Joe Brolly

[Mike Sheehy]

go on, be honest, you lapped it up when he was on the Tyrone bandwagon. What is amazing is how you lads didn't see it coming. You should have known he always backs the winner.

[BennyHarp]

go on, be honest, you lapped it up when he was on the Tyrone bandwagon. What is amazing is how you lads didn't see it coming. You should have known he always backs the winner.

I agree, he does always back the winner, it's his lazy style of analysis.

[DuffleKing]

Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works?

Yes. Repeatedly[/b]

Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it?

No

Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route?

Yes. Its a single point but he has repeated it often enough

If you read or listen to the man you would know this. Don't let that stop you

Post up Brolly's analysis of the packed defence there when you get a chance - i'd love to read it.

In my experience, Brolly hasn't the first breeze about the game, how gameplans have developed and why. He has no understanding watching a game what teams are trying to achieve - that's patently obvious from his contributions during RTE broadcasts.

The advent of twitter has given a platform and even credibility to people who should have no input into proposing rule changes within the GAA. Given the demand for "live" news through that and other mediums now, media outlets are only too happy to make a headline out of some dramatic "look at me" quote from mediocre past players who usually have not coached at any significant level.

Reputation in my own county would place the new chairman of the rules advisory group, or whatever they're calling them this time round, at the bottom of the pile if you were nominating someone to systematically and coherently analyse the need for rule changes. Of course the mandating of this committee at all implies the need for rule changes and preordains that there will be proposals brought forward. Not a great starting point.

If there must be another review of the playing rules, and I object strongly to that pretense, then who are the best people to conduct the review?

Administrators? from what level?
managers? from what level?
coaches? from what level?
players? from what level?
non playing members?
the press / media?
former players? from what level?
spectators?

[Mike Sheehy]

Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works?

Yes. Repeatedly

Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it?

No

Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route?

Yes. Its a single point but he has repeated it often enough

If you read or listen to the man you would know this. Don't let that stop you

Brolly is right. The big question is why he is only coming out with these criticisms now ?

I always remember hearing the phrase "you have to earn the right to play football" in the noughties and wondering what exactly it meant. I guess Brolly finally figured out the obvious implication of euphemisms like that. 

[INDIANA]

Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works?

Yes. Repeatedly[/b]

Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it?

No

Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route?

Yes. Its a single point but he has repeated it often enough

If you read or listen to the man you would know this. Don't let that stop you

Post up Brolly's analysis of the packed defence there when you get a chance - i'd love to read it.

In my experience, Brolly hasn't the first breeze about the game, how gameplans have developed and why. He has no understanding watching a game what teams are trying to achieve - that's patently obvious from his contributions during RTE broadcasts.

The advent of twitter has given a platform and even credibility to people who should have no input into proposing rule changes within the GAA. Given the demand for "live" news through that and other mediums now, media outlets are only too happy to make a headline out of some dramatic "look at me" quote from mediocre past players who usually have not coached at any significant level.

Reputation in my own county would place the new chairman of the rules advisory group, or whatever they're calling them this time round, at the bottom of the pile if you were nominating someone to systematically and coherently analyse the need for rule changes. Of course the mandating of this committee at all implies the need for rule changes and preordains that there will be proposals brought forward. Not a great starting point.

If there must be another review of the playing rules, and I object strongly to that pretense, then who are the best people to conduct the review?

Administrators? from what level?
managers? from what level?
coaches? from what level?
players? from what level?
non playing members?
the press / media?
former players? from what level?
spectators?

Current coaches certainly not. They've all adopted the herd mentality of abdicating their responsibilities of coaching teams instead to play like a bunch of gorillas on day release from Dublin Zoo. Throw a few bananas in a team's own half and watch their all congregate there.

Its not rocket science how to fix it. You make it sound like nuclear physics. Because you want it to be so complicated nobody will do anything about it.

The preserve of county teams currently is the handpass. You limit the handpass.

You force teams to kick the ball and contest possession man to man. Even soccer and rugby have a contest for posession. GAA largely doesn't anymore. If I pass the ball back in soccer the keeper will have to kick it long 9 times out of 10- ie a contest for possession. If I gather the ball in rugby outside the 22 I'll have to run it through a wall or kick it high to regather- in the latter case a contest for possession.

Contrast that to Gaelic football. everyone stands in their own half because keepers are allowed to kick it short and teams are also allowed multiple 2 yards hand passes all the way up until somebody fouls them.

It depends on what you want. If you want basketball there is always the NBA- if you want GAA let's see some kicking. It's laughable that it's possible to get to senior inter county football by being strong, fit and a good handpasser.

