Author Topic: Joe Brolly  (Read 698331 times)

Eamonnca1

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #855 on: January 11, 2015, 09:14:22 PM »
But surely with there being so many competitions, if you cut back on the number of inter-county games they'll be under less pressure to train so much?

orangeman

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #856 on: January 11, 2015, 11:49:22 PM »
Somebody mentioned that we train 12/13 times for every match ?. Surely that ratio is too high ?.

Has anyone the proper figures on this ?. Pre season soccer compared to Gaa - how long is pre season professional soccer ( not that we can fairly and / or accurately compare ) ?.

Zulu

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #857 on: January 11, 2015, 11:53:25 PM »
There's no need to choose between player welfare and more revenue. If you abolish the national leagues and play the provincial championships in a round robin format there's a ton of advantages.

  • The integrity, traditions, and local rivalries of the provincial championships are retained.
  • If you shut the back door and go to a straight knockout with no All-Ireland quarter finals, the prestige of the provincial championships is restored beyond question.
  • Abolition of the league means that the championship season (which is the real money generator) is extended but the overall inter-county season is shortened and creates more room in the calendar for the clubs.
  • A round robin provincial championship means that teams get a lot more then two guaranteed games, making them a better deal for sponsors.
  • You have more control over who plays in the first game, so you can open the competition with a bang by bringing two big hitters together.
  • It's a simpler and more understandable format than the current convoluted modified knockout competition that's almost impossible to diagram.

I'd kick New York and London out of the All-Ireland championship. GAA units outside of Ireland should be concentrating on organising competitions in their own respective countries and playing games that they have a chance of actually winning. It's time New York and London had more locally-born players in their ranks and stopped viewing this as entertainment for emigrants, but that's another story.

I'd also abolish those pre-season inter-county competitions. There's no need for them. Ditto for the lower-tier inter-county hurling competitions (Christy Ring, Nickey Rackard etc. cups). If you want to improve the standard in developing counties then do it at club level; that's what the club competitions are for. The standard of the county team will rise with it.

There's not enough joined-up thinking in the GAA.  Not enough "big picture" vision. Too much compartmentalized looking at each competition in isolation and trying to promote each one as an end in itself. Time to look at all the competitions together and assess what their roles are. The inter-county championship is a spectator event that brings in big money and inspires the next generation of players. The club competitions are for representing small communities and honing the skills of the players. The national leagues? WTF is the point of them? What's the point of the O'Byrne Cup and Waterford Crystal Cup and all these other obscure matches for?

It might sound like a slash and burn with a lot of competitions being dropped, but with the unsustainable workload on players and the sinister actions of the GPA looming over everything, something has to give.

Agree with much of what you say but your solution is infinitely worse IMO.

seafoid

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #858 on: January 12, 2015, 08:03:27 AM »
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0111/671850-brolly-calls-for-club-county-manager-restrictions/

"Sunday Game analyst Joe Brolly has called for a ban on non-members managing clubs and insisted county managers should be from within the county.

Brolly made the comments as part of a wide-ranging panel discussion on RTÉ Sunday Sport about player welfare, the balance between club and county commitments and the state of Gaelic football.

Brolly said that “over the last 15 years, we have imported professional sport practices into an amateur, community-based game. And what has happened is that players, in essence, put their lives on hold between the ages of 20 and 30.

“It used to be for club and county and all that. Whenever I was playing football, everyone had careers, they developed their careers. We trained twice a week with the county, maybe three times. It was part of a healthy, balanced life.

“The problem now is that you’ve got some county teams who are training ten times a week.”

In a newspaper column last Sunday, Brolly had said that players were little better than “battery hens”. In a follow-up column he took issue at payments to managers within the GAA.

Brolly told RTÉ Sport that “slowly but surely we are moving away from the community-based idealistic organisation that we’re meant to be.

“Now you’ve got a black market in paid managers. It’s absolutely thriving. Players are suffering like never before. It’s happening at club and county level.”"
Lookit

macdanger2

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #859 on: January 12, 2015, 09:54:03 AM »
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0111/671850-brolly-calls-for-club-county-manager-restrictions/

"Sunday Game analyst Joe Brolly has called for a ban on non-members managing clubs and insisted county managers should be from within the county.

Brolly made the comments as part of a wide-ranging panel discussion on RTÉ Sunday Sport about player welfare, the balance between club and county commitments and the state of Gaelic football.

Brolly said that “over the last 15 years, we have imported professional sport practices into an amateur, community-based game. And what has happened is that players, in essence, put their lives on hold between the ages of 20 and 30.

“It used to be for club and county and all that. Whenever I was playing football, everyone had careers, they developed their careers. We trained twice a week with the county, maybe three times. It was part of a healthy, balanced life.

“The problem now is that you’ve got some county teams who are training ten times a week.”

