Author Topic: Joe Brolly  (Read 725040 times)

Angelo

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5385 on: January 17, 2020, 01:34:25 PM »
Hurling in Dublin is pretty strong. Yes it comes second but itís not bad. They have won Leinster and one year they wouldnít have been far off the best in Ireland.

The metrics were shallow pool and repetition. Dublin are way stronger but there are still limited teams capable of competing at the top level in football. Itís a shallow pool in both. It can get repetitive in both.

I would agree on the super 8s. The super 8s and the Munster hurling layout are both things I would not be in favour of.

Hurling in Dublin is pretty strong? About as strong as it is in Mayo or Tyrone in relative terms. It has about 14 times the population of these counties and has impacted as strongly on the hurling Championship as someone like Wexford would have on the football Championship.

I wouldn't agree with that at all, take Dublin out of the mix and I don't think there's a whole pile to choose from the top 10/12 counties, last year was quite competitive in the Super 8s Dublin aside.

Roscommon and Cork tested Tyrone.
Meath held their own for the majority of all their games.
Armagh nearly pipped Mayo.
Derry gave Tyrone a bit of a scare in Ulster.

What last year proved to us is Dublin are still way ahead of the rest but the third tier counties (eg Roscommon, Cork, Meath, Armagh etc) were able to close the gap on the second tier counties (Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal, Mayo etc).

johnnycool

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5386 on: January 17, 2020, 01:55:10 PM »
Angelo there are many far more competitive games in the hurling. Unlike the football we donít know up front who is going to win it. Also as Jc said the earlier games are more competitive. Football early on bar a game or two in Ulster is basically a dance in preparation for the big stuff.

The most obsessed with Micky Harte are two particular boys from Tyrone in the Tyrone thread. Itís actually pretty unhealthy and brings out a bit of nastiness.

Yes joe brolly is a bit of a gobshite but as usual you have went a bit far ;D

They might be competitive games but its proliferation, it's just repetition. Had the result in one of the hurling semi finals went the other way last year we would have had Tipp and Limerick meeting in Championship for the third time in 3 months or Kilkenny and Wexford meeting in Championship in 3 months. I don't find the game engaging, I think its flogged to death and the competition pool is shallow.


In the last 10 years there's been 5 different AI hurling champions. Include Cork and Waterford who've reached AI finals and hence have been competitive enough to get to the final.

There's 7 out of the 10 teams involved in the Liam McCarthy and whilst they can play each other in the round robin, Munster/Leinster finals and then semi-finals/finals it's actually a even enough split that the outcomes are different. E.G. Tipp beat Limerick in the RR but Limerick beat them in the Munster final..


In the last 10 years there's been 4 different AI football winners, and another three counties who've made it to the final, Down, Tyrone and Mayo. so being kind the competition pool is every bit as shallow in the football as hurling.

Allowing 30 odd teams to "compete" for the AI football final is just an illusion and leads to one sided hammerings which the viewing public have turned away from.

Us from counties involved with hurling further down the scale don't live in cloud cuckoo land like the footballers in the vast majority of counties.


Angelo

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5387 on: January 17, 2020, 02:11:17 PM »
Angelo there are many far more competitive games in the hurling. Unlike the football we donít know up front who is going to win it. Also as Jc said the earlier games are more competitive. Football early on bar a game or two in Ulster is basically a dance in preparation for the big stuff.

The most obsessed with Micky Harte are two particular boys from Tyrone in the Tyrone thread. Itís actually pretty unhealthy and brings out a bit of nastiness.

Yes joe brolly is a bit of a gobshite but as usual you have went a bit far ;D

They might be competitive games but its proliferation, it's just repetition. Had the result in one of the hurling semi finals went the other way last year we would have had Tipp and Limerick meeting in Championship for the third time in 3 months or Kilkenny and Wexford meeting in Championship in 3 months. I don't find the game engaging, I think its flogged to death and the competition pool is shallow.


