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[Billys Boots]

But AZ, is it not just (yet) another ill-informed opinion, similar to a fair percentage of what goes on around here?

[Dinny Breen]

I don't think that Val Andrews' coaching record (or indeed that of Tommy Carr) invalidates his point of view?

As an analyst which is what I stated it absolutely does, as an inter-county coach in the modern game he has been a failure, simple as that and to be honest I switch off the radio anytime he comes on because as a PAID analyst he hasn't a clue.

We're talking here about their viewpoint on internet discussion forums. I cannot believe that anyone seriously thinks that a poor inter county coaching record invaildates their point of view on that subject? Mind boggling stuff!!

Where did I say that, I all stated was that I had no time for them as analysts. So I don't particularly care what they think of Internet forums but in their defence as coaches with poor records you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work to out that they would have been the victims of personal attacks on the internet. That is where forums that are not moderated can let themselves down and the wider GAA community on the net.

[AZOffaly]

But AZ, is it not just (yet) another ill-informed opinion, similar to a fair percentage of what goes on around here?

Yes, it is. But we don't go on national radio and call all GAA players and managers ill informed muppets (Sorry muppet)

[AZOffaly]

AZ you're missing two boxes.

Journalists and multiples of the above.

Good point Passedit. I've added that, and I think ye can change your vote if you voted other and you're a journo. Don't be shy, it is Anonymous after all

[haze]

Good stuff. Keep the votes coming, and please be honest. Did anyone hear the discussion I'm referring to?
[/quote

Yeah i listened to it and to be honest it was infuriating listening to such a unbalanced viewpoint.. Val was very irratating. The best analysis of a game is more often than not found on message boards

[bennydorano]

Everyone's is entitled to their opinions, I dont think being a county player makes your opinion any more (or less) valid than someone who contributes at any other level, having management experience adds a string to your bow alright, but plenty of brutal managers get paid to analyse.  The Sunday Game is a perfect example, it's clear as day that O'Rourke has been in management at a successful level, it's not so clear about any of the rest of them, Brolly loves to hear himself talk, he's a lot less incisive with his analysis than he thinks he is; Spillane is too worried about asthetics to give any semblance of decent analysis; much as I like Tony Davis he adds little; McStay I can have alright and can be on the money a fair percentage of the time.  Martin Carney's co-commentary/analysis is  embarassing.  Peter Canavan is head and shoulders above them all IMO.

They are correct to an extent that there are some wild opinions on here - there are, and some people clearly dont know their arse from their elbow, but Val & co may miss the odd piss-take thou.

[AZOffaly]

I should note that they didn't (as far as I could hear) mention *this* board. Hogan Stand was mentioned, as was Boards.ie.

[muppet]

But AZ, is it not just (yet) another ill-informed opinion, similar to a fair percentage of what goes on around here?

Yes, it is. But we don't go on national radio and call all GAA players and managers ill informed muppets (Sorry muppet)

I'm an ex-ill informed muppet!

[Farrandeelin]

Voted honest as I could, I'm a club official (current). Had heart problems as a youngster so I couldn't play.

[squire_in_navy_slacks]

cheers AZ just curious to see if carr had a rant at the muppets over there.........................great topic btw dude

[Orangemac]

Good discussion on this. How good or what level someone played or managed at does not make their opinion any more important than anyone elses. It doesn't mean they are right but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

These forums only highlight what supporters are thinking. Some managers view them with suspicion as in their eyes it puts extra pressure on them but it is a results business and supporters will not be responsible for them losing their job. Val Andrews should be more worried about the pathetic showings against Donegal and Longford.

All sports are struggling with this instant voicing of opinions in the digital age. See the IFA are threatening fines for players who tweet inappropriatey, expect a similiar edit to follow from Croke Park.

[AZOffaly]

I know some of you probably think I am mad, and you might be right, but I sent this email off to Ger Gilroy this morning. I was annoyed listening to that I must say.

***************************

Hi Ger,

I'm a fan of the sports programmes on Newstalk, particularly the OffTheBall roadshow and your own Weekend Sport shows. I always feel ye are fans doing a job for fans, however I was disappointed with the way the discussion with Val and Tommy went on Satuday. I was in the Gaelic Grounds, and listening along as I watched Offaly capitulate to Limerick (sigh) and I was dsappointed to hear the two lads have a real cut off internet discussion forums.

I understand the fact that anonymity allows people to say things they wouldn't otherwise say, but very little that is said on internet forums goes unsaid in bars and pitches throughout the country. As long as it is not personal, and relates to the playing, coaching or refereeing skills on display, then surely that is just standard opinion, which everyone is allowed to have. Anything that veers into the personal should be out of bounds, and in fairness is usually moderated when it is reported, on any forums I've seen.

I must say, that listening on Saturday, it seemed to me that Val and Tommy would rather that no-one gave their opinion on GAA unless they had access to the media in some form, which is obviously the preserve of a select few. It sounded as if they thought that those people using the forums contribute nothing to the GAA and should be silenced or ignored. That's the bit that disappointed me. I don't mind being insulted indirectly as a user of those forums, per se, but what I do mind is that staunch GAA men like Val and Tommy would have such little regard for the people that post on those forums. I was also disappointed that, as there was no right of reply, yourself or Malachy didn't explain a few things to the lads, and of the key things that I think the lads are missing is that a lot, if not most, of the people who post on the GAA forums are active members, players, coaches, supporters etc. I don't think they understand that concept, and I think that's a common misunderstanding amongst those who dislike the internet forums. I think they think of the users as 'keyboard warriors' who are probably all pale, waif like creatures that have never kicked or pucked a ball in their life.

