Author Topic: Joe Brolly  (Read 736179 times)

Keyser soze

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5505 on: February 07, 2020, 09:54:33 AM »
I work with a number of people who always made a point to call it Londonderry, the level of seethe when I also started to refer to it as Londonderry is unbelievable, they know I am taking the piss out of them but there is f++k all they can do about it.

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5506 on: February 07, 2020, 10:14:58 AM »
Have to admit that the first thing that jumped out at me when I read that BBC report on Francie Brolly's death was the reference to Londonderry. For a well known republican and after his death, I'm not offended but like seriously do some people have no cop on. It's like the time Joe Brolly himself described how Jim Wells introduced him to someone as the former Londonderry footballer just to try and score a point.     

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5507 on: February 07, 2020, 02:30:22 PM »
BBC has history here like when thy continually referred to the 2013 Fleadh taking place in Londonderry. But the worst was Alan Green in his Radio 5 phone in ‘So who’s on the line?’ John from Derry ‘Ok John from Londonderry, what’s your question?’  The best was from Bradley Walsh in the final Chase. I can’t remember the question but a contestant buzzed and said ‘Londonderry’ Bradley ‘ Wrong Derry’ The man’s been a hero since
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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5508 on: February 07, 2020, 04:47:00 PM »
20 plus years ago I worked for a builders merchants and had to type out dispatch notes, we delivered daily to a well known house builder who had a site in Derry city. When the dispatch note was issued it automatically raised the invoice. The said company contacted our accounts department to say that they would not be honouring invoices that did not have the correct site address on, namely LondonDerry.

My boss who was a decent protestant man called me to his office and said he understood my position and would not ask me to do anything made me uncomfortable and that any dockets I did not want to type leave to one side and he would get another member of staff to raise them. I though he handled it well but in 2010 when the builder went to the wall it was the only time I every got satisfaction to see a company go belly up.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5509 on: February 07, 2020, 05:11:42 PM »
If people want to use the word I have no problem with it my issue with the London thing is people obviously using it to cause offence. There is no other reason why you would do it.

I know numerous Protestants who say Derry therefore it's only the ones who want to make a point that say it and are being pricks.

Anyone who isn't a Protestant and uses it is only trying to offend someone from Derry so are also being pricks (most generally used by but not confined to our more hated Tyrone neighbours)




I'm a little surprised at you screen, while I wouldn't expect any less from some of the windowlickers in this thread to fail to grasp the point, you're usually smart & clued up enough that I would have thought you'd have understood that the point I was making wasn't solely about whatever name is used to label a certain place, and that alone.

So I'll expand upon this - does your right not to be offended trump my right to offend (either inadvertently or deliberately)? If the answer is no, then must my right to offend be absolute? And if the answer is yes, then should everyone have the right not to be offended?

For "no", I'd argue that my right to offend be absolute is not valid because such a POV is at best heavily authoritarian, servile & oppressive, and at worst be utterly destructive. Whoever determines how far this right goes is determined by whom is in the position to enforce it, and thankfully in the majority of cases there is a consensus or at least a somewhat flexible fairness. This can be via a government, whom by definition hold a monopoly on enforcing violence over a certain place, a private club, a school, ones own home etc. which can have many overlapping points. Within the GAA, for historical and cultural reasons the use of the word "Londonderry" or even the milder "L/Derry" does not tend to be received well among its patrons, at the least, therefore all such units in that location & teams representing it are deemed "Derry" or "Doire". On the other hand, on Wikipedia all pages that concern units of the GAA in Derry, by rule, refer to their location as being in "County Londonderry" - this is due to Wikipedia's notability guidelines as well as a desire to be factually, historically & legally accurate where in this sense, the name of the county is determined by how it is legally described by its ruling central government (i.e. the UK government). In both examples, those decisions were reached upon an agreed consensus in their communities.

But if the answer to the first question is "yes", then should nobody say anything lest someone claims offence at what you say? This is a classic example of the "thin edge of the wedge" argument. The only reason "Londonderry" is offensive to someone like yourself is because you have been taught & conditioned since birth to take it as such - it is not naturally an offensive word and indeed on its own it was not created solely to express offence. Everything we take as offence has become so because like the example I've mentioned, we've learned to take it as such - nothing is "naturally" offensive, the closest are words or phrases that are created to be solely derogatory but even then this relies on both parties to share a common understanding when communicating e.g. spoken or written language, or certain body expressions. Still, they're all taught & learned from birth.

Now take this concept of being "offended" and broaden its scope. Much of the social progress that has evolved over decades and centuries not only in Ireland but all over the world has happened because some people were willing to cause offence. Dictators, tyrants, authoritarians etc. love to use the tool of being offended or outraged to silence criticism - most of the famed authoritarian national leaders on this planet as well as plenty of those looking to suck up to them are incredibly thin skinned. Xi Jinping notably does not like being compared to Whinnie The Pooh. Closer to home, comedy & satire has been a significant force in evoking change both politically and socially. While Dave Allen was cracking jokes about the Catholic Church and its hierarchy in Britain, he was essentially persona non grate for RTE. Spitting Image was doing that also, not to mention the likes of Brass Eye which courted a quare amount of controversy when it did its "Paedophile" special. Anyway, hopefully you understand the point.

So lets go back on to this forum. In the last few weeks there's been several occasions where a some posters have expressed "PC Gone MAAAAAAD!" yet when you look at the stories in question, they are either the suggestions from just one person, or a small team/group of no significance, or someone like PETA whom are just professional trolls at this point. Then mean next to nothing in the greater social context and will nearly always be quickly forgotten about - but one thing you can be ensured of is someone willing to blow shit out of all proportion, and we have it right here with several posters whom IMO are going out of their way to be offended having been triggered by someone saying or doing something that is "Pee Cee". They are ironically practicing Political Correctness themselves in essentially asserting their own right to freely comment and offend, but demand respect or civility from their opponents. They are looking to claim some sort of victimhood & recognition without trying to earn it or justify it, hence the use of soundbites rather than any reasoning. That is not to say that sometimes such voices actually have a valid point - after all, a stopped clock is right twice a day not to mention that attention seeking arseholes are littered across all positions of politics and society. But there is a tendency growing in this world about not having to justify your ignorance or bigotry, and cry foul when you are being challenged on it. I think it needs empahsising that if someone is challenging your view or opinion on something, they are not "oppressing" you. The world does not stand still for anyone's personal whims, prejudices or bigotry. Essentially, we are slowly retreating from reason.

So about those words "Londonderry" and "L/Derry", if you haven't grasped it by now, they were used as literary tools to bring the examples of censorship, offence and the practice of "chilling effects" into a presence that could be easily understood, or at least I hoped. I'm very happy to support the right of someone to express a viewpoint as part of a reasoned discussion even if I strongly disagree with them, as to me an exchange of ideas and experiences is a general benefit to all, or at least most. What I struggle to tolerate are those whom just moan & moan more than some artificially enhanced 28GG porn actress on set being DP'd for the fifth time that day. And yes, I recognise the irony of moaning about those that moan about anything that gives them an excuse to do so - I just really don't want to do so if I can help it, the same way that in the last few years I've (with a very brief exception) refused to talk about a certain gobshite mentioned in the subject line of this thread because IMO he just isn't worth it - I don't go and seek him out to get myself offended, and if he pops up in the media then I either mute the TV, change the channel, or just quickly turn the page etc. Just move on! And on that front, I'll leave it there. Rant/argument over.
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BennyCake

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5510 on: February 07, 2020, 06:18:44 PM »
Worked with a group of people years ago, both sides. One Catholic girl had a sister in college in Derry, who she’d visit fairly regularly for the weekend. Come Monday, at every opportunity, one would ask “well X, how was your weekend in Londonderry?”. I used to just shake my head at the pettiness of it.

Champion The Wonder Horse

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5511 on: February 07, 2020, 07:38:11 PM »
If people want to use the word I have no problem with it my issue with the London thing is people obviously using it to cause offence. There is no other reason why you would do it.

I know numerous Protestants who say Derry therefore it's only the ones who want to make a point that say it and are being pricks.

Anyone who isn't a Protestant and uses it is only trying to offend someone from Derry so are also being pricks (most generally used by but not confined to our more hated Tyrone neighbours)




I'm a little surprised at you screen, while I wouldn't expect any less from some of the windowlickers in this thread to fail to grasp the point, you're usually smart & clued up enough that I would have thought you'd have understood that the point I was making wasn't solely about whatever name is used to label a certain place, and that alone.

So I'll expand upon this - does your right not to be offended trump my right to offend (either inadvertently or deliberately)? If the answer is no, then must my right to offend be absolute? And if the answer is yes, then should everyone have the right not to be offended?

For "no", I'd argue that my right to offend be absolute is not valid because such a POV is at best heavily authoritarian, servile & oppressive, and at worst be utterly destructive. Whoever determines how far this right goes is determined by whom is in the position to enforce it, and thankfully in the majority of cases there is a consensus or at least a somewhat flexible fairness. This can be via a government, whom by definition hold a monopoly on enforcing violence over a certain place, a private club, a school, ones own home etc. which can have many overlapping points. Within the GAA, for historical and cultural reasons the use of the word "Londonderry" or even the milder "L/Derry" does not tend to be received well among its patrons, at the least, therefore all such units in that location & teams representing it are deemed "Derry" or "Doire". On the other hand, on Wikipedia all pages that concern units of the GAA in Derry, by rule, refer to their location as being in "County Londonderry" - this is due to Wikipedia's notability guidelines as well as a desire to be factually, historically & legally accurate where in this sense, the name of the county is determined by how it is legally described by its ruling central government (i.e. the UK government). In both examples, those decisions were reached upon an agreed consensus in their communities.

But if the answer to the first question is "yes", then should nobody say anything lest someone claims offence at what you say? This is a classic example of the "thin edge of the wedge" argument. The only reason "Londonderry" is offensive to someone like yourself is because you have been taught & conditioned since birth to take it as such - it is not naturally an offensive word and indeed on its own it was not created solely to express offence. Everything we take as offence has become so because like the example I've mentioned, we've learned to take it as such - nothing is "naturally" offensive, the closest are words or phrases that are created to be solely derogatory but even then this relies on both parties to share a common understanding when communicating e.g. spoken or written language, or certain body expressions. Still, they're all taught & learned from birth.

Now take this concept of being "offended" and broaden its scope. Much of the social progress that has evolved over decades and centuries not only in Ireland but all over the world has happened because some people were willing to cause offence. Dictators, tyrants, authoritarians etc. love to use the tool of being offended or outraged to silence criticism - most of the famed authoritarian national leaders on this planet as well as plenty of those looking to suck up to them are incredibly thin skinned. Xi Jinping notably does not like being compared to Whinnie The Pooh. Closer to home, comedy & satire has been a significant force in evoking change both politically and socially. While Dave Allen was cracking jokes about the Catholic Church and its hierarchy in Britain, he was essentially persona non grate for RTE. Spitting Image was doing that also, not to mention the likes of Brass Eye which courted a quare amount of controversy when it did its "Paedophile" special. Anyway, hopefully you understand the point.

So lets go back on to this forum. In the last few weeks there's been several occasions where a some posters have expressed "PC Gone MAAAAAAD!" yet when you look at the stories in question, they are either the suggestions from just one person, or a small team/group of no significance, or someone like PETA whom are just professional trolls at this point. Then mean next to nothing in the greater social context and will nearly always be quickly forgotten about - but one thing you can be ensured of is someone willing to blow shit out of all proportion, and we have it right here with several posters whom IMO are going out of their way to be offended having been triggered by someone saying or doing something that is "Pee Cee". They are ironically practicing Political Correctness themselves in essentially asserting their own right to freely comment and offend, but demand respect or civility from their opponents. They are looking to claim some sort of victimhood & recognition without trying to earn it or justify it, hence the use of soundbites rather than any reasoning. That is not to say that sometimes such voices actually have a valid point - after all, a stopped clock is right twice a day not to mention that attention seeking arseholes are littered across all positions of politics and society. But there is a tendency growing in this world about not having to justify your ignorance or bigotry, and cry foul when you are being challenged on it. I think it needs empahsising that if someone is challenging your view or opinion on something, they are not "oppressing" you. The world does not stand still for anyone's personal whims, prejudices or bigotry. Essentially, we are slowly retreating from reason.

So about those words "Londonderry" and "L/Derry", if you haven't grasped it by now, they were used as literary tools to bring the examples of censorship, offence and the practice of "chilling effects" into a presence that could be easily understood, or at least I hoped. I'm very happy to support the right of someone to express a viewpoint as part of a reasoned discussion even if I strongly disagree with them, as to me an exchange of ideas and experiences is a general benefit to all, or at least most. What I struggle to tolerate are those whom just moan & moan more than some artificially enhanced 28GG porn actress on set being DP'd for the fifth time that day. And yes, I recognise the irony of moaning about those that moan about anything that gives them an excuse to do so - I just really don't want to do so if I can help it, the same way that in the last few years I've (with a very brief exception) refused to talk about a certain gobshite mentioned in the subject line of this thread because IMO he just isn't worth it - I don't go and seek him out to get myself offended, and if he pops up in the media then I either mute the TV, change the channel, or just quickly turn the page etc. Just move on! And on that front, I'll leave it there. Rant/argument over.

I stopped reading when I saw the term windowlicker. Is it ok for me to take massive exception (or offence, if you will) to your use of that term or are you still trying to make a point?

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5512 on: February 07, 2020, 08:20:39 PM »
Ye can write as long a paragraphs as ye want lad but yer a tosser in my books and a few others on here id say when ye come out with the Londonderry thing.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5513 on: February 07, 2020, 08:40:17 PM »
I stopped reading when I saw the term windowlicker. Is it ok for me to take massive exception (or offence, if you will) to your use of that term or are you still trying to make a point?

Okay, the more "PC" friendly version...





I'm a little surprised at you screen, while I wouldn't expect any less from some of the **** in this thread to fail to grasp the point, you're usually smart & clued up enough that I would have thought you'd have understood that the point I was making wasn't solely about whatever name is used to label a certain place, and that alone.

So I'll expand upon this - does your right not to be offended trump my right to offend (either inadvertently or deliberately)? If the answer is no, then must my right to offend be absolute? And if the answer is yes, then should everyone have the right not to be offended?

For "no", I'd argue that my right to offend be absolute is not valid because such a POV is at best heavily authoritarian, servile & oppressive, and at worst be utterly destructive. Whoever determines how far this right goes is determined by whom is in the position to enforce it, and thankfully in the majority of cases there is a consensus or at least a somewhat flexible fairness. This can be via a government, whom by definition hold a monopoly on enforcing violence over a certain place, a private club, a school, ones own home etc. which can have many overlapping points. Within the GAA, for historical and cultural reasons the use of the word "Londonderry" or even the milder "L/Derry" does not tend to be received well among its patrons, at the least, therefore all such units in that location & teams representing it are deemed "Derry" or "Doire". On the other hand, on Wikipedia all pages that concern units of the GAA in Derry, by rule, refer to their location as being in "County Londonderry" - this is due to Wikipedia's notability guidelines as well as a desire to be factually, historically & legally accurate where in this sense, the name of the county is determined by how it is legally described by its ruling central government (i.e. the UK government). In both examples, those decisions were reached upon an agreed consensus in their communities.

But if the answer to the first question is "yes", then should nobody say anything lest someone claims offence at what you say? This is a classic example of the "thin edge of the wedge" argument. The only reason "Londonderry" is offensive to someone like yourself is because you have been taught & conditioned since birth to take it as such - it is not naturally an offensive word and indeed on its own it was not created solely to express offence. Everything we take as offence has become so because like the example I've mentioned, we've learned to take it as such - nothing is "naturally" offensive, the closest are words or phrases that are created to be solely derogatory but even then this relies on both parties to share a common understanding when communicating e.g. spoken or written language, or certain body expressions. Still, they're all taught & learned from birth.

Now take this concept of being "offended" and broaden its scope. Much of the social progress that has evolved over decades and centuries not only in Ireland but all over the world has happened because some people were willing to cause offence. Dictators, tyrants, authoritarians etc. love to use the tool of being offended or outraged to silence criticism - most of the famed authoritarian national leaders on this planet as well as plenty of those looking to suck up to them are incredibly thin skinned. Xi Jinping notably does not like being compared to Whinnie The Pooh. Closer to home, comedy & satire has been a significant force in evoking change both politically and socially. While Dave Allen was cracking jokes about the Catholic Church and its hierarchy in Britain, he was essentially persona non grate for RTE. Spitting Image was doing that also, not to mention the likes of Brass Eye which courted a quare amount of controversy when it did its "Paedophile" special. Anyway, hopefully you understand the point.

So lets go back on to this forum. In the last few weeks there's been several occasions where a some posters have expressed "PC Gone MAAAAAAD!" yet when you look at the stories in question, they are either the suggestions from just one person, or a small team/group of no significance, or someone like PETA whom are just professional trolls at this point. Then mean next to nothing in the greater social context and will nearly always be quickly forgotten about - but one thing you can be ensured of is someone willing to blow shit out of all proportion, and we have it right here with several posters whom IMO are going out of their way to be offended having been triggered by someone saying or doing something that is "Pee Cee". They are ironically practicing Political Correctness themselves in essentially asserting their own right to freely comment and offend, but demand respect or civility from their opponents. They are looking to claim some sort of victimhood & recognition without trying to earn it or justify it, hence the use of soundbites rather than any reasoning. That is not to say that sometimes such voices actually have a valid point - after all, a stopped clock is right twice a day not to mention that attention seeking arseholes are littered across all positions of politics and society. But there is a tendency growing in this world about not having to justify your ignorance or bigotry, and cry foul when you are being challenged on it. I think it needs empahsising that if someone is challenging your view or opinion on something, they are not "oppressing" you. The world does not stand still for anyone's personal whims, prejudices or bigotry. Essentially, we are slowly retreating from reason.

So about those words "Londonderry" and "L/Derry", if you haven't grasped it by now, they were used as literary tools to bring the examples of censorship, offence and the practice of "chilling effects" into a presence that could be easily understood, or at least I hoped. I'm very happy to support the right of someone to express a viewpoint as part of a reasoned discussion even if I strongly disagree with them, as to me an exchange of ideas and experiences is a general benefit to all, or at least most. What I struggle to tolerate are those whom just moan & moan more than some artificially enhanced 28GG porn actress on set being DP'd for the fifth time that day. And yes, I recognise the irony of moaning about those that moan about anything that gives them an excuse to do so - I just really don't want to do so if I can help it, the same way that in the last few years I've (with a very brief exception) refused to talk about a certain **** mentioned in the subject line of this thread because IMO he just isn't worth it - I don't go and seek him out to get myself offended, and if he pops up in the media then I either mute the TV, change the channel, or just quickly turn the page etc. Just move on! And on that front, I'll leave it there. Rant/argument over.

Ye can write as long a paragraphs as ye want lad but yer a tosser in my books and a few others on here id say when ye come out with the Londonderry thing.

Congratulations on outing yourself as being too thick to insult.
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quit yo jibbajabba

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5514 on: February 07, 2020, 10:17:20 PM »
Alright tosser! Sure ill write a few big long paragraphs next time if thats what make ye (you) classed as intelligent round here.

Any more londonderry stories the last one was a hoot

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5515 on: February 07, 2020, 10:39:41 PM »
Alright tosser! Sure ill write a few big long paragraphs next time if thats what make ye (you) classed as intelligent round here.

Any more londonderry stories the last one was a hoot

If what I wrote are "long paragraphs" then are you actually capable of reading any books beyond a Primary school level? A large word count isn't a sign of intelligence the same way as just a few words don't indicate a lack of it, but I am of a school of thought that believes that it is worth putting at least a little meat on the bones of what there is to talk about, and if it triggers you then it's not my problem. It's your's. Was this paragraph too long?

And no, I'm not in the business of satisfying your desire in wanting to get offended for the sake of it.  8)
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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5516 on: February 07, 2020, 10:47:21 PM »
Too short, didn’t read.


Fionntamhnach

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5517 on: February 07, 2020, 10:53:52 PM »
Signature is in quarantine...

Main Street

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5518 on: February 07, 2020, 11:30:05 PM »
The former Sinn Féin MLA Francie Brolly has died. He was in his early 80s.

The Indo printed a nice photo of them together at a Derry match, I suppose it helps to have a sense of humour when attending a Derry game.





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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5519 on: February 08, 2020, 12:31:06 AM »
Alright tosser! Sure ill write a few big long paragraphs next time if thats what make ye (you) classed as intelligent round here.

Any more londonderry stories the last one was a hoot

If what I wrote are "long paragraphs" then are you actually capable of reading any books beyond a Primary school level? A large word count isn't a sign of intelligence the same way as just a few words don't indicate a lack of it, but I am of a school of thought that believes that it is worth putting at least a little meat on the bones of what there is to talk about, and if it triggers you then it's not my problem. It's your's. Was this paragraph too long?

And no, I'm not in the business of satisfying your desire in wanting to get offended for the sake of it.  8)

Brevity. Is that a word in your big dictionary.
Capable of reading books. Primary school. No harm mate but yer (youre) coming across as a right condescending tosser now. But anyway, ill say no more