A lot of teams are against this because the two best kick-passing teams in Ireland are Dublin and Kerry.

[DuffleKing]

Can't wait to see these dublin kick passers unleashed because the current team run everything - done at pace I'll ggrant you but giving dublin a "kicking" tag is laughable.

Middle third are all athletic runners

[Mike Sheehy]

We should have a competition. Longest footpass seen in the last 6 months. From all accounts our crossfield balls against Tyrone are up there. Surely there are longer ? 

[omaghjoe]

We should have a competition. Longest footpass seen in the last 6 months. From all accounts our crossfield balls against Tyrone are up there. Surely there are longer ?

Yeah its bound to be one of those Hail Mary's yous lumped into Donaghy

[DuffleKing]

Indiana, you keep telling people to start their own association or go to another sport. You are the one who wants to change the game we have??

He didn't say who should be entrusted with deciding rule changes. Presumably just All Ireland medal winning wannabe coaches who can only see football played their way as being fair.

[imtommygunn]

Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works?

Yes. Repeatedly[/b]

Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it?

No

Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route?

Yes. Its a single point but he has repeated it often enough

If you read or listen to the man you would know this. Don't let that stop you

Post up Brolly's analysis of the packed defence there when you get a chance - i'd love to read it.

In my experience, Brolly hasn't the first breeze about the game, how gameplans have developed and why. He has no understanding watching a game what teams are trying to achieve - that's patently obvious from his contributions during RTE broadcasts.

The advent of twitter has given a platform and even credibility to people who should have no input into proposing rule changes within the GAA. Given the demand for "live" news through that and other mediums now, media outlets are only too happy to make a headline out of some dramatic "look at me" quote from mediocre past players who usually have not coached at any significant level.

Reputation in my own county would place the new chairman of the rules advisory group, or whatever they're calling them this time round, at the bottom of the pile if you were nominating someone to systematically and coherently analyse the need for rule changes. Of course the mandating of this committee at all implies the need for rule changes and preordains that there will be proposals brought forward. Not a great starting point.

If there must be another review of the playing rules, and I object strongly to that pretense, then who are the best people to conduct the review?

Administrators? from what level?
managers? from what level?
coaches? from what level?
players? from what level?
non playing members?
the press / media?
former players? from what level?
spectators?

Current coaches certainly not. They've all adopted the herd mentality of abdicating their responsibilities of coaching teams instead to play like a bunch of gorillas on day release from Dublin Zoo. Throw a few bananas in a team's own half and watch their all congregate there.

Its not rocket science how to fix it. You make it sound like nuclear physics. Because you want it to be so complicated nobody will do anything about it.

The preserve of county teams currently is the handpass. You limit the handpass.

You force teams to kick the ball and contest possession man to man. Even soccer and rugby have a contest for posession. GAA largely doesn't anymore. If I pass the ball back in soccer the keeper will have to kick it long 9 times out of 10- ie a contest for possession. If I gather the ball in rugby outside the 22 I'll have to run it through a wall or kick it high to regather- in the latter case a contest for possession.

Contrast that to Gaelic football. everyone stands in their own half because keepers are allowed to kick it short and teams are also allowed multiple 2 yards hand passes all the way up until somebody fouls them.

It depends on what you want. If you want basketball there is always the NBA- if you want GAA let's see some kicking. It's laughable that it's possible to get to senior inter county football by being strong, fit and a good handpasser.

A lot of teams are against this because the two best kick-passing teams in Ireland are Dublin and Kerry.

So let's tailor the game so the only way it can be played is in a way which will be most advantageous to Dublin?? (coincidentally your team...)

That's not really how sport works...

[Croí na hÉireann]

In the qualifiers, Westmeath went up to Omagh and gave Tyrone a lesson in defensive play and only lost by 2 points. I remember late on, they had a shot that rolled just wide across an empty goal. A couple of inches the other way and Kerry would have snuck in for another easy Sam, while Tyrone saved the hay.

Close. It was Dessie with that shot but there was a keeper in the way so that's why he went for the corner and the ensuing near miss across goal. That was after playing the second half with 14 men after Doran Harte was sent off after a bout of theatrics. Which neatly brings the discussion back to Brolly and his jibe at Jordan.

[INDIANA]

Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works?

Yes. Repeatedly[/b]

Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it?

No

Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route?

Yes. Its a single point but he has repeated it often enough

If you read or listen to the man you would know this. Don't let that stop you

Post up Brolly's analysis of the packed defence there when you get a chance - i'd love to read it.

