Hardcore Puke Football

[Mike Sheehy]

Neither Kerry nor Dublin of Spillane's era would have a chance against the top 10 teams of our times- no matter what Auntie Pat may say.

The usual tired cliche that is trotted out. All things being equal (i.e training intensity etc) I am confident both the Kerry and Dublin team of that era wouid beat any modern team out the gate.

[Lar Naparka]

Neither Kerry nor Dublin of Spillane's era would have a chance against the top 10 teams of our times- no matter what Auntie Pat may say.

The usual tired cliche that is trotted out. All things being equal (i.e training intensity etc) I am confident both the Kerry and Dublin team of that era wouid beat any modern team out the gate.

Now, now, Mike, let's stay with the facts.
All things being equal, my auntie would be my uncle if only she had different genitalia, wouldn't she?
But she hadn't so she wasn't and there ain't much point in conjecturing what she might have been if she had. (There: is that logical analysis or is it not?)
Same with the Dublin and Kerry teams of the 70s.
You are evading the point when you go on about all things being equal.
I'm dealing in facts as I see them to be—not in what might have been.
Of course if Kerry and Dublin of the 70s were around today and if they had the 'ie training intensity etc' they probably 'wouid beat any modern team out the gate.'
But that's not ever going to happen, is it?
You can stick with what might have been and I will stick to the facts.

[Mike Sheehy]

hold on a minute here lad...you were the one who was making the comparison between teams from different eras so spare me the "if my auntie had balls lark..".   TBH I dont think its really possible to make such a comparison but since you insist on making it then lets go with it and see where it takes us.

So what are the "facts", exactly, that you are considering when you say that those teams would "not have a chance" against the top 10 teams of today ?

are you saying that for each player on the Kerry or Dublin team of that era , if you were to compare them against their conterparts on , say, the Kildare or Down teams that they are worse footballers ? (I am assuming these would be considered top 10 teams)

[Naomh Pol CLG]

hold on a minute here lad...you were the one who was making the comparison between teams from different eras so spare me the "if my auntie had balls lark..".   TBH I dont think its really possible to make such a comparison but since you insist on making it then lets go with it and see where it takes us.

So what are the "facts", exactly, that you are considering when you say that those teams would "not have a chance" against the top 10 teams of today ?

are you saying that for each player on the Kerry or Dublin team of that era , if you were to compare them against their conterparts on , say, the Kildare or Down teams that they are worse footballers ? (I am assuming these would be considered top 10 teams)

Hey...Leave us out of this, we are the aristocrats!   Our defence has never been, or will ever be a blanket.  It is far too porous to be put in that bracket!!!!!

[AZOffaly]

These debates about the 'team of the 70s would be hammered/would hammer the team of the 10's' are pointless, but good craic.

I'm sure if a timemachine was invented, and the poor bewildered Kerry men were lifted en masse and dropped into Croke Park to face Kerry 2011, Dublin 2011 or Down 2011, they'd be blown away by the fitness and pace of the game.

But that's an unfair premise. I think if the same timemachine dropped the equally bewildered Kerry 2011 back into 1978, they'd be blown away by the physical nature of the games.

The only way this could be even a logical debate is if you compare the skills of the players from both those eras, and then apply the tangential factors like preparation, tactics etc as a flat factor across both teams. Then it becomes an interesting topic, and I think that while the outcomes can be debated, the good teams today would not be blown away by the good teams of the 70s, or 60s, 50s or whenever, but neither would the players of those eras be out of their depth if exposed to the same routines today.

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh.

[omagh_gael]

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh

I wonder would Seamus Darby's dunt on his Kerry marker (can't remember who it was) have been enough to put of Francie Bellew in his pomp?

[Lar Naparka]

hold on a minute here lad...you were the one who was making the comparison between teams from different eras so spare me the "if my auntie had balls lark..".   TBH I dont think its really possible to make such a comparison but since you insist on making it then lets go with it and see where it takes us.

So what are the "facts", exactly, that you are considering when you say that those teams would "not have a chance" against the top 10 teams of today ?

are you saying that for each player on the Kerry or Dublin team of that era , if you were to compare them against their conterparts on , say, the Kildare or Down teams that they are worse footballers ? (I am assuming these would be considered top 10 teams)

Whoa there, Horse. Back up a bit.
One of us wrote:
"All things being equal (i.e training intensity etc) I am confident both the Kerry and Dublin team of that era wouid beat any modern team out the gate."
[Hint: It wasn't me, Michael.]

However, one of us also wrote:
"By the standards of today at least 5 of the Dublin backs could expect yellow cards at the very least and yet Micheal O'Hehir or any of the Kerry forwards didn't seem to find anything to get upset over.
That's because Kerry could dish out the same sort of treatment to their opponents and all concerned took what happened to Mickey Ned as par for the course. "
[Hint: It wasn't you, Michael.]

Why bother asking me the following when it's obvious that the answer is no.
"are you saying that for each player on the Kerry or Dublin team of that era , if you were to compare them against their conterparts on , say, the Kildare or Down teams that they are worse footballers ? (I am assuming these would be considered top 10 teams)"
I did write: "The Dublin and Kerry teams of his era were ...... probably more gifted than most teams before or since but a modern referee would have the majority of them red-carded before half time!"

So, what's your problem?
However my main point here was, and still is, that "a modern referee would have the majority of them red-carded before half time!"

Furthermore, I cited the Mickey Ned incident to back up my assertion.
G'wan, take another look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9VY7BKKCw

I repeat: "You can stick with what might have been and I will stick to the facts."

[AZOffaly]

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh

I wonder would Seamus Darby's dunt on his Kerry marker (can't remember who it was) have been enough to put of Francie Bellew in his pomp?

Course it would. That was all about Tommy Walsh being off balance and out of position. (And Seamus just standing his ground )

[heffo]

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh

I wonder would Seamus Darby's dunt on his Kerry marker (can't remember who it was) have been enough to put of Francie Bellew in his pomp?

Course it would. That was all about Tommy Walsh being off balance and out of position. (And Seamus just standing his ground )

Doyle no?

[AZOffaly]

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh

I wonder would Seamus Darby's dunt on his Kerry marker (can't remember who it was) have been enough to put of Francie Bellew in his pomp?

Course it would. That was all about Tommy Walsh being off balance and out of position. (And Seamus just standing his ground )

Doyle no?

Doyle sorry. Walsh would have very small at that stage. About 1/10000000th of an inch if anything.

[Lar Naparka]

These debates about the 'team of the 70s would be hammered/would hammer the team of the 10's' are pointless, but good craic.

I'm sure if a timemachine was invented, and the poor bewildered Kerry men were lifted en masse and dropped into Croke Park to face Kerry 2011, Dublin 2011 or Down 2011, they'd be blown away by the fitness and pace of the game.

But that's an unfair premise. I think if the same timemachine dropped the equally bewildered Kerry 2011 back into 1978, they'd be blown away by the physical nature of the games.

The only way this could be even a logical debate is if you compare the skills of the players from both those eras, and then apply the tangential factors like preparation, tactics etc as a flat factor across both teams. Then it becomes an interesting topic, and I think that while the outcomes can be debated, the good teams today would not be blown away by the good teams of the 70s, or 60s, 50s or whenever, but neither would the players of those eras be out of their depth if exposed to the same routines today.

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh.

Good post, AZ.
The point I'm trying to hammer into that poor, befuddled Kerry sod is that a modern referee wouldn't tolerate the dunts and the elbows and general pulling and dragging that passed for football in them days.
That's the only fact I would take for granted—attempting to match up players then and now is great craic but is ultimately pointless.

[heffo]

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh

I wonder would Seamus Darby's dunt on his Kerry marker (can't remember who it was) have been enough to put of Francie Bellew in his pomp?

Course it would. That was all about Tommy Walsh being off balance and out of position. (And Seamus just standing his ground )

Doyle no?

Doyle sorry. Walsh would have very small at that stage. About 1/10000000th of an inch if anything.

[boojangles]

Give me the 2nd half of this years Ulster Final to the 2nd half of this years Munster Final any day.

[Bogball XV]

they have won ulster after playing the preliminary game which has only been done once by armagh since the 1940's i think... (dont hold me to those facts...ha).

Just to add to your GAA knowledge..

Armagh did it in 2005 where they played 6 games.
1 against Fermanagh
2 against Donegal
1 against Derry
2 against Tyrone
[/quote]
He said Armagh were the only ones to win from the preliminary round since the 40's.

And yes Fermanagh were criticised for their style of play in 2008, Tyrone in 2003 and Armagh have been slated by most commentators for their tactics too.  As I said earlier, Donegal get a pass for this year, but if they want to appeal to other fans they've got to play some football too.

Imo they were the better team on Sunday and had no need to revert to the tactics they did in the second half.  Dinny says that as amateurs there is no onus on them to entertain, that's fine, but don't expect people to keep on coming along, paying good money to watch that sort of turgid rubbish?

[bcarrier]

These debates about the 'team of the 70s would be hammered/would hammer the team of the 10's' are pointless, but good craic.

I'm sure if a timemachine was invented, and the poor bewildered Kerry men were lifted en masse and dropped into Croke Park to face Kerry 2011, Dublin 2011 or Down 2011, they'd be blown away by the fitness and pace of the game.

But that's an unfair premise. I think if the same timemachine dropped the equally bewildered Kerry 2011 back into 1978, they'd be blown away by the physical nature of the games.

The only way this could be even a logical debate is if you compare the skills of the players from both those eras, and then apply the tangential factors like preparation, tactics etc as a flat factor across both teams. Then it becomes an interesting topic, and I think that while the outcomes can be debated, the good teams today would not be blown away by the good teams of the 70s, or 60s, 50s or whenever, but neither would the players of those eras be out of their depth if exposed to the same routines today.

It's good craic though. I'd love to see a 23 year old Jack O'Shea contesting a ball in midfield with Sean Cavanagh.

It is difficult to have a logical debate because there are so many variables. With access to the same resources as todays sides I am pretty sure the successful teams of the past would have held their own. If you look at players with long careers ...the likes of Dermot Early, Peter Canavan, Mickey Linden, Padraig Joyce etc, Darragh O Se etc I am not sure that they were more influential/ dominant in their early careers than the end ...of course each will have gone on some kind of football development curve but that is sort of the point ...good players adapt to the conditions/era they are playing in.