culture of political policing.
Can you accept that community policing is not the barrier to feeling safe?

Exactly, SF are not a recruitment agency. PSNI are responsible for that. Milltown mentioned a Truth Commission, it seems a plausible idea but SF can never go for it. That truth commission should only be for those members of the security forces and/or informants who wronged imo. Anyone else were unpaid citizens of the state who were carrying out what they seen as a justified campaign. If SF sign up for a full truth commission they could be throwing some of their own under the bus.

Doubt if they would claim to be citizens of the state they were trying overthrow.  However, I would be interested in them justifying the killing of so many civilians, being the killers of the greatest number of Catholics and particularly their sectarian murders such as Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and so many more.

Does being paid by the IRA through robberies and overseas fundraising not count for the IRA members?

War is war. Mistakes happen. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire unfortunately. Whilst we're asking the IRA to apologise for killing civilians will we email Donald Trump and ask him to apologise for Hiroshima? Or was that a more justified massacre of civilians? Like it or lump it, the Catholic/ Nationalist community wouldn't have the rights or chances we have without the IRA campaign. Now the Catholic ''Middle-Class'' will never acknowledge this but its fact.

And as for Barry McGuigan, horrible person. Barney screwed him and he screwed Frampton

[Owen Brannigan]

Who are they?  Why does SF not go all out to ensure that Catholics would feel comfortable in a career in community policing?

You know who they are.

I'm banging my head against a wall here. Your problem with policing is really your problem with SF.
Again with the Community policing. Not that I care what SF do most of the time but they do support community policing. They have no choice as communities need policing. The only reason they joined the board was to break the wall between communities and police. They didn't do nor can they do it, to break the legacy of policing or the culture of political policing.
Can you accept that community policing is not the barrier to feeling safe?

Exactly, SF are not a recruitment agency. PSNI are responsible for that. Milltown mentioned a Truth Commission, it seems a plausible idea but SF can never go for it. That truth commission should only be for those members of the security forces and/or informants who wronged imo. Anyone else were unpaid citizens of the state who were carrying out what they seen as a justified campaign. If SF sign up for a full truth commission they could be throwing some of their own under the bus.

Doubt if they would claim to be citizens of the state they were trying overthrow.  However, I would be interested in them justifying the killing of so many civilians, being the killers of the greatest number of Catholics and particularly their sectarian murders such as Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and so many more.

Does being paid by the IRA through robberies and overseas fundraising not count for the IRA members?

War is war. Mistakes happen. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire unfortunately. Whilst we're asking the IRA to apologise for killing civilians will we email Donald Trump and ask him to apologise for Hiroshima? Or was that a more justified massacre of civilians? Like it or lump it, the Catholic/ Nationalist community wouldn't have the rights or chances we have without the IRA campaign. Now the Catholic ''Middle-Class'' will never acknowledge this but its fact.

And as for Barry McGuigan, horrible person. Barney screwed him and he screwed Frampton

Except where the same innocent people are the deliberate target. Not sure you can count the killings at Kingsmill as being due to the factory workers being 'caught in the crossfire' or the diners from the Irish Collie Club and the Northern Ireland Junior Motor Cycle Club at the La Mon Restaurant or the shoppers in the Abercorn restaurant in the same way.

Please read the posts, no one is asking the IRA for an apology for the killing and maiming of so many innocent civilians.

IRA never secured a single right for anyone, it became a propaganda tool for Adams to get SF into Stormont to govern the state that the IRA was supposed to overthrow and create a 32 county republic according to its own constitution.  BTW SF never secured a single right for anyone either.  Time for you to read a little more than the propaganda you have been fed for so long.

[yellowcard]

I thought that Brendan Crossan had a very good article in today's Irish News about how it was bestowing nationalists/republicans to reflect for a minute themselves and ask if they would have reacted any differently. I would concur with his view and Creggan were unfortunate in that the same situation would undoubtedly have occurred at dozens of clubs throughout the province. The original article from Brolly was brave and he knew full well he would get plenty of flak over his defence of Heffron. On a human level you would want to be totally heartless not to feel sympathy for him and his daily suffering. Even in the reaction to his plight, plenty of republicans have more or less shown a complete apathy to his situation. To be alienated and isolated by your own people must be the worst feeling in the world. Yes, he knew the fragility of the situation he was stepping into but thar doesn't excuse the complete futility of that bomb.