In the last 10 years there's been 5 different AI hurling champions. Include Cork and Waterford who've reached AI finals and hence have been competitive enough to get to the final.

There's 7 out of the 10 teams involved in the Liam McCarthy and whilst they can play each other in the round robin, Munster/Leinster finals and then semi-finals/finals it's actually a even enough split that the outcomes are different. E.G. Tipp beat Limerick in the RR but Limerick beat them in the Munster final..


In the last 10 years there's been 4 different AI football winners, and another three counties who've made it to the final, Down, Tyrone and Mayo. so being kind the competition pool is every bit as shallow in the football as hurling.

Allowing 30 odd teams to "compete" for the AI football final is just an illusion and leads to one sided hammerings which the viewing public have turned away from.

Us from counties involved with hurling further down the scale don't live in cloud cuckoo land like the footballers in the vast majority of counties.

The difference is the GAA created a monster in Dublin GAA that no other county can match it in football. Prior to this you had counties like Wexford and Fermanagh in All Ireland semi finals. You had counties like Sligo well able to put it up to any team in the country, you had Laois and Westmeath clinching provincial glory.

The GAA has created a monster in Dublin GAA, if there was a hurling county with a 1.5m population and it was bankrolled by the GAA you'd have more severe issues in hurling than football.

I look at football now, I don't see it any less healthy in Ulster and Connacht. Munster is a joke like it has always been, it's a hurling province with one football county and it's always been a procession for Kerry, always.

Leinster football is where the real damage has occurred. The growth of Dublin has killed off the other counties.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:15:03 PM by Angelo »

bannside

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5388 on: January 17, 2020, 02:39:56 PM »
Aye always a procession for Kerry in Munster, as in like, always.

Except the five times in the last 18 years its been won by Cork, and over 30 times in total. No procession in those years and it wont be next year either!

johnnycool

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5389 on: January 17, 2020, 02:45:32 PM »
Angelo there are many far more competitive games in the hurling. Unlike the football we donít know up front who is going to win it. Also as Jc said the earlier games are more competitive. Football early on bar a game or two in Ulster is basically a dance in preparation for the big stuff.

The most obsessed with Micky Harte are two particular boys from Tyrone in the Tyrone thread. Itís actually pretty unhealthy and brings out a bit of nastiness.

Yes joe brolly is a bit of a gobshite but as usual you have went a bit far ;D

They might be competitive games but its proliferation, it's just repetition. Had the result in one of the hurling semi finals went the other way last year we would have had Tipp and Limerick meeting in Championship for the third time in 3 months or Kilkenny and Wexford meeting in Championship in 3 months. I don't find the game engaging, I think its flogged to death and the competition pool is shallow.


In the last 10 years there's been 5 different AI hurling champions. Include Cork and Waterford who've reached AI finals and hence have been competitive enough to get to the final.

There's 7 out of the 10 teams involved in the Liam McCarthy and whilst they can play each other in the round robin, Munster/Leinster finals and then semi-finals/finals it's actually a even enough split that the outcomes are different. E.G. Tipp beat Limerick in the RR but Limerick beat them in the Munster final..


In the last 10 years there's been 4 different AI football winners, and another three counties who've made it to the final, Down, Tyrone and Mayo. so being kind the competition pool is every bit as shallow in the football as hurling.

Allowing 30 odd teams to "compete" for the AI football final is just an illusion and leads to one sided hammerings which the viewing public have turned away from.

Us from counties involved with hurling further down the scale don't live in cloud cuckoo land like the footballers in the vast majority of counties.

The difference is the GAA created a monster in Dublin GAA that no other county can match it in football. Prior to this you had counties like Wexford and Fermanagh in All Ireland semi finals. You had counties like Sligo well able to put it up to any team in the country, you had Laois and Westmeath clinching provincial glory.

