Syria

[tbrick18]

I wouldn't pretend to understand the intricacies of Syria - but Assad was a brutal dictator and his removal should be welcomed.
We can only hope HTS have seen enough of what has happened in other places to follow through with what they are saying now and work towards peace and prosperity for the Syrian people.
But these feckin Israeli's are doing their best to destabilise further.

What I can't quite get my head around is if Israel are the tail wagging the American dog, or if they are the American proxy. Either way - both should be ashamed.

[johnnycool]

My two cents on Syria.

Initial thoughts is that I'm quite hopeful this will be an end to the bloodshed and not the beginning of more as the majority of commentators seem to be suggesting. There's 3 reasons I have for this.

HTS are trying to give the impression that they are not an extremist group. Probably in an effort to garner some level of acceptance overseas which will bolster their economic links and in the medium term strengthen their position as leaders of the Syrian government.

Secondly there seems not to be large reprisals or extensive violence directed at the previous regime. They seem to have treated the reigning PM with a level of respect, at least until he hands over control of the government to them. This would suggest HTS are trying to draw a line under the civil war and settle down tensions again most likely so that they can take control of the state.

Thirdly HTS appears to have created quite a broad coalition to overthrow Assad, certainly they bought off or won over elements of Assad's army. They also look to have, at the very least, won a tactile approval from the Kurdish militias and the Turkish supported militias. It does not seem that these groups are using the overthrow to seek secession, or more power or undermine the regime change.

Lastly it's quite odd, given all the ire most European media outlets direct at Donald Trump and his administration, to see so many commentators pretty much back the new Trumpian American foreign policy. The generally accepted view seems to be that the west should not get involved in either supporting or opposing this new regime. The era of liberal interventionism is dead and welcomed across the American/Western political spectrum.

Personally i think the new isolationism policy is gonna be wrong this time. I would support the new HTS regime in Syria if only to a) build up Syrian infrastructure again and b) stabilise the political landscape. The West could easily supply a monthly line of credit to Syria on the sole condition that there is no more violence. To do nothing is to ensure Syria becomes a regional puppet. To ask for anything more is to once again impose Western ideals on a people who resent the cultural interference.

There's plenty of video's around of HTS/ISIS/Al Qaeda committing summary executions in Syria if you look beyond the normal mainstream media.

Assad going has the potential for being a good day for Syrians but what makes you lads think this hotch both of Jihadi's that have taken over are going to be any better?

Also,
  Ergodan is going to reap what he has sown and the Israelis do what they do best, a quick land grab, blow the shít out of the place with their US bombs and planes so he's some set on him to complain about the Israelis now.

HTS are not ISIS and they are not Al-Qaeda despite their origins.

Assad was so bad Syrians are ecstatic even to have the 'potential' for a better future. The pro-strongman dictatorship fanboys in the west begrudge them even that.

The fanboys miss Assad already, even though for some reason Israel only feel the need to destroy his military capability after he is gone.

Hopefully not but sure we will see.

Like we saw in Libya?

Even the Syrians celebrating over here at the fall of Assad aren't rushing back to Syria until they see how it pans out!

Someone is on the Kool-aid if they think these Jihadi's have somehow had a "Road to Damascus" conversion recently, just like Bin Laden, the CIA's go to man in Afghanistan and the Mujahadeen.

[Banks of the Bann]

My two cents on Syria.

Initial thoughts is that I'm quite hopeful this will be an end to the bloodshed and not the beginning of more as the majority of commentators seem to be suggesting. There's 3 reasons I have for this.

HTS are trying to give the impression that they are not an extremist group. Probably in an effort to garner some level of acceptance overseas which will bolster their economic links and in the medium term strengthen their position as leaders of the Syrian government.

Secondly there seems not to be large reprisals or extensive violence directed at the previous regime. They seem to have treated the reigning PM with a level of respect, at least until he hands over control of the government to them. This would suggest HTS are trying to draw a line under the civil war and settle down tensions again most likely so that they can take control of the state.