[Milltown Row2]

Who are they?  Why does SF not go all out to ensure that Catholics would feel comfortable in a career in community policing?

You know who they are.

I'm banging my head against a wall here. Your problem with policing is really your problem with SF.
Again with the Community policing. Not that I care what SF do most of the time but they do support community policing. They have no choice as communities need policing. The only reason they joined the board was to break the wall between communities and police. They didn't do nor can they do it, to break the legacy of policing or the culture of political policing.
Can you accept that community policing is not the barrier to feeling safe?

Exactly, SF are not a recruitment agency. PSNI are responsible for that. Milltown mentioned a Truth Commission, it seems a plausible idea but SF can never go for it. That truth commission should only be for those members of the security forces and/or informants who wronged imo. Anyone else were unpaid citizens of the state who were carrying out what they seen as a justified campaign. If SF sign up for a full truth commission they could be throwing some of their own under the bus.

Doubt if they would claim to be citizens of the state they were trying overthrow.  However, I would be interested in them justifying the killing of so many civilians, being the killers of the greatest number of Catholics and particularly their sectarian murders such as Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and so many more.

Does being paid by the IRA through robberies and overseas fundraising not count for the IRA members?

War is war. Mistakes happen. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire unfortunately. Whilst we're asking the IRA to apologise for killing civilians will we email Donald Trump and ask him to apologise for Hiroshima? Or was that a more justified massacre of civilians? Like it or lump it, the Catholic/ Nationalist community wouldn't have the rights or chances we have without the IRA campaign. Now the Catholic ''Middle-Class'' will never acknowledge this but its fact.

And as for Barry McGuigan, horrible person. Barney screwed him and he screwed Frampton

Holy feck! I've heard it now!! Brainwashed!!

[vallankumous]

A vicious circle thats never ending it seems... It's a pity people wont let go, I can imagine seeking justice would be your primary role in life if you have lost a loved one, thats over 3,500 who died over the troubles that families won't let go and i get that, a proper truth commission is the only way.. once through that then people can heal (of sorts)

I didnt realise there was still that much bitterness on here, doesn't take much for it to rise to the surface

There is no chance you or anyone else would ask Peadar to 'let go'. It would be unfair to ask that. He has some horrible injuries and trauma caused by someone else. In fact, we would expect him to not let go or move on. Nor would we describe him as bitter. We would all argue he has a right to be angry and frustrated but would not use the word 'bitter'.
THis applies to all victims. There are many victims on all sides. Some victims deal with it in a different way to others. Victims should not be expected to have the same approach as each other nor the same approach as non victims. To ask them to 'let it go' is inhumane. It needs a much wider all inclusive approach.

A poster claimed earlier that it doesn't take much to stir up the bitterness. This is not the case. For that poster this is a reminder. One which pops up now and then. Victims live with reminders everyday. Peadar does not need a headline story or a national debate to remind him of how he feels.

There is a hierarchy of victims. There always is. There is a wider acceptance that those hurt by security forces in some way, regardless of who they are, hold some of the responsibility. If not then the community do, or the political leaders do etc. It is clearer to see the outrage of prisoners being abused in Guatanamo Bay by Irish people yet accusations of torture in Ireland do not cause outrage. There is blame attached to the victims here.

There is never the same innocence applied to victims of the security forces. That's the winners writing the history as we watch it unfold. Victims of security forces are asked to let it go or to move on much more than victims of paramilitaries. I think it's wrong to ask this of any victim. Addressing it is the only cure, forgetting or ignoring won't solve anything.

[PMG1]

Joe will be putting his wits against Crossmaglen tomorrow with the st. Brigids U16 team in the Paul McGirr Ulster U16 Tournament, will be interesting to see how he gets on.

[Avondhu star]

Who are they?  Why does SF not go all out to ensure that Catholics would feel comfortable in a career in community policing?

You know who they are.

