All-Ireland and Provincial Championships. Is it time for new formats for both?

[nrico2006]

I have to say I despise the current system and would prefer a return to straight knock out over it ( not that it's ideal either) but I'd imagine it won't change in the foreseeable future.  That said I liked Mickey Hartes idea a few years back of the provincial winners playing each other in the quarter finals with the losers dropping into the qualifiers and the winners meeting each other in the semis where the process would repeat. It would have the effect of making the qualifiers a much longer route than the direct route and would ensure at least one front door team in the AI final.

Last year 6 teams were beaten only once in the championship. Of those 6 teams 5 didnt even make the AI semi finals. For me that devalues not only the provinicial titles but the AI as a whole.  Under Hartes idea, the only game you could lose and not get a second bite at the cherry in is the AI final.

Spot on.  I think its time this change was made.  Every team gets a second chance then and aren't punished for winning their province.

[Rossfan]

For the umpeenth time ... Micky Harte's (and Breheny's) daft idea was blown out of the water at Congress 2010 and there is little or no interest in it.
Micky seemed to be using it to divert attention away from the fact that he hadnt freshened up his own team last year ( took Donegal to make him do it this year... possibly to our cost next Sat) .
Havent heard him complain to much about the current system this year 
The Provincial Championships are separate competitions from the All Ireland ... only relationship between the 2 is that the Round you enter the All Ireland Championship is determined by how you do in the Provincial. 

[Hound]

I have to say I despise the current system and would prefer a return to straight knock out over it ( not that it's ideal either) but I'd imagine it won't change in the foreseeable future.  That said I liked Mickey Hartes idea a few years back of the provincial winners playing each other in the quarter finals with the losers dropping into the qualifiers and the winners meeting each other in the semis where the process would repeat. It would have the effect of making the qualifiers a much longer route than the direct route and would ensure at least one front door team in the AI final.

Last year 6 teams were beaten only once in the championship. Of those 6 teams 5 didnt even make the AI semi finals. For me that devalues not only the provinicial titles but the AI as a whole.  Under Hartes idea, the only game you could lose and not get a second bite at the cherry in is the AI final.

Spot on.  I think its time this change was made.  Every team gets a second chance then and aren't punished for winning their province.

This is the bull that gets on my wick.

Every team gets ONE CHANCE to win their province. After they finish with their provincial championship, every team gets ONE CHANCE to win the All Ireland. Its amazing how many people can't get this simple concept. Its absolutely fair.

The one anomaly I'm not all that keen on under the GAA system (that has always been there) is the different number of counties in each province. But the majority want to keep a provincial system, in which case I believe the current system is a very good one and a very fair one.

Its just moaners and complainers love to blame the system rather than their own inepitude when their team exits the championship.

[David McKeown]

I have to say I despise the current system and would prefer a return to straight knock out over it ( not that it's ideal either) but I'd imagine it won't change in the foreseeable future.  That said I liked Mickey Hartes idea a few years back of the provincial winners playing each other in the quarter finals with the losers dropping into the qualifiers and the winners meeting each other in the semis where the process would repeat. It would have the effect of making the qualifiers a much longer route than the direct route and would ensure at least one front door team in the AI final.

Last year 6 teams were beaten only once in the championship. Of those 6 teams 5 didnt even make the AI semi finals. For me that devalues not only the provinicial titles but the AI as a whole.  Under Hartes idea, the only game you could lose and not get a second bite at the cherry in is the AI final.

Spot on.  I think its time this change was made.  Every team gets a second chance then and aren't punished for winning their province.

This is the bull that gets on my wick.

Every team gets ONE CHANCE to win their province. After they finish with their provincial championship, every team gets ONE CHANCE to win the All Ireland. Its amazing how many people can't get this simple concept. Its absolutely fair.

The one anomaly I'm not all that keen on under the GAA system (that has always been there) is the different number of counties in each province. But the majority want to keep a provincial system, in which case I believe the current system is a very good one and a very fair one.

Its just moaners and complainers love to blame the system rather than their own inepitude when their team exits the championship.

Rubbish that the current system is fair. Off the top of my head at least four things make it unfair.

1.  Teams enter it at completely different rounds. Win the preliminary round in Ulster then the quarter final and then lose the semi final and you enter the qualifiers at round 2. Lose your first match in Munster and you can be in the same round.

2. Beaten provincial finalists can sometimes have as little as 6 days to recover from a loss when it suits the GAA for TV reasons. Whilst others can have up to 4 weeks to get over that defeat.

3. Provincial winners can have up to 6 weeks off and can face a team coming off a run of only 2 games in 2 weeks.  Hardly fair to expect teams to be at peak condition in such a scenario.

4. When it suits the GAA they change the rules as to who can meet who. Like this year changing the rule that Mayo couldn't draw the winners of Tyrone/Roscommon therefore increasing  Mayo's chances of drawing Kildare, Cork or Limerick rather than waiting to the result of Tyrone v Roscommon was known.

The idea that the provincial competitions are different to the AI is crap, if you want it that way then run off the provincial competitions and then put all 32/33 teams in a hat and draw them out. Teams are being punished for doing well in devalued provincial competitions and it is not a fair system.

The other thing that annoys me is this fantasy land that people live in about how the provincial competitions are still as important as ever they were because some counties get great joy from winning them. That's horse crap. A lot of counties no longer give a monkeys about them so you are in essence now competiting in a competition that not every who has entered wants to win. The win is therefore by definition devalued IMO. Moreover the bite is gone from a lot of provincial championship games. I've lost count of the number of times I have walked out of Armagh games in Ulster and it no longer annoys me that we lost. 11 years ago it used to drive me crazy. Likewise I don't care if we lift Ulster because I know that not every team in Ulster was going balls out to win it.