In my experience, Brolly hasn't the first breeze about the game, how gameplans have developed and why. He has no understanding watching a game what teams are trying to achieve - that's patently obvious from his contributions during RTE broadcasts.

The advent of twitter has given a platform and even credibility to people who should have no input into proposing rule changes within the GAA. Given the demand for "live" news through that and other mediums now, media outlets are only too happy to make a headline out of some dramatic "look at me" quote from mediocre past players who usually have not coached at any significant level.

Reputation in my own county would place the new chairman of the rules advisory group, or whatever they're calling them this time round, at the bottom of the pile if you were nominating someone to systematically and coherently analyse the need for rule changes. Of course the mandating of this committee at all implies the need for rule changes and preordains that there will be proposals brought forward. Not a great starting point.

If there must be another review of the playing rules, and I object strongly to that pretense, then who are the best people to conduct the review?

Administrators? from what level?
managers? from what level?
coaches? from what level?
players? from what level?
non playing members?
the press / media?
former players? from what level?
spectators?

Current coaches certainly not. They've all adopted the herd mentality of abdicating their responsibilities of coaching teams instead to play like a bunch of gorillas on day release from Dublin Zoo. Throw a few bananas in a team's own half and watch their all congregate there.

Its not rocket science how to fix it. You make it sound like nuclear physics. Because you want it to be so complicated nobody will do anything about it.

The preserve of county teams currently is the handpass. You limit the handpass.

You force teams to kick the ball and contest possession man to man. Even soccer and rugby have a contest for posession. GAA largely doesn't anymore. If I pass the ball back in soccer the keeper will have to kick it long 9 times out of 10- ie a contest for possession. If I gather the ball in rugby outside the 22 I'll have to run it through a wall or kick it high to regather- in the latter case a contest for possession.

Contrast that to Gaelic football. everyone stands in their own half because keepers are allowed to kick it short and teams are also allowed multiple 2 yards hand passes all the way up until somebody fouls them.

It depends on what you want. If you want basketball there is always the NBA- if you want GAA let's see some kicking. It's laughable that it's possible to get to senior inter county football by being strong, fit and a good handpasser.

A lot of teams are against this because the two best kick-passing teams in Ireland are Dublin and Kerry.

So let's tailor the game so the only way it can be played is in a way which will be most advantageous to Dublin?? (coincidentally your team...)

That's not really how sport works...

It works by allowing the skills of the game to be shown . There are a lot of crap teams and equally crap coaches being saved by the current rules by being allowed to play a game that is so removed from what Gaelic football was envisaged it is nearly a different sport

If the footpass was removed from Gaelic Football most counties would be happy because most of them are uncomfortable kicking the ball. I watched one Tyrone player last week give 17 hand passes and no foot pass. And he probably thinks he's a good player . Ha ha

[AZOffaly]

In 1992 Matt Molloy played the All Ireland Final against Dublin and never kicked the ball once. I don't have an issue with the Hand Pass, in fact the Kerry teams of the Golden Era used the hand pass a lot (Including Bomber's goals!). When it is used as part of a quick movement of ball, I don't think there's anything boring or wrong with it.

That said, the quickest way of moving the ball is the kick pass, and that would be my preferred option where it is 'on', but you need movement, skills and space to execute that. The blanket defence chokes the space and limits the movement.

[BennyHarp]

Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works?

Yes. Repeatedly[/b]

Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it?

No

Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route?

Yes. Its a single point but he has repeated it often enough

If you read or listen to the man you would know this. Don't let that stop you

Post up Brolly's analysis of the packed defence there when you get a chance - i'd love to read it.

In my experience, Brolly hasn't the first breeze about the game, how gameplans have developed and why. He has no understanding watching a game what teams are trying to achieve - that's patently obvious from his contributions during RTE broadcasts.

The advent of twitter has given a platform and even credibility to people who should have no input into proposing rule changes within the GAA. Given the demand for "live" news through that and other mediums now, media outlets are only too happy to make a headline out of some dramatic "look at me" quote from mediocre past players who usually have not coached at any significant level.

Reputation in my own county would place the new chairman of the rules advisory group, or whatever they're calling them this time round, at the bottom of the pile if you were nominating someone to systematically and coherently analyse the need for rule changes. Of course the mandating of this committee at all implies the need for rule changes and preordains that there will be proposals brought forward. Not a great starting point.

If there must be another review of the playing rules, and I object strongly to that pretense, then who are the best people to conduct the review?