I'm banging my head against a wall here. Your problem with policing is really your problem with SF.
Again with the Community policing. Not that I care what SF do most of the time but they do support community policing. They have no choice as communities need policing. The only reason they joined the board was to break the wall between communities and police. They didn't do nor can they do it, to break the legacy of policing or the culture of political policing.
Can you accept that community policing is not the barrier to feeling safe?

Exactly, SF are not a recruitment agency. PSNI are responsible for that. Milltown mentioned a Truth Commission, it seems a plausible idea but SF can never go for it. That truth commission should only be for those members of the security forces and/or informants who wronged imo. Anyone else were unpaid citizens of the state who were carrying out what they seen as a justified campaign. If SF sign up for a full truth commission they could be throwing some of their own under the bus.

Doubt if they would claim to be citizens of the state they were trying overthrow.  However, I would be interested in them justifying the killing of so many civilians, being the killers of the greatest number of Catholics and particularly their sectarian murders such as Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and so many more.

Does being paid by the IRA through robberies and overseas fundraising not count for the IRA members?

War is war. Mistakes happen. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire unfortunately. Whilst we're asking the IRA to apologise for killing civilians will we email Donald Trump and ask him to apologise for Hiroshima? Or was that a more justified massacre of civilians? Like it or lump it, the Catholic/ Nationalist community wouldn't have the rights or chances we have without the IRA campaign. Now the Catholic ''Middle-Class'' will never acknowledge this but its fact.

And as for Barry McGuigan, horrible person. Barney screwed him and he screwed Frampton

What a gobshite you are

[Milltown Row2]

A vicious circle thats never ending it seems... It's a pity people wont let go, I can imagine seeking justice would be your primary role in life if you have lost a loved one, thats over 3,500 who died over the troubles that families won't let go and i get that, a proper truth commission is the only way.. once through that then people can heal (of sorts)

I didnt realise there was still that much bitterness on here, doesn't take much for it to rise to the surface

There is no chance you or anyone else would ask Peadar to 'let go'. It would be unfair to ask that. He has some horrible injuries and trauma caused by someone else. In fact, we would expect him to not let go or move on. Nor would we describe him as bitter. We would all argue he has a right to be angry and frustrated but would not use the word 'bitter'.
THis applies to all victims. There are many victims on all sides. Some victims deal with it in a different way to others. Victims should not be expected to have the same approach as each other nor the same approach as non victims. To ask them to 'let it go' is inhumane. It needs a much wider all inclusive approach.

A poster claimed earlier that it doesn't take much to stir up the bitterness. This is not the case. For that poster this is a reminder. One which pops up now and then. Victims live with reminders everyday. Peadar does not need a headline story or a national debate to remind him of how he feels.

There is a hierarchy of victims. There always is. There is a wider acceptance that those hurt by security forces in some way, regardless of who they are, hold some of the responsibility. If not then the community do, or the political leaders do etc. It is clearer to see the outrage of prisoners being abused in Guatanamo Bay by Irish people yet accusations of torture in Ireland do not cause outrage. There is blame attached to the victims here.

There is never the same innocence applied to victims of the security forces. That's the winners writing the history as we watch it unfold. Victims of security forces are asked to let it go or to move on much more than victims of paramilitaries. I think it's wrong to ask this of any victim. Addressing it is the only cure, forgetting or ignoring won't solve anything.

I don't know where to start with this reply... there is no difference or hierarchy of victims of the troubles, whether he was a peeler shot at his front door or an IRA man shot on active duty to the innocent victim caught out by a bomb blast, all victims all suffering, all wanting closure if they didn't get it!

There has been over 3,500 deaths I'd say 20% of those deaths the perpetrators were caught and a closure of sorts given, though with the GFA they were let out of gaol.

If we continue to go down the route of trying to solve every case it will take another 30 years and millions of money! A proper truth commission will at least give closure to the majority of those cases, in most cases the police know who did it but didn't have the evidence to prove it... I never said it would be easy to let go, the bitterness will always be there..

If we don't move on then we'll not get proper policing shared communities integrated schools and intergrated living! Seems for most that's not what they are looking for

[Jim Bob]

Who are they?  Why does SF not go all out to ensure that Catholics would feel comfortable in a career in community policing?

You know who they are.