As a little experiment, I polled gaaboard.com yesterday. A discussion forum with a lot of members, quite a few contributors, and a lot of 'lurkers'. I asked people to be honest and answer a question as regards their involvement with the GAA. Of course it's highly unscientific, and (as with most polls) it's impossible to really tell if people are being truthful, but I think the results are illuminating, and they are consistant with my experiences whenever you meet someone from the GAABoard (as in our charity golf event that raised money for the Cormac Trust and Pieta House).

I don't expect people to like being criticised, and I accept that anonymity is a bugbear, but I think GAA people would be better off understanding *who* these people are.

Poll Added 12.15 pm yesterday, Monday July 11th.

Results as of Tuesday July 12th @ 10.40 am.

Respondants could choose multiple answers if they were applicable.

Number of Respondants (N.o.R) : 122

N.o.R. with no current or prior involvement in the GAA, other than being a 'supporter'. : 11
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, club players : 94
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, inter county players : 20
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, coaches of adult teams (including inter county) : 22
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, coaches of kids teams (including Go Games etc) : 37
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, county board officials : 13
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, club officials : 35
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, fundraisers for their club : 28
N.o.R. who are journalists or media members : 4
N.o.R. who signalled 'Other' GAA involvement : 5

I think those numbers speak for themselves, and give lie to the theory that internet forums are the preserve of disenchanted, disaffected, disenfranchised malcontents.

Regards

[thewobbler]

The closedmindedness of Andrews and co does annoy me.

The only roles above that don't apply to me are blow-in and county player. I wad a rubbish player but I sacrificed enough of my time and sat through enough team talks from enough managers to more than earn my opinion. 

I've also sat in the company of enough county players and managers to learn that some people are born with an innate understanding of Gaelic Football when they're on the field, that bears no relation to their ability to analyse the game, or to analyse players. The most talented, most intelligent player I've ever seen in Down is, put simply, a dreadful manager.


We don't help ourselves on here in that some of our members are particularly vexatious and unnecessarily personal. The John Clarke situation though rankled with me - there was hardly even a harsh word said about him on this board or others, but honest appraisals of some of his performances obviously went down the wrong way.

Perhaps if our journalists actually called a spade a spade every once in a while and stopped worrying about offending the players, their sensitivity threshold might rise. I'm not asking for open season on players - I couldn't think of anything worse - but be prepared to accept critiicism along with adulation.

[AZOffaly]

The closedmindedness of Andrews and co does annoy me.

The only roles above that don't apply to me are blow-in and county player. I wad a rubbish player but I sacrificed enough of my time and sat through enough team talks from enough managers to more than earn my opinion. 

I've also sat in the company of enough county players and managers to learn that some people are born with an innate understanding of Gaelic Football when they're on the field, that bears no relation to their ability to analyse the game, or to analyse players. The most talented, most intelligent player I've ever seen in Down is, put simply, a dreadful manager.


We don't help ourselves on here in that some of our members are particularly vexatious and unnecessarily personal. The John Clarke situation though rankled with me - there was hardly even a harsh word said about him on this board or others, but honest appraisals of some of his performances obviously went down the wrong way.

Perhaps if our journalists actually called a spade a spade every once in a while and stopped worrying about offending the players, their sensitivity threshold might rise. I'm not asking for open season on players - I couldn't think of anything worse - but be prepared to accept critiicism along with adulation.

My vexation is not because they think our opinions are less important than theirs, that's a common thing. What vexes me is that they thing we should be shut up as if we don't deserve to have an opinion because we are all faceless cowards hiding behind screen names. My point is that anonyity is part of internet forums, but the people behind the handles are every bit as steeped in the GAA as Val or Tommy are.

[muppet]

The closedmindedness of Andrews and co does annoy me.

The only roles above that don't apply to me are blow-in and county player. I wad a rubbish player but I sacrificed enough of my time and sat through enough team talks from enough managers to more than earn my opinion. 

I've also sat in the company of enough county players and managers to learn that some people are born with an innate understanding of Gaelic Football when they're on the field, that bears no relation to their ability to analyse the game, or to analyse players. The most talented, most intelligent player I've ever seen in Down is, put simply, a dreadful manager.


We don't help ourselves on here in that some of our members are particularly vexatious and unnecessarily personal. The John Clarke situation though rankled with me - there was hardly even a harsh word said about him on this board or others, but honest appraisals of some of his performances obviously went down the wrong way.

Perhaps if our journalists actually called a spade a spade every once in a while and stopped worrying about offending the players, their sensitivity threshold might rise. I'm not asking for open season on players - I couldn't think of anything worse - but be prepared to accept critiicism along with adulation.

My vexation is not because they think our opinions are less important than theirs, that's a common thing. What vexes me is that they thing we should be shut up as if we don't deserve to have an opinion because we are all faceless cowards hiding behind screen names. My point is that anonyity is part of internet forums, but the people behind the handles are every bit as steeped in the GAA as Val or Tommy are.

I find it ironic that they appear to be doing, with a very broad brush and from a privileged position, what they say we shouldn't be doing, i.e. criticising people.

By the way, diverging slightly, I have the Newstalk App. This beautifully solves the - I only hear the radio when I'm in the car - problem. Now I can listen to David Brady talk about the arse in Murphs's trousers when I'm cutting the grass, washing the child or pretending to do some other vital domestic activity. Magic!