The system has to change and whilst Mickeys idea isn't perfect it's better than anything else I have heard yet.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The current system penalises provincial winners: Simple fact.

The reason Mickey Harte isn't saying anything about it at the minute (or at least no one is printing anything he's saying about it at the minute) is because... his team aren't Provincial Champs! D'oh!

[Rossfan]

Re David McKeown's point 4 - will you cop on please.
It's been the rule for a few years that Provincial Finalists can't meet in the Quarters. If they waited for the Ros/Tyrone game before making the draw then  ALL the Quaret finals would have to be postponed and out the window goes the fixtures calendar drawn up last Winter.
As for different amount of Counties in each Province .. .you can blame the Brits for that ... they divided Ireland into Counties

[Rossfan]

The current system penalises provincial winners: Simple fact.

The reason Mickey Harte isn't saying anything about it at the minute (or at least no one is printing anything he's saying about it at the minute) is because... his team aren't Provincial Champs! D'oh!

Getting into the All Ireland Quarter final is being penalised  I'd expect better from you Fear.
So Micky is just another oul GAA hypocrite then DOH !!

[David McKeown]

Re David McKeown's point 4 - will you cop on please.
It's been the rule for a few years that Provincial Finalists can't meet in the Quarters. If they waited for the Ros/Tyrone game before making the draw then  ALL the Quaret finals would have to be postponed and out the window goes the fixtures calendar drawn up last Winter.
As for different amount of Counties in each Province .. .you can blame the Brits for that ... they divided Ireland into Counties

In all fairness let the quarter finals be moved. If the GAA draws up a calendar that doesn't allow for a draw in games in round 2 of the qualifiers then it deserved to be thrown slightly out if whack. Dublin have ended up being the ones penalised. Longer to wait for their quarterfinal and a shorter wait for any potential semi final.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Getting into the All Ireland Quarter final is being penalised  I'd expect better from you Fear.
So Micky is just another oul GAA hypocrite then DOH !!

Of the approximately 34 teams that participate in the Championship, the only 4 teams not to have a second chance are the 4 provincial winners, the ONLY 4!

And Mickey's opinion hasn't changed, not by one iota, just the reporting of it has.

Something of an unsuccessful spin there Rossfan, on BOTH counts! 

[Donnellys Hollow]

One chance to win your provincial championship. One chance to win the All-Ireland.

People will say that provincial champions are disadvantaged in a lot of cases by an extended break but the teams that some through the qualifiers will be more susceptible to injuries and fatigue. Giving provincial champions home advantage in the quarters is something that should be looked into (or at least giving them the option of nominating a venue if their home ground isn't suitable) but the idea championed by Harte is a non-runner.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

One chance to win the All-Ireland.

...If, and only IF, you win your provincial championship.

Ergo, penalised for being a winner. No coincidence that AI winners recently are qualifiers. *

* Edit: the last 3 AI winners have come from the Qualifiers, and 5 out of the last 6.

[stiffler]

Scrap the current league system.

Play the provincials off on a league basis.

Have a champions league format to the championship.

8 groups of 4 teams. (may need a playoff between kilkenny/london to qualify). 3 games, 1 home, 1 away and 1 neutral.

Top 2 go through to last 16 then straight knock out.

3rd place teams play off for a tommy murphy style competition.

sorted.

[Frank Casey]

As for different amount of Counties in each Province .. .you can blame the Brits for that ... they divided Ireland into Counties

Why don't we go back before this and revive the ancient provincal structure. As province, as Gaeilge, is cuige, we should remember that this means one fifth - there were five old provinces - Meath being the extra one comprising of modern Meath and Westmeath. Men of Leinster cut them off. Lets have fifth finals.

Its probably no wilder than reviving Oriel or Breffni

[muppet]

Spot on.  I think its time this change was made.  Every team gets a second chance then and aren't punished for winning their province.

This is the bull that gets on my wick.

Every team gets ONE CHANCE to win their province. After they finish with their provincial championship, every team gets ONE CHANCE to win the All Ireland. Its amazing how many people can't get this simple concept. Its absolutely fair.

The one anomaly I'm not all that keen on under the GAA system (that has always been there) is the different number of counties in each province. But the majority want to keep a provincial system, in which case I believe the current system is a very good one and a very fair one.

Its just moaners and complainers love to blame the system rather than their own inepitude when their team exits the championship.
[/quote]

That is one interpretation.

It is absolutely true to say that some teams get two chances to lose in the All Ireland series, while others get one. It is also true to say that all teams get only one chance to lose in their provincial championship.

I am not particularly bothered either way but it is twisting things dramatically to try to suggest that every team only gets one chance to win the All-Ireland Championship by adding after they finish with their provincial Championships as if it is an unconnected competition.

[Rossfan]

Getting into the All Ireland Quarter final is being penalised  I'd expect better from you Fear.
So Micky is just another oul GAA hypocrite then DOH !!

Of the approximately 34 teams that participate in the Championship, the only 4 teams not to have a second chance are the 4 provincial winners, the ONLY 4!

And Mickey's opinion hasn't changed, not by one iota, just the reporting of it has.

Something of an unsuccessful spin there Rossfan, on BOTH counts! 

He is quoted in this week's Ros Herald saying the All Ireland Quarter Final is where you want to be. He doesnt mind whether his team qualifies by the Provincial or the Qualifier route.
Spin that buckeen .
Nobody gets a second chance... if you're knocked out of the All Ireland Championship you're OU bloody T.