The GAA has created a monster in Dublin GAA, if there was a hurling county with a 1.5m population and it was bankrolled by the GAA you'd have more severe issues in hurling than football.

I look at football now, I don't see it any less healthy in Ulster and Connacht. Munster is a joke like it has always been, it's a hurling province with one football county and it's always been a procession for Kerry, always.

Leinster football is where the real damage has occurred. The growth of Dublin has killed off the other counties.

That's hardly hurlings fault.

Angelo

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5390 on: January 17, 2020, 02:46:39 PM »
Aye always a procession for Kerry in Munster, as in like, always.

Except the five times in the last 18 years its been won by Cork, and over 30 times in total. No procession in those years and it wont be next year either!

No county has won provincial titles more than Kerry have won Munster. They have 81 provincial titles, that's more than the combined amount of the other 5 Munster counties who stand at 50 as a cumulative total.

Clare in 1992 are the only county to have a Munster football championship outside of Kerry and Cork in the past 85 years.

If the Munster football has not been a procession historically then you must not know the meaning of the word.

Angelo

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5391 on: January 17, 2020, 02:52:07 PM »
Angelo there are many far more competitive games in the hurling. Unlike the football we donít know up front who is going to win it. Also as Jc said the earlier games are more competitive. Football early on bar a game or two in Ulster is basically a dance in preparation for the big stuff.

The most obsessed with Micky Harte are two particular boys from Tyrone in the Tyrone thread. Itís actually pretty unhealthy and brings out a bit of nastiness.

Yes joe brolly is a bit of a gobshite but as usual you have went a bit far ;D

They might be competitive games but its proliferation, it's just repetition. Had the result in one of the hurling semi finals went the other way last year we would have had Tipp and Limerick meeting in Championship for the third time in 3 months or Kilkenny and Wexford meeting in Championship in 3 months. I don't find the game engaging, I think its flogged to death and the competition pool is shallow.


In the last 10 years there's been 5 different AI hurling champions. Include Cork and Waterford who've reached AI finals and hence have been competitive enough to get to the final.

There's 7 out of the 10 teams involved in the Liam McCarthy and whilst they can play each other in the round robin, Munster/Leinster finals and then semi-finals/finals it's actually a even enough split that the outcomes are different. E.G. Tipp beat Limerick in the RR but Limerick beat them in the Munster final..


In the last 10 years there's been 4 different AI football winners, and another three counties who've made it to the final, Down, Tyrone and Mayo. so being kind the competition pool is every bit as shallow in the football as hurling.

Allowing 30 odd teams to "compete" for the AI football final is just an illusion and leads to one sided hammerings which the viewing public have turned away from.

Us from counties involved with hurling further down the scale don't live in cloud cuckoo land like the footballers in the vast majority of counties.

The difference is the GAA created a monster in Dublin GAA that no other county can match it in football. Prior to this you had counties like Wexford and Fermanagh in All Ireland semi finals. You had counties like Sligo well able to put it up to any team in the country, you had Laois and Westmeath clinching provincial glory.

The GAA has created a monster in Dublin GAA, if there was a hurling county with a 1.5m population and it was bankrolled by the GAA you'd have more severe issues in hurling than football.

I look at football now, I don't see it any less healthy in Ulster and Connacht. Munster is a joke like it has always been, it's a hurling province with one football county and it's always been a procession for Kerry, always.

Leinster football is where the real damage has occurred. The growth of Dublin has killed off the other counties.

That's hardly hurlings fault.

Hurling's problem is its limited popularity in terms of playing numbers.

Luckily for them there is agenda by the free state's national broadcaster and the media to shove it down people's throats, just like rugby. I don't really care for it, I don't find incredibly exciting or skillful.

The issue for football is the GAA's handling of Dublin GAA, how they let it get out of hand and how little that has been done to tackle it.

As a population base, it is far, far too big. Splitting it into three teams is the only solution, changing the rules with black cards, sin bins, marks, advanced marks, kicking tees, limiting hand passes, two referees, reducing to 13 a side won't change a thing and only damages the game itself.