Administrators? from what level?
managers? from what level?
coaches? from what level?
players? from what level?
non playing members?
the press / media?
former players? from what level?
spectators?

Current coaches certainly not. They've all adopted the herd mentality of abdicating their responsibilities of coaching teams instead to play like a bunch of gorillas on day release from Dublin Zoo. Throw a few bananas in a team's own half and watch their all congregate there.

Its not rocket science how to fix it. You make it sound like nuclear physics. Because you want it to be so complicated nobody will do anything about it.

The preserve of county teams currently is the handpass. You limit the handpass.

You force teams to kick the ball and contest possession man to man. Even soccer and rugby have a contest for posession. GAA largely doesn't anymore. If I pass the ball back in soccer the keeper will have to kick it long 9 times out of 10- ie a contest for possession. If I gather the ball in rugby outside the 22 I'll have to run it through a wall or kick it high to regather- in the latter case a contest for possession.

Contrast that to Gaelic football. everyone stands in their own half because keepers are allowed to kick it short and teams are also allowed multiple 2 yards hand passes all the way up until somebody fouls them.

It depends on what you want. If you want basketball there is always the NBA- if you want GAA let's see some kicking. It's laughable that it's possible to get to senior inter county football by being strong, fit and a good handpasser.

A lot of teams are against this because the two best kick-passing teams in Ireland are Dublin and Kerry.

So let's tailor the game so the only way it can be played is in a way which will be most advantageous to Dublin?? (coincidentally your team...)

That's not really how sport works...

It works by allowing the skills of the game to be shown . There are a lot of crap teams and equally crap coaches being saved by the current rules by being allowed to play a game that is so removed from what Gaelic football was envisaged it is nearly a different sport

If the footpass was removed from Gaelic Football most counties would be happy because most of them are uncomfortable kicking the ball. I watched one Tyrone player last week give 17 hand passes and no foot pass. And he probably thinks he's a good player . Ha ha

Imagine a sport where teams with lesser ability use tactics to get the better of another team. That's a mad concept and would never catch on in any other sport. It's particularly unfair to the likes of Dublin who crave a level playing field for Gaelic football and shouldn't be made to work to get results. By the way, there's more to the game than just kicking the ball, but you will also have noticed while watching Sunday's game some excellent KICKED points too, from distance by both teams, but that doesn't suit your argument as you just want everyone to turn around and hoof it. By your own logic of watching something else if you don't like what's on offer then you'd be better off going to watch this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Kick_Fada_Championship

[screenexile]

Just to put a bit of perspective on the Nordie bashing!!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/dig-deeper-to-see-true-reasons-for-defensive-malaise-in-gaelic-football-323000.html

PADDY HEANEY: Dig deeper to see true reasons for defensive malaise in Gaelic football

Back in the day when I believed that politics could improve the lot of the common man, I used to be enthralled by the British general election, writes Paddy Heaney.


Neil Kinnock versus Maggie Thatcher; Labour versus Conservative, or, as I saw it: The forces of good versus the forces of evil.

It was gripping stuff and I dreamed of a victory for the red rose.

However, those aspirations were always scuppered by a particular feature of the British electorate, which used to leave me boiling with anger. Maggie won because a significant percentage of working class people in Britain routinely voted for the Conservative Party.

I could never get my head around that phenomenon until I read the autobiography of the comedian, Frank Skinner (real name: Christopher Collins).

Skinner's father was a factory worker and a semi-professional footballer from Co Durham. A bread-and-butter northerner, John Collins could have been a poster boy for the working class. Yet, John Collins voted Tory all his life.

Skinner's father had a reason for his voting behaviour. He believed that the public school boys of Eton and Harrow were born, bred and educated to make decisions which were beyond the compass of the ordinary man.

John Collins reckoned that the Tories should be put in charge, because that's exactly what they were raised to do.

Frank Skinner's autobiography helped me to understand a mindset that had baffled me for years. More recently, it made me realise that it's not just the British who believe in class hierarchy.

The same thinking exists in the GAA. For Kerry and Dublin, read Eton and Harrow. With their combined tally of 61 All-Ireland titles, it could be said that these two counties form the ruling classes of Gaelic football.

It would also appear that certain sections of the Irish population get distinctly uncomfortable when the peasants gain power. During the past 25 years, the peasants have been the upstarts from Ulster that dared to win maiden All-Ireland titles.

It needs to be stressed that when an Ulster team made a breakthrough, the initial success was roundly celebrated. The novelty was welcomed.