I'm banging my head against a wall here. Your problem with policing is really your problem with SF.
Again with the Community policing. Not that I care what SF do most of the time but they do support community policing. They have no choice as communities need policing. The only reason they joined the board was to break the wall between communities and police. They didn't do nor can they do it, to break the legacy of policing or the culture of political policing.
Can you accept that community policing is not the barrier to feeling safe?

Exactly, SF are not a recruitment agency. PSNI are responsible for that. Milltown mentioned a Truth Commission, it seems a plausible idea but SF can never go for it. That truth commission should only be for those members of the security forces and/or informants who wronged imo. Anyone else were unpaid citizens of the state who were carrying out what they seen as a justified campaign. If SF sign up for a full truth commission they could be throwing some of their own under the bus.

Doubt if they would claim to be citizens of the state they were trying overthrow.  However, I would be interested in them justifying the killing of so many civilians, being the killers of the greatest number of Catholics and particularly their sectarian murders such as Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and so many more.

Does being paid by the IRA through robberies and overseas fundraising not count for the IRA members?

War is war. Mistakes happen. Innocent people get caught in the crossfire unfortunately. Whilst we're asking the IRA to apologise for killing civilians will we email Donald Trump and ask him to apologise for Hiroshima? Or was that a more justified massacre of civilians? Like it or lump it, the Catholic/ Nationalist community wouldn't have the rights or chances we have without the IRA campaign. Now the Catholic ''Middle-Class'' will never acknowledge this but its fact.

Who told you that, Gerry Adams?

[Il Bomber Destro]

Now we have fake dissident threats!! You are properly blinded lad... Omagh was fake you'll be telling me next, you probably blame the media for that or the police! I know who you won't blame

The Police have to take a share of the blame for Omagh for both letting it happen and the subsequent investigation which makes you ponder.

No one has responsibility or blame for the killing of 29 innocents in Omagh other than the IRA members who planned the attack, built the bomb, delivered it to Omagh, set the timer, failed to give correct details of the position of the bomb, helped all involved to escape and have given them support and kept them safe since 1998. 

According to your twisted analysis the fault for all similar atrocities by the IRA, for example in Enniskillen, La Mon House Hotel, Claudy, etc, belongs to the police. 

In the same way do you believe that the Garda has responsibility for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

I certainly think security forces not acting on information that could have prevented a bombing certainly bear a responsibility. I don't defend the bombers but the RUC certainly have to take a portion of the blame, through incompetence or for political capital information which could have stopped the bombing was ignored by the RUC and MI6.

I think the Gardai and Irish Government share a great deal of responsibility for not bringing justice to the families of the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings which has the fingerprints of British involvement all over them.

[Milltown Row2]

So not the bomb maker and person/s who ordered it ? You're a strange being, I remember the Enniskillen bomb which blew up pensioners, they tried to claim that the police triggered the bomb early!

People believed that to, same people who believe in Santa, Toothfairy, and aliens

[Il Bomber Destro]

So not the bomb maker and person/s who ordered it ? You're a strange being, I remember the Enniskillen bomb which blew up pensioners, they tried to claim that the police triggered the bomb early!

People believed that to, same people who believe in Santa, Toothfairy, and aliens

Again where did I say they don't bear responsibility? Of course they do.

On the other hand, you seem to be attempting to censure any comment about how security forces have failed to act on intelligence of attacks. Why shouldn't we discuss that? The nationalist community still has a lot of mistrust with the PSNI and security forces and there is very good reason for that, you seem to wish to censure that.

[Milltown Row2]

So not the bomb maker and person/s who ordered it ? You're a strange being, I remember the Enniskillen bomb which blew up pensioners, they tried to claim that the police triggered the bomb early!

People believed that to, same people who believe in Santa, Toothfairy, and aliens

Again where did I say they don't bear responsibility? Of course they do.

On the other hand, you seem to be attempting to censure any comment about how security forces have failed to act on intelligence of attacks. Why shouldn't we discuss that? The nationalist community still has a lot of mistrust with the PSNI and security forces and there is very good reason for that, you seem to wish to censure that.

Plant a bomb take responsibility... police kill an innocent persons take responsibility... Ive no problem in apportioning blame, it's a murky business but nobody knows who was in bed with who in this.. but don't be a dick a claim that the police are to blame for Omagh