They need to tackle the inequality of the Championship - namely Dublin and the rest.

johnnycool

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5392 on: January 17, 2020, 02:54:15 PM »
Angelo there are many far more competitive games in the hurling. Unlike the football we donít know up front who is going to win it. Also as Jc said the earlier games are more competitive. Football early on bar a game or two in Ulster is basically a dance in preparation for the big stuff.

The most obsessed with Micky Harte are two particular boys from Tyrone in the Tyrone thread. Itís actually pretty unhealthy and brings out a bit of nastiness.

Yes joe brolly is a bit of a gobshite but as usual you have went a bit far ;D

They might be competitive games but its proliferation, it's just repetition. Had the result in one of the hurling semi finals went the other way last year we would have had Tipp and Limerick meeting in Championship for the third time in 3 months or Kilkenny and Wexford meeting in Championship in 3 months. I don't find the game engaging, I think its flogged to death and the competition pool is shallow.


In the last 10 years there's been 5 different AI hurling champions. Include Cork and Waterford who've reached AI finals and hence have been competitive enough to get to the final.

There's 7 out of the 10 teams involved in the Liam McCarthy and whilst they can play each other in the round robin, Munster/Leinster finals and then semi-finals/finals it's actually a even enough split that the outcomes are different. E.G. Tipp beat Limerick in the RR but Limerick beat them in the Munster final..


In the last 10 years there's been 4 different AI football winners, and another three counties who've made it to the final, Down, Tyrone and Mayo. so being kind the competition pool is every bit as shallow in the football as hurling.

Allowing 30 odd teams to "compete" for the AI football final is just an illusion and leads to one sided hammerings which the viewing public have turned away from.

Us from counties involved with hurling further down the scale don't live in cloud cuckoo land like the footballers in the vast majority of counties.

The difference is the GAA created a monster in Dublin GAA that no other county can match it in football. Prior to this you had counties like Wexford and Fermanagh in All Ireland semi finals. You had counties like Sligo well able to put it up to any team in the country, you had Laois and Westmeath clinching provincial glory.

The GAA has created a monster in Dublin GAA, if there was a hurling county with a 1.5m population and it was bankrolled by the GAA you'd have more severe issues in hurling than football.

I look at football now, I don't see it any less healthy in Ulster and Connacht. Munster is a joke like it has always been, it's a hurling province with one football county and it's always been a procession for Kerry, always.

Leinster football is where the real damage has occurred. The growth of Dublin has killed off the other counties.

That's hardly hurlings fault.

Hurling's problem is its limited popularity in terms of playing numbers.

Luckily for them there is agenda by the free state's national broadcaster and the media to shove it down people's throats, just like rugby. I don't really care for it, I don't find incredibly exciting or skillful.

The issue for football is the GAA's handling of Dublin GAA, how they let it get out of hand and how little that has been done to tackle it.

As a population base, it is far, far too big. Splitting it into three teams is the only solution, changing the rules with black cards, sin bins, marks, advanced marks, kicking tees, limiting hand passes, two referees, reducing to 13 a side won't change a thing and only damages the game itself.

They need to tackle the inequality of the Championship - namely Dublin and the rest.

Ah here now, away and behave yourself.

Angelo

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5393 on: January 17, 2020, 02:56:31 PM »
Angelo there are many far more competitive games in the hurling. Unlike the football we donít know up front who is going to win it. Also as Jc said the earlier games are more competitive. Football early on bar a game or two in Ulster is basically a dance in preparation for the big stuff.

The most obsessed with Micky Harte are two particular boys from Tyrone in the Tyrone thread. Itís actually pretty unhealthy and brings out a bit of nastiness.

