People from the 6 counties (our wee country)

[Eamonnca1]

Dunno what happened the Welsh, mind 

Wales was annexed rather than being unified on equal terms with England like Scotland was. Hence laws passed in Westminster apply to "England and Wales" as a single block.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Britain is an island (ergo, the English, Welsh and Scots can correctly say that they're British since, erm... they come from Britain), and Ireland is an island; EG is one of this magical troop that can be from two islands at once, WHOA!* 

* Being British in respect of Ireland is a status, not a statement of origin/nationality, just like those in the 26 counties were British before 1922 (a status can be rescinded but a nationality can never be). I respect those of our (Irish) unionist brethren, however, who wish to maintain their British status, that's their choice.

[Oraisteach]

Also, EG, quite apart from its flexibility, the English language has to a large extent been the language of imperialism--the sun never setting on the British empire, and all that.

[Eamonnca1]

I am entirely happy with my identity.

You still don't get it, do you?  Leave aside the fact that you as an individual gave about half a dozen different answers to the simple question of what you are. Let's assume you were able to give a straight answer, then you as an individual might be happy with or not confused about your identity. But your community is not. Want me to repeat that? Your community as a whole hasn't a clue what they're supposed to be. Youse are a million people, each giving a different answer to the question of what youse are and each individually claiming to be not confused. Collectively, you're confused. And in some cases (such as yourself) you are confused as individuals despite your claims that you are not.

Let me recall a lunchtime conversation at a place I used to work at in Lurgan.  There was only three fenians in an office of about a dozen people. Someone made a remark about something that was going on "around the country." What followed was a frenzy of confused questioning about what he meant by that simple remark.

"Where, you mean in the countryside?"

"Do you mean all over Ireland?"

"Oh, you mean the province?"

"Was this on the mainland too?" (That was from a fella from Lisburn who was once overheard on the phone describing himself as an "English type" person.)

We fenians sat back and kept straight faces while they tried to work through their identity crisis. Bless their hearts.

[Evil Genius]

Whereas by contrast, I often find that those who cling most determinedly to a fixed and unyielding position, which brooks no challenge, subtlety or nuance, are actually concealing a deeper obtuseness and insecurity, such that they dare  not admit that these things are never "black and white".

So people who can answer the question of what they are without sounding confused are "concealing a deeper obtuseness and insecurity"?  HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one!


"But I'm not confused. Honest, guv!"

I know exactly who and what I am. If you do not understand my explanation, then you  are the one who is "confused", not me.

For I, too, am a "proud Irishman from Fermanagh".

But I am also a "Brit".

"But I'm not confused. Honest, guv!"

If you are claiming that as a Fermanaghman, I cannot be both British and Irish, then how do you explain the Good Friday Agreement, whose Participants:
"... recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both,
as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments"
http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

Or are you "confused" by that, too? 

[Eamonnca1]

Being British in respect of Ireland is a status, not a statement of origin/nationality, just like those in the 26 counties were British before 1922 (a status can be rescinded but a nationality can never be). I respect those of our (Irish) unionist brethren, however, who wish to maintain their British status, that's their choice.

Exactly. There's no such thing as a British nationality, it's a citizenship. The UK is a union of countries, not a single country. It may be a single sovereign state, but the identity of the individual countries therein has never gone away. Part of one of the countries may have left, but it is still a country albeit straddling two jurisdictions.

[Eamonnca1]

Whereas by contrast, I often find that those who cling most determinedly to a fixed and unyielding position, which brooks no challenge, subtlety or nuance, are actually concealing a deeper obtuseness and insecurity, such that they dare  not admit that these things are never "black and white".

So people who can answer the question of what they are without sounding confused are "concealing a deeper obtuseness and insecurity"?  HAHAHAHA!! That's a good one!


"But I'm not confused. Honest, guv!"

I know exactly who and what I am. If you do not understand my explanation, then you  are the one who is "confused", not me.

Confuuuuuuuuuuused!!!!!!!

For I, too, am a "proud Irishman from Fermanagh".

But I am also a "Brit".

"But I'm not confused. Honest, guv!"

If you are claiming that as a Fermanaghman, I cannot be both British and Irish, then how do you explain the Good Friday Agreement, whose Participants:
"... recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both,
as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments"
http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

Or are you "confused" by that, too? 

Nowhere in the GFA does it say anything about having the right to call yourself "Northern Irish / Ulsterish / Scotch-Irish / Ulster-Scot / Norish*".

* Wanna hear a funny story?  I once saw a letter in the Belfast Telegraph from yet another confused planter who had the bright idea of concocting a new identity for the self-styled "British state" in the north of our country. It went along the lines of "Let's call ourselves 'Norish' and take our place among the nations of the world."  That's no joke! 

[Evil Genius]

So what can only be described as the constant indecision from the Unionist population as to whether they live in a country, or state, or region, or ('the') province, or nation, is actually just a sign of confidence and of the maturity to not look have to look for certainty? I've heard it all now.

Sorry, but to me it is a sign of identity crisis.

You have to hand it to him though, don't you?  An inability to make your mind up about what you are is actually a sign of confidence, whereas a lack of confusion is actually a sign of some deep-seated psychological problems where you're actually hiding something.  That's the best bit of sophistry I've seen in a while. 

Claiming that I am "unable to make my mind up" is like saying a Rainbow* cannot decide what colour it is.


* - A rainbow is made up of a number of colours, if that helps... 

For his next trick EG is going to prove that the north pole is actually the south pole and vice versa.

If I were to try to do that, I would be wrong, not "confused".

You are confusing the two concepts.

Which is why you continue to get it wrong...

[Oraisteach]

This land is your land,
This land is my land,
From Clonalilty
To Magee Island
This land was gerrymandered for you and me.

And whether in Kilkeel
Or Tory Island
In Ballygawley
Or Rathfriland
No crisis of I-dentity

[Evil Genius]

Britain is an island (ergo, the English, Welsh and Scots can correctly say that they're British since, erm... they come from Britain), and Ireland is an island; EG is one of this magical troop that can be from two islands at once, WHOA!* 

You are conflating the Geographical (location) with the Political (status).

I don't know whether you do so because you are incapable of understanding the difference, or you do understand it, but in some way hope to undermine my British birthright.

Either way I couldn't care less - I know I'm British and I've got my Passport and my Vote (and the Good Friday Agreement!) to prove it. 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Either way I couldn't care less - I know I'm British and I've got my Passport and my Vote to prove it. 

Just like your confreres in the 26 counties, before 1922! 

[Evil Genius]

Also, EG, quite apart from its flexibility, the English language has to a large extent been the language of imperialism--the sun never setting on the British empire, and all that.

As I said, its flexibility is only one of the reasons. Of course, the Empire is another, but it is hardly coincidental that English is usually also the second language in countries which were never part of the Empire.

Still what did the Romans ever do for us, eh? 

[Tonto]

Britain is an island (ergo, the English, Welsh and Scots can correctly say that they're British since, erm... they come from Britain), and Ireland is an island; EG is one of this magical troop that can be from two islands at once, WHOA!* 

* Being British in respect of Ireland is a status, not a statement of origin/nationality, just like those in the 26 counties were British before 1922 (a status can be rescinded but a nationality can never be). I respect those of our (Irish) unionist brethren, however, who wish to maintain their British status, that's their choice.

That's an interesting take on it that I haven't heard before.  But if that is the case how come my passport doesn't mention my "status" but it DOES mention my "nationality"?

[Evil Genius]

I am entirely happy with my identity.

You still don't get it, do you?  Leave aside the fact that you as an individual gave about half a dozen different answers to the simple question of what you are. Let's assume you were able to give a straight answer, then you as an individual might be happy with or not confused about your identity. But your community is not. Want me to repeat that? Your community as a whole hasn't a clue what they're supposed to be. Youse are a million people, each giving a different answer to the question of what youse are and each individually claiming to be not confused. Collectively, you're confused. And in some cases (such as yourself) you are confused as individuals despite your claims that you are not.

Oh ffs! It's not a maths question, where there is only one prescribed answer!

Just because different people give different answers when questioned about their identity, doesn't mean they're confused, it simply means they disagree - if only in terms of emphasis or priority.

Let me recall a lunchtime conversation at a place I used to work at in Lurgan.  There was only three fenians in an office of about a dozen people. Someone made a remark about something that was going on "around the country." What followed was a frenzy of confused questioning about what he meant by that simple remark.

"Where, you mean in the countryside?"

"Do you mean all over Ireland?"

"Oh, you mean the province?"

"Was this on the mainland too?" (That was from a fella from Lisburn who was once overheard on the phone describing himself as an "English type" person.)

We fenians sat back and kept straight faces while they tried to work through their identity crisis. Bless their hearts.

Hilarious. You must be a real wow at parties...

[stew]

I am Irish, I dont use the term Northern Ireland and I have no affinity to Britain at all at all.

What McIlroy stands for is up to him but he is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt, on the island of Ireland you are always going to pish somebody off and I for one dont give a shite what he considers himself.

Fair play to McIlroy and heres hoping the brits feck off and we can get our country back after centuries of foreign rule.