Thirdly HTS appears to have created quite a broad coalition to overthrow Assad, certainly they bought off or won over elements of Assad's army. They also look to have, at the very least, won a tactile approval from the Kurdish militias and the Turkish supported militias. It does not seem that these groups are using the overthrow to seek secession, or more power or undermine the regime change.

Lastly it's quite odd, given all the ire most European media outlets direct at Donald Trump and his administration, to see so many commentators pretty much back the new Trumpian American foreign policy. The generally accepted view seems to be that the west should not get involved in either supporting or opposing this new regime. The era of liberal interventionism is dead and welcomed across the American/Western political spectrum.

Personally i think the new isolationism policy is gonna be wrong this time. I would support the new HTS regime in Syria if only to a) build up Syrian infrastructure again and b) stabilise the political landscape. The West could easily supply a monthly line of credit to Syria on the sole condition that there is no more violence. To do nothing is to ensure Syria becomes a regional puppet. To ask for anything more is to once again impose Western ideals on a people who resent the cultural interference.

There's plenty of video's around of HTS/ISIS/Al Qaeda committing summary executions in Syria if you look beyond the normal mainstream media.

Assad going has the potential for being a good day for Syrians but what makes you lads think this hotch both of Jihadi's that have taken over are going to be any better?

Also,
  Ergodan is going to reap what he has sown and the Israelis do what they do best, a quick land grab, blow the shít out of the place with their US bombs and planes so he's some set on him to complain about the Israelis now.

HTS are not ISIS and they are not Al-Qaeda despite their origins.

Assad was so bad Syrians are ecstatic even to have the 'potential' for a better future. The pro-strongman dictatorship fanboys in the west begrudge them even that.

The fanboys miss Assad already, even though for some reason Israel only feel the need to destroy his military capability after he is gone.

Hopefully not but sure we will see.

Like we saw in Libya?

Even the Syrians celebrating over here at the fall of Assad aren't rushing back to Syria until they see how it pans out!

Someone is on the Kool-aid if they think these Jihadi's have somehow had a "Road to Damascus" conversion recently, just like Bin Laden, the CIA's go to man in Afghanistan and the Mujahadeen.

Syria is not Libya. You don't know it will go down the same road, neither do I. Syrians aren't stupid, they also know the path ahead is very uncertain.

So Syrians here aren't rushing back. Plenty coming back from Turkey and elsewhere. All have one thing in common, all celebrating.

Would you dare lecture any celebrating Syrians here that they'd all be better of under Assad because of the uncertain future ahead?

[johnnycool]

My two cents on Syria.

Initial thoughts is that I'm quite hopeful this will be an end to the bloodshed and not the beginning of more as the majority of commentators seem to be suggesting. There's 3 reasons I have for this.

HTS are trying to give the impression that they are not an extremist group. Probably in an effort to garner some level of acceptance overseas which will bolster their economic links and in the medium term strengthen their position as leaders of the Syrian government.

Secondly there seems not to be large reprisals or extensive violence directed at the previous regime. They seem to have treated the reigning PM with a level of respect, at least until he hands over control of the government to them. This would suggest HTS are trying to draw a line under the civil war and settle down tensions again most likely so that they can take control of the state.

Thirdly HTS appears to have created quite a broad coalition to overthrow Assad, certainly they bought off or won over elements of Assad's army. They also look to have, at the very least, won a tactile approval from the Kurdish militias and the Turkish supported militias. It does not seem that these groups are using the overthrow to seek secession, or more power or undermine the regime change.

Lastly it's quite odd, given all the ire most European media outlets direct at Donald Trump and his administration, to see so many commentators pretty much back the new Trumpian American foreign policy. The generally accepted view seems to be that the west should not get involved in either supporting or opposing this new regime. The era of liberal interventionism is dead and welcomed across the American/Western political spectrum.

Personally i think the new isolationism policy is gonna be wrong this time. I would support the new HTS regime in Syria if only to a) build up Syrian infrastructure again and b) stabilise the political landscape. The West could easily supply a monthly line of credit to Syria on the sole condition that there is no more violence. To do nothing is to ensure Syria becomes a regional puppet. To ask for anything more is to once again impose Western ideals on a people who resent the cultural interference.

There's plenty of video's around of HTS/ISIS/Al Qaeda committing summary executions in Syria if you look beyond the normal mainstream media.

Assad going has the potential for being a good day for Syrians but what makes you lads think this hotch both of Jihadi's that have taken over are going to be any better?

Also,
  Ergodan is going to reap what he has sown and the Israelis do what they do best, a quick land grab, blow the shít out of the place with their US bombs and planes so he's some set on him to complain about the Israelis now.

HTS are not ISIS and they are not Al-Qaeda despite their origins.

Assad was so bad Syrians are ecstatic even to have the 'potential' for a better future. The pro-strongman dictatorship fanboys in the west begrudge them even that.

The fanboys miss Assad already, even though for some reason Israel only feel the need to destroy his military capability after he is gone.

Hopefully not but sure we will see.

Like we saw in Libya?

Even the Syrians celebrating over here at the fall of Assad aren't rushing back to Syria until they see how it pans out!

Someone is on the Kool-aid if they think these Jihadi's have somehow had a "Road to Damascus" conversion recently, just like Bin Laden, the CIA's go to man in Afghanistan and the Mujahadeen.

Syria is not Libya. You don't know it will go down the same road, neither do I. Syrians aren't stupid, they also know the path ahead is very uncertain.

So Syrians here aren't rushing back. Plenty coming back from Turkey and elsewhere. All have one thing in common, all celebrating.

Would you dare lecture any celebrating Syrians here that they'd all be better of under Assad because of the uncertain future ahead?

https://x.com/i/status/1867172585575784647

For now!

[SaffronSports]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

[johnnycool]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

[SaffronSports]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

Is there not a saying about insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Milltown Row2]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

I'm not sure anyone in here has 'fanboy'd' this crowd though.

[Banks of the Bann]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

I'm not sure anyone in here has 'fanboy'd' this crowd though.

They aren't ISIS either.

[johnnycool]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

I'm not sure anyone in here has 'fanboy'd' this crowd though.

They aren't ISIS either.

Dancing on the head of a pin. What are the noticeable differences we should be looking out for in the "moderates" in Al Qa'ida" that ISIS wouldn't be?

So, are HTS a proscribed terrorist organisation by the US, United Nations, UK or not?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version

Al Qa'ida (AQ) - Proscribed March 2001
Inspired and led by Usama Bin Laden, its aims are the expulsion of Western forces from Saudi Arabia, the destruction of Israel and the end of Western influence in the Muslim world.

The government laid Orders, in July 2013 December 2016 and May 2017, which provided that the "al-Nusrah Front (ANF)", "Jabhat al-Nusrah li-ahl al Sham", "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" and "Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham" should be treated as alternative names for the organisation which is already proscribed under the name Al Qa'ida.

[Banks of the Bann]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

I'm not sure anyone in here has 'fanboy'd' this crowd though.

They aren't ISIS either.

Dancing on the head of a pin. What are the noticeable differences we should be looking out for in the "moderates" in Al Qa'ida" that ISIS wouldn't be?

So, are HTS a proscribed terrorist organisation by the US, United Nations, UK or not?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version

Al Qa'ida (AQ) - Proscribed March 2001
Inspired and led by Usama Bin Laden, its aims are the expulsion of Western forces from Saudi Arabia, the destruction of Israel and the end of Western influence in the Muslim world.

The government laid Orders, in July 2013 December 2016 and May 2017, which provided that the "al-Nusrah Front (ANF)", "Jabhat al-Nusrah li-ahl al Sham", "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" and "Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham" should be treated as alternative names for the organisation which is already proscribed under the name Al Qa'ida.

It's not dancing on the head of a pin. They aren't ISIS, nor Al Qaeda for that matter. You want them to be and obviously can't wait for the carnage to begin so you can say I told you so.

The rest of us are, like the Syrians, hopeful that they will act out their rhetoric of what they want for Syria.

[tbrick18]

For context, Hezbolla, Hamas, and the IRA were/are all defined as terrorist organisations.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter as the saying goes.
Just because the UK/US/Israel say a group are terrorist doesn't necessarily make it so.

I don't know enough about HTS to form an opinion on if they are terrorists, but time will tell now that they are in power.

[johnnycool]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

I'm not sure anyone in here has 'fanboy'd' this crowd though.

They aren't ISIS either.

Dancing on the head of a pin. What are the noticeable differences we should be looking out for in the "moderates" in Al Qa'ida" that ISIS wouldn't be?

So, are HTS a proscribed terrorist organisation by the US, United Nations, UK or not?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version

Al Qa'ida (AQ) - Proscribed March 2001
Inspired and led by Usama Bin Laden, its aims are the expulsion of Western forces from Saudi Arabia, the destruction of Israel and the end of Western influence in the Muslim world.

The government laid Orders, in July 2013 December 2016 and May 2017, which provided that the "al-Nusrah Front (ANF)", "Jabhat al-Nusrah li-ahl al Sham", "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" and "Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham" should be treated as alternative names for the organisation which is already proscribed under the name Al Qa'ida.

It's not dancing on the head of a pin. They aren't ISIS, nor Al Qaeda for that matter. You want them to be and obviously can't wait for the carnage to begin so you can say I told you so.

The rest of us are, like the Syrians, hopeful that they will act out their rhetoric of what they want for Syria.

So, you reckon the UK Foreign Office and intelligence services have gotten it all wrong about HTS?

I'm only quoting them.

I don't want them to be what they are, I really do want them to ride off into the sunset and let the Syrians decide for themselves who governs them and what way they want to be governed, but that would be a first for any regime change in that area.

We all live in hope.

[Banks of the Bann]

Ultimately people celebrated the capture downfall of Saddam, Gaddafi and others. They believed their troubles were over. It would be great if the future was bright for the region but the reality is the history tells us it will get worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Even people here wouldn't have far to look for misguided joy. Were a lot of catholics not delighted at the arrival of the Brits thinking they were there to save them from the loyalist hate mobs burning them out and attacking them. Didn't work out did it.

Exactly that.

Assad was/is a tyrant, no question, but don't be fanboying these ISIS lads either.

I'm not sure anyone in here has 'fanboy'd' this crowd though.

They aren't ISIS either.

Dancing on the head of a pin. What are the noticeable differences we should be looking out for in the "moderates" in Al Qa'ida" that ISIS wouldn't be?

So, are HTS a proscribed terrorist organisation by the US, United Nations, UK or not?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version

Al Qa'ida (AQ) - Proscribed March 2001
Inspired and led by Usama Bin Laden, its aims are the expulsion of Western forces from Saudi Arabia, the destruction of Israel and the end of Western influence in the Muslim world.

The government laid Orders, in July 2013 December 2016 and May 2017, which provided that the "al-Nusrah Front (ANF)", "Jabhat al-Nusrah li-ahl al Sham", "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" and "Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham" should be treated as alternative names for the organisation which is already proscribed under the name Al Qa'ida.

It's not dancing on the head of a pin. They aren't ISIS, nor Al Qaeda for that matter. You want them to be and obviously can't wait for the carnage to begin so you can say I told you so.

The rest of us are, like the Syrians, hopeful that they will act out their rhetoric of what they want for Syria.

So, you reckon the UK Foreign Office and intelligence services have gotten it all wrong about HTS?

I'm only quoting them.

I don't want them to be what they are, I really do want them to ride off into the sunset and let the Syrians decide for themselves who governs them and what way they want to be governed, but that would be a first for any regime change in that area.

We all live in hope.

It's been widely reported and you will have heard it that they split from AQ and severed ties in 2016/17.

[north_antrim_hound]

The UK foreign office has no problem backing the biggest terrorist (Isreal) in the Middle East in their quest for extermination of the Palestinians. If it suits their agenda they will and probably behind doors are backing the HTS. Do people realise with the fall of the Assad regime the axis of resistance is now split. How does Iran get weapons to hezbollah or Hamas now. The fact this kicked off at the exact same time as the ceasefire stinks of collusion