Yes joe brolly is a bit of a gobshite but as usual you have went a bit far ;D

They might be competitive games but its proliferation, it's just repetition. Had the result in one of the hurling semi finals went the other way last year we would have had Tipp and Limerick meeting in Championship for the third time in 3 months or Kilkenny and Wexford meeting in Championship in 3 months. I don't find the game engaging, I think its flogged to death and the competition pool is shallow.


In the last 10 years there's been 5 different AI hurling champions. Include Cork and Waterford who've reached AI finals and hence have been competitive enough to get to the final.

There's 7 out of the 10 teams involved in the Liam McCarthy and whilst they can play each other in the round robin, Munster/Leinster finals and then semi-finals/finals it's actually a even enough split that the outcomes are different. E.G. Tipp beat Limerick in the RR but Limerick beat them in the Munster final..


In the last 10 years there's been 4 different AI football winners, and another three counties who've made it to the final, Down, Tyrone and Mayo. so being kind the competition pool is every bit as shallow in the football as hurling.

Allowing 30 odd teams to "compete" for the AI football final is just an illusion and leads to one sided hammerings which the viewing public have turned away from.

Us from counties involved with hurling further down the scale don't live in cloud cuckoo land like the footballers in the vast majority of counties.

The difference is the GAA created a monster in Dublin GAA that no other county can match it in football. Prior to this you had counties like Wexford and Fermanagh in All Ireland semi finals. You had counties like Sligo well able to put it up to any team in the country, you had Laois and Westmeath clinching provincial glory.

The GAA has created a monster in Dublin GAA, if there was a hurling county with a 1.5m population and it was bankrolled by the GAA you'd have more severe issues in hurling than football.

I look at football now, I don't see it any less healthy in Ulster and Connacht. Munster is a joke like it has always been, it's a hurling province with one football county and it's always been a procession for Kerry, always.

Leinster football is where the real damage has occurred. The growth of Dublin has killed off the other counties.

That's hardly hurlings fault.

Hurling's problem is its limited popularity in terms of playing numbers.

Luckily for them there is agenda by the free state's national broadcaster and the media to shove it down people's throats, just like rugby. I don't really care for it, I don't find incredibly exciting or skillful.

The issue for football is the GAA's handling of Dublin GAA, how they let it get out of hand and how little that has been done to tackle it.

As a population base, it is far, far too big. Splitting it into three teams is the only solution, changing the rules with black cards, sin bins, marks, advanced marks, kicking tees, limiting hand passes, two referees, reducing to 13 a side won't change a thing and only damages the game itself.

They need to tackle the inequality of the Championship - namely Dublin and the rest.

Ah here now, away and behave yourself.

If you don't like the facts then so be it.

Eire90

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5394 on: January 17, 2020, 03:37:03 PM »
The best system would be a straight 32 team knockout that gives smaller counties a chance via luck of the draw.Alternatively  you can have a 2nd chance system so teams are guaranteed two games the 16 losers play each other the losers are eliminated.The winners from 1 play each other then the losers from the winners group then play the winners from the round 1 losers the 8 winners from that join the 8 winners in the last 16 then we play on from there.

imtommygunn

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5395 on: January 17, 2020, 03:55:30 PM »
Angelo a fact seems to mean something different to you than it does to anyone else ;D

Bs Munster will likely be a procession next year too. As will Leinster. Ulster likely between tyrone Donegal barring a big surprise and if mayo / Galway are prepped theyíll win Connacht but it always looks like they prep for later in the year.

There is more than one issue with football. Super 8s are an issue. Professionalism levels. Drop off rates in most counties. How to combat the defensive dirge we are seeing too much these days. Mercenary coaches. The list goes on.

Angelo

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5396 on: January 17, 2020, 04:06:03 PM »
Angelo a fact seems to mean something different to you than it does to anyone else ;D

Bs Munster will likely be a procession next year too. As will Leinster. Ulster likely between tyrone Donegal barring a big surprise and if mayo / Galway are prepped theyíll win Connacht but it always looks like they prep for later in the year.