In a newspaper column last Sunday, Brolly had said that players were little better than “battery hens”. In a follow-up column he took issue at payments to managers within the GAA.

Brolly told RTÉ Sport that “slowly but surely we are moving away from the community-based idealistic organisation that we’re meant to be.

“Now you’ve got a black market in paid managers. It’s absolutely thriving. Players are suffering like never before. It’s happening at club and county level.”"

Did someone on here not come up with that idea a couple of weeks back?

Walter Cronc

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #860 on: January 12, 2015, 09:56:34 AM »
I think Brolly said a good while back about club managers having to come from within their own county. Half of Derrys best managers are with Tyrone clubs!!

samwin08

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Re: Joe Brolly Reality and Myth
« Reply #861 on: January 12, 2015, 10:44:50 AM »
I have not known any GAA manager who got rich by managing a Gaelic football club or county.
People  please--- we need to cop on about this--the reality is far from the myth-- I can assure  you, most managers struggle to get reasonable expenses and certainly do not get re reimbursed for their time commitment, ( if a club or county  are lucky enough to have a wealthy business person who loves the GAA, then that is a different perspective  as the GAA is not providing the money in this scenario and therefore  not to be confused with County Boards or Clubs paying managers.
As for Joe Brolly, well guys he is probably one of the ex players who is   extremely well paid for his commentary on all things GAA, but his views are typical  of a middle aged anxious Dad as he views  the sporting  careers  of his teenage kids coming under pressure from their genes, their birthplace, from their peers and from their environment and therefore his  perceived problems of the GAA  are a focus point of his blame game.

All the best for 2015

johnneycool

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #862 on: January 12, 2015, 10:53:45 AM »
The championship is far too elongated, with it being all too common for there being three weeks between games, meaning managers feel the need to train all the longer.

Two weeks max between games for everyone even if that does mean the likes of the Leinster football championship starting earlier than Ulster, Connaght and Munster.

Won't suit the TV rights, but something has gotta give.

LeoMc

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Re: Joe Brolly Reality and Myth
« Reply #863 on: January 12, 2015, 12:41:26 PM »
I have not known any GAA manager who got rich by managing a Gaelic football club or county.
People  please--- we need to cop on about this--the reality is far from the myth-- I can assure  you, most managers struggle to get reasonable expenses and certainly do not get re reimbursed for their time commitment, ( if a club or county  are lucky enough to have a wealthy business person who loves the GAA, then that is a different perspective  as the GAA is not providing the money in this scenario and therefore  not to be confused with County Boards or Clubs paying managers.
As for Joe Brolly, well guys he is probably one of the ex players who is   extremely well paid for his commentary on all things GAA, but his views are typical  of a middle aged anxious Dad as he views  the sporting  careers  of his teenage kids coming under pressure from their genes, their birthplace, from their peers and from their environment and therefore his  perceived problems of the GAA  are a focus point of his blame game.

All the best for 2015

I am confused by the first part of your post, are you trying to say that big payments are a myth or that they are OK if they come from wealthy benefactors and not directly from the clubs?

I would agree that MOST managers would not get rich and they do put in a lot of time, not just training sessions & matches but on the phone to players or sitting with a notebook figuring out drills, team line-up's etc.  There has to be a love of the game to put that work in but mileage expenses are not great and only cover the trips to and from training & games not the other time and it would be disengenuous to argue that generous enducements are not commonplace.

One could just as easily stack up a players commitments, gym time, nights in, etc, or the ground-keeper or the Secretary to justify their being paid!

Alternatively you could argue that a club (or wealthy benefactor) is simply paying for a specialised service like Prunty or Physios or hire of a gym not available within the club.

Either way there is a debate to be had rather than brushing it under the carpet.


As for the second part and your attack on Brolly, have a wee read back over this thread to see what money he is paid for his commentary on all things GAA.

NaomhBridAbú

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #864 on: January 12, 2015, 01:01:52 PM »
Im thinking that the number of paid for managers is exaggerated by Joe Brolly to make a very valid point, but the exaggeration almost in itself attacks the argument

over the last few months I have spoken to a number of people involved in club management mainly in Armagh, Tyrone and Derry, and a couple in Antrim

Right now there are some clubs with serious aspirations on the look out for management - at least 4 in Tyrone Div 1 , 3-4 in Armagh Div 1 and 1 I know of in Derry....must be a similar picture across the province in Down, Antrim etc

There are over 2000 clubs in the country, but in the 32 senior championships, there are only ever going to be 3-4 teams who have a chance to win...so in Armagh it always looks like Crossmaglen, yet in Tyrone there are maybe 6 possibles...in Antrim it always looks like St galls and in Down there could be 3 or 4 etc....etc...

Dublin might be a different picture with the finance available to some clubs, but rural clubs right now are struggling to run their clubs in the black...

Payments to managers will never appear on a club accounts and never acknowledged by a treasurer, but it does happen - whether its in a brown envelope with a local business man or an "in-kind' arrangement which suits both parties....

Take into account the fact that only a few clubs will ever realistically EVER have a chance o winning anything....either through resource, standard of players etc...

Managers are GETTING PAID, there is no doubt about that, its just trying to get a handle on how many are, and how much....

...and then really getting an idea of what can seriously be done about it...




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JoG2

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #865 on: January 12, 2015, 01:30:35 PM »
Im thinking that the number of paid for managers is exaggerated by Joe Brolly to make a very valid point, but the exaggeration almost in itself attacks the argument

over the last few months I have spoken to a number of people involved in club management mainly in Armagh, Tyrone and Derry, and a couple in Antrim

Right now there are some clubs with serious aspirations on the look out for management - at least 4 in Tyrone Div 1 , 3-4 in Armagh Div 1 and 1 I know of in Derry....must be a similar picture across the province in Down, Antrim etc

There are over 2000 clubs in the country, but in the 32 senior championships, there are only ever going to be 3-4 teams who have a chance to win...so in Armagh it always looks like Crossmaglen, yet in Tyrone there are maybe 6 possibles...in Antrim it always looks like St galls and in Down there could be 3 or 4 etc....etc...

Dublin might be a different picture with the finance available to some clubs, but rural clubs right now are struggling to run their clubs in the black...

Payments to managers will never appear on a club accounts and never acknowledged by a treasurer, but it does happen - whether its in a brown envelope with a local business man or an "in-kind' arrangement which suits both parties....

Take into account the fact that only a few clubs will ever realistically EVER have a chance o winning anything....either through resource, standard of players etc...

Managers are GETTING PAID, there is no doubt about that, its just trying to get a handle on how many are, and how much....

...and then really getting an idea of what can seriously be done about it...

if certain junior clubs in Derry are paying outside managers (or have done so in the very recent past), then Brolly isnt exaggerating at all

NaomhBridAbú

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #866 on: January 12, 2015, 01:50:18 PM »
Im thinking that the number of paid for managers is exaggerated by Joe Brolly to make a very valid point, but the exaggeration almost in itself attacks the argument

over the last few months I have spoken to a number of people involved in club management mainly in Armagh, Tyrone and Derry, and a couple in Antrim

Right now there are some clubs with serious aspirations on the look out for management - at least 4 in Tyrone Div 1 , 3-4 in Armagh Div 1 and 1 I know of in Derry....must be a similar picture across the province in Down, Antrim etc

There are over 2000 clubs in the country, but in the 32 senior championships, there are only ever going to be 3-4 teams who have a chance to win...so in Armagh it always looks like Crossmaglen, yet in Tyrone there are maybe 6 possibles...in Antrim it always looks like St galls and in Down there could be 3 or 4 etc....etc...

Dublin might be a different picture with the finance available to some clubs, but rural clubs right now are struggling to run their clubs in the black...

Payments to managers will never appear on a club accounts and never acknowledged by a treasurer, but it does happen - whether its in a brown envelope with a local business man or an "in-kind' arrangement which suits both parties....

Take into account the fact that only a few clubs will ever realistically EVER have a chance o winning anything....either through resource, standard of players etc...

Managers are GETTING PAID, there is no doubt about that, its just trying to get a handle on how many are, and how much....

...and then really getting an idea of what can seriously be done about it...

if certain junior clubs in Derry are paying outside managers (or have done so in the very recent past), then Brolly isnt exaggerating at all

Joe "only" exaggerates
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Pangurban

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #867 on: January 12, 2015, 03:51:16 PM »
Joes exposition on the Sunday  Game re. where the GAA is at, and the unrealistic demands being made on amateur players, was the best analysis i have heard yet, and deserves serious debate at all levels within the association up too and including congress. We are drifting away from our charter and our roots, towards an elitist professional ideal which will not serve our association well

muppet

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #868 on: January 12, 2015, 04:56:16 PM »
Joes exposition on the Sunday  Game re. where the GAA is at, and the unrealistic demands being made on amateur players, was the best analysis i have heard yet, and deserves serious debate at all levels within the association up too and including congress. We are drifting away from our charter and our roots, towards an elitist professional ideal which will not serve our association well

I am amazed by the fact that many good posters here will defend payment to managers. In particular payment to outside managers. Fund raising, as we all know, is a struggle for any club, but to transfer the majority those funds out of the club to one individual is not reasonable imho.

If players and officials can be expected to make huge sacrifices for their club, then so can the senior team-manager. I agree with Brolly on this one.
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Croí na hÉireann

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #869 on: January 12, 2015, 05:24:14 PM »
Yep, forcing the manager to be an actual member of the club makes eminent sense. Although I'm sure the cash hungry managers would adapt though and recategorise themselves as "training coaches" or some other gun for hire terminology.
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