However, the collective celebrations never lasted too long. Once any Ulster team threatens to rise above their station, there is a quiet desire for them to be put back in their box.

This serf-like reverence for Dublin and Kerry becomes abundantly obvious whenever there is any debate concerning the state of Gaelic football.

Take the much-documented match between Dublin and Derry in Croke Park. On the night of the game, an online report on Hogan Stand stated that: "With 19,224 spectators struggling to stay awake, the northerners played with 14 men behind the ball at all times as the Leinster champions tried in vain to find the key to unlock their mass rearguard action."

That observation would give the impression that Derry pulled every man into defence and held off a Dublin team that attacked them in droves.

That didn't happen, though. Dublin played exactly the same way as Derry. They set up the same defensive screen and exercised the same caution as their opponents.

Yet, for some commentators, there was only team to blame for the spectacle which unfolded at HQ.

"Last week's Dublin-Derry match was pretty much the last word in shit. And that's because the shit was where Derry wanted to drag the game," wrote Eamon Sweeney in the Sunday Independent.

"Harsh words," as Jackie Fullerton would say. As an avid soccer fan, Sweeney's willingness to identify Derry as the arch-villains is surprising.

Let's put the game in context. Dublin have won 24 All-Ireland titles to Derry's solitary victory in 1993.

Dublin were playing at home in front of nearly 20,000 supporters. In their last contest at the same venue, the Dubs hammered Derry by 3-19 to 1-10. To avoid a similar bloodbath, Derry manager Brian McIver decided to park the bus.

When Premier League teams visit Old Trafford, they routinely defend with 11 men. It's par for the course. It doesn't generate any outcry.

However, imagine the reaction if Manchester United played with 11 men behind the ball during a home game against Hull. There would be mutiny.

Yet, this is exactly what Jim Gavin did when a Derry side fighting relegation came to Dublin. Despite the fact that Dublin were just as defensive as Derry, Gavin was able to peddle the line that his team were the hapless victims of northern intransigence.

"We have a few things to work on, but we played a very defensive team," said Gavin afterwards.

It's scarcely believable. Dublin defend with 14 men. Then the Dublin manager claims the opposition are "defensive", and fawning commentators continue to believe that the Dubs are the custodians of champagne football.

Jim Gavin likes to portray Dublin as paragons of attacking football and he was trumpeting that message after Sunday's 11-point win over Monaghan.

"We try to play an expansive game. Teams who have employed a different defensive system have been very, very successful and that's the way it is," said the Dublin manager.

There is only one problem with Gavin's statement. It's not entirely accurate. As a newcomer to Twitter (@HeaneyPaddy), I posted a couple of photographs from the game in Clones. In one of the pictures, when Monaghan were on the attack, Dublin had 14 players inside their own half of the field. Dublin were leading by five points at the time. I believe this is what Mr Sweeney would call: "The last word in shit."

Yet, Ireland after his team defended with 14 men when leading by five points.

Nevertheless, no-one blinked an eye when Gavin made this statement on Sunday. When I pointed out that Dublin had repeatedly defended with a dozen players, Gavin replied: "They were just following their men. If Monaghan players attack they have to be followed... I don't think you could suggest that we play a defensive game, but I certainly expect my players to follow their opposing markers when they go into our half and that's what we did."

Again, Gavin's claim doesn't withstand scrutiny. Look at the photograph. Five Monaghan players are standing in splendid isolation because their markers have joined Dublin's defensive scrum.

Every time Monaghan got the ball into the scoring zone, Dublin defended in the same manner. Nearly every player in the team retreated into one half of the field.

Yet, any neutral observer listening to the debate surrounding the emphasis being placed on defensive football would quickly leap to the conclusion that it's a strategy mainly employed by northern teams. Dublin are above that sort of thing.

As for Kerry, on Sunday they committed 34 fouls to Tyrone's 14. A one-off occurrence? When the All-Ireland champions visited Celtic Park in February, they committed almost three times as many fouls as Derry in the first half (21-8). At full-time the foul count read: Kerry 32 Derry 18.

However, it is Ulster teams that are supposed to be the main perpetrators of negative tactics. Again, there can be a stark contrast between perceptions and facts.

Still, it is good that a debate is taking place about the ultra-negative game plans dominating Gaelic football.

However, the debate needs to centre on what is actually happening. It should be fuelled by evidence and not by the misguided notions of men behind keyboards who still can't see that the emperor's team is defending with 14 players.

Follow Paddy Heaney on twitter: @HeaneyPaddy