There is more than one issue with football. Super 8s are an issue. Professionalism levels. Drop off rates in most counties. How to combat the defensive dirge we are seeing too much these days. Mercenary coaches. The list goes on.

Nope, Munster has always been a procession (the facts verify that), there is nothing new there. Kerry were parachuted into the last 8 or 4 before that most years.

Leinster has turned into a joke because Dublin just batter anyone that crosses their path.

Connacht is competitive as it generally has been, Sligo have fallen back badly in the past decade but other than that it's generally competitive.

Ulster is still competitive. The likes of Derry, Armagh and Down are improving incrementally from a few years back.

The biggest issue is competitiveness, I can see why it's hard to justify the commitment unless you play for the top 4/5 counties. I'd imagine most Div 2 counties and some Div 3 counties will feel they could topple a Mayo/Kerry/Tyrone/Donegal on a given day but know all that awaits for them against Dublin is a merciless hammering. That's the biggest issue facing players today.

A lot of young lads will be working jobs and spending 10-15 hours of their lives in a gym on top of that, purely out of their own interests. Middle aged men will be working demanding jobs and then spending 10 hours at the weekend cycling around roads. Other chaps will want to do different things with their lives.

The main issue is players can't aim big when there is such a imbalance in the competing teams and that erodes the output for their input.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 04:08:11 PM by Angelo »

Blowitupref

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5397 on: January 17, 2020, 04:15:55 PM »
Angelo a fact seems to mean something different to you than it does to anyone else ;D

Bs Munster will likely be a procession next year too. As will Leinster. Ulster likely between tyrone Donegal barring a big surprise and if mayo / Galway are prepped theyíll win Connacht but it always looks like they prep for later in the year.

There is more than one issue with football. Super 8s are an issue. Professionalism levels. Drop off rates in most counties. How to combat the defensive dirge we are seeing too much these days. Mercenary coaches. The list goes on.

Just a tad disrespectful to Roscommon who have won 2 of the last 3 Connacht titles.
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imtommygunn

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5398 on: January 17, 2020, 05:30:16 PM »
I donít mean to be but when it comes to the business end only Galway and mayo are ever there.though youíre right probably a bit harsh.

Down, Derry and Armagh may be improving Angelo but Tyrone are miles ahead of them and so are Donegal. Monaghan can challenge Tyrone but seem more likely to be caught by other teams.

Basically Leinster is Dublin, Ulster is Tyrone, Donegal or monaghan(who I suspect will drop off), Connacht is Galway/ mayo / Roscommon and Munster is Kerry with an outside chance cork will come good.  The ai is Dublin. (Of those teams Monaghan, Roscommon and cork tend to drop off later in the year and really Donegal do a bit too. Add to that jury still out on Galway.)

That leaves one winner and really about three competitive teams.

To be honest it has become like the hurling - when you are off the pace you are really off the pace and

Blowitupref

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #5399 on: January 17, 2020, 05:36:34 PM »
I don’t mean to be but when it comes to the business end only Galway and mayo are ever there.though you’re right probably a bit harsh.

Down, Derry and Armagh may be improving Angelo but Tyrone are miles ahead of them and so are Donegal. Monaghan can challenge Tyrone but seem more likely to be caught by other teams.

Basically Leinster is Dublin, Ulster is Tyrone, Donegal or monaghan(who I suspect will drop off), Connacht is Galway/ mayo / Roscommon and Munster is Kerry with an outside chance cork will come good.  The ai is Dublin. (Of those teams Monaghan, Roscommon and cork tend to drop off later in the year and really Donegal do a bit too. Add to that jury still out on Galway.)

That leaves one winner and really about three competitive teams.

To be honest it has become like the hurling - when you are off the pace you are really off the pace and

Galway reached their first AI semi final in 2018 for 17 years, "always prepped for later in year"?

Last two summers Mayo didn't look that well prepped for the latter stages of the championship.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose