The Race for the ARAS.....

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

So I dont get to vote for the President of my own country, try telling black people they cant vote in America, thats what its like to me!

It's a bit more like telling black people in Canada that they cannot vote in the US elections.

So you regard the six counties as being to Ireland what Canada is to the USA....a totally seperate nation? Take it down from the mast indeed.

That statement is based on the two areas being seperate administrative states, one where the electoral frachise of the United States is not extended to Canada. It is quite simple that what LIS was trying to say about the situation being the same as black people in the United States is not the same. It is not the same at all, because they are living in the same state and having voting rights. You know very well I have on many occasions called for the franchise to be extended to the north for the Presidential elections, but until they are it is indeed more similar to the US-Canada situation. These are the facts, even if we do not like them.

Of course the ridiculous "take it down from the mast" brigade refuse to aknowledge the actual realities that exist.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Quote from MGHU...
It's a bit more like telling black people in Canada that they cannot vote in the US elections.

MGHU you are a sad sorry excuse for an Irishman, if indeed you still are one and have not naturalised in your adopted home. I rarely agreed with you, but usually respected you and credited you with having some intelligence, but after reading that statement i see how wrong i was

Basically addressed this in an answer to Nally, not going to repost it.

[AQMP]

Ask McGuinness this!

Does he think we'll get to 200 pages before next Thursday?

[Applesisapples]

Another matter that smells strange is the one of SF TDs only getting the minimum wage and giving the rest to SF

One of the things that struck me about this, and Joe Higgins and RBB do it as well I think, is that these salaries are paid out of the public purse so is there a case for saying if they want to take the average ind wage then the rest should be given back to the exchequer and not to their parties

Yes. People seem to fall for this sleight of hand very easily. "I only take the average industrial wage" is never qualified with "the rest of it goes to the Sinn Fein machine". I can't see the electorate being that impressed if they fully understood that the fund that holds the proceeds of the party's very effective fundraising activities down the years is the beneficiary of this self denial and not the taxpayer. I hadn't thought of the maximum contribution legislation before either. How do they get around that?

I thought it was obvious that a Sinn Fein td's salary goes to the party and they get paid out from that. That's common knowledge, in the public domain, no secret.

As far as McGuinness' hypothetical presidential salary, he has claimed he would put the surplus aside into a separate social fund.

Main Street, the maximum a party may accept from a single donor is €6,348.69. Anything over that must be declared and goes to the State. TDs earn close to €100,000. Deduct the maximum they can give to SF and that leaves well over €90,000.

The average wage is about 30K Euro so your maths is a bit out. SF are not the only party to have their MLA's/TD's make a donation to party funds others do like wise but not perhaps as much. you also fail to take into account office costs, staff and expenses. One thing is sure I can't believe SF would be so stupid as to have donations greater than that allowed by law. I also understand that some community activists and workers who aren't elected also get paid, quite easy for a TD to do so directly.

[Applesisapples]

How do you work that one out? That sounds like something a treaty signing b**tard would say! Take it down from the mast you Brit loving ****!

I see you are new you will learn to ignore the posts of some who are partionist and generally rude about people from the North. They tend to be anti SF, selective in their view of events both in the present and in history. They act like "free staters" but hate the term and berate any one who uses it. But they have absolutely no problem referring to "nordies" in drogratory terms and like all pro treaty parties from the war of (partial) independance see the GFA as a reinforcement of partition.

[ludermor]

Quote from MGHU...
It's a bit more like telling black people in Canada that they cannot vote in the US elections.

MGHU you are a sad sorry excuse for an Irishman, if indeed you still are one and have not naturalised in your adopted home. I rarely agreed with you, but usually respected you and credited you with having some intelligence, but after reading that statement i see how wrong i was

Oh FFS!!!

[seafoid]

I was talking to someone at Raidio na Gaeltachta today about the TG4 debate. Ni raibh Gaeilge ach ag Michael D. Gaeilge scoile a bhi ag Gallagher. Ni raibh focal ar bith ag Dana. Cupla focal ag McGuinness. Nach mor an naire e.

[Mayo4Sam]

As someone who would never vote SF, purely because of their policies have large holes IMO, and would definitely never vote FF, because they're a thieving showers of f**kers who should be taken out and shot on charges of treason, I'll be voting Sean Gallagher No. 1 & MMcG No. 2.

I'd respect Gallaghers claim that he is entitled to be grassroots FF, I'd hope maybe naively that he left for ideological reasons rather than his knowing he would be running for president, but either way I'd be happy enough, he doesn't seem to have been appointed to any quangos, he applied to FAS and gave his initial €11k to charity and refused all other expenses etc. I had dealings with him in a previous job life and I found him a sound, likeable fella.

I think MMcG has really come into his own as debates have gone on. It's a valid point that people in general aren't asking him questions about the IRA, most would accept it as part of our history, who is to say when it became illegal to fight for Irish independence? Some could claim my grandfather was a terrorist! We can't expect Northern voters to accept his past and then not do likewise. I think he is gas going on about the woman he's met from Tallaght, every example he gives has her in it, he mostknow every woman out there! I also accept his stance on the Queen visiting, he followed party lines earlier in the year and is happy to meet her now.

I'll be putting down my pen after that.
Mary Davis is a Mayo woman but she seems to move from Quango to Quango, golden circle FF IMO.
Norris is an unbelievable dose, I'd be ashamed to have him as president.
FG went with the wrong candidate, Mairead McGuinness would wipe the floor with this field, GM is dull and FG have been poor. They are now claiming that you need political experience to get the job, I guess nobody told Mary McAleese!
Labour have jumped on that bandwagon too, I've also realised I prefer gift grub Micheal D to the real one! He is also too old IMO.
Dana just isn't at the races at all, I voted for her in a euro election previously because I thought she spoke sense but I think she's been poor this time around.

[Nally Stand]

Ask McGuinness this!

Does he think we'll get to 200 pages before next Thursday?

Obviously you would have to have to ask it in a fair and balanced manner. Something along the lines of....

"Martin, do you think this thread will reach 200 pages before next Thursday, considering you were involved in the murder of so many innocent people?"

[lynchbhoy]

Mayo4sam - I wouldnt say MMcG has performed that well ,maybe more a case of the rest being not great in debates - plus mcG gets more airtime as he seems to be focussed on a lot !

as for the stance on the queen. I liken that to many peoples stance on Croke park opening up.
Once it was and we had soccer and rubgy playing in it, there is no turning back and no point in objecting to what has already happened.
I feelthe same way about the queen, while it may have been possibly a touch early for a lot of people to have her visit, its done now and whats the point in objecting to further visits !
that would be plain stupid (though I suspect some would object!).

[Nally Stand]

So I dont get to vote for the President of my own country, try telling black people they cant vote in America, thats what its like to me!

It's a bit more like telling black people in Canada that they cannot vote in the US elections.

So you regard the six counties as being to Ireland what Canada is to the USA....a totally seperate nation? Take it down from the mast indeed.

That statement is based on the two areas being seperate administrative states, one where the electoral frachise of the United States is not extended to Canada. It is quite simple that what LIS was trying to say about the situation being the same as black people in the United States is not the same. It is not the same at all, because they are living in the same state and having voting rights. You know very well I have on many occasions called for the franchise to be extended to the north for the Presidential elections, but until they are it is indeed more similar to the US-Canada situation. These are the facts, even if we do not like them.

Of course the ridiculous "take it down from the mast" brigade refuse to aknowledge the actual realities that exist.

Actual realities? Here's a few realities.... Canadians are not Americans. Americans are not Canadian. They are two totally seperate nationalities. I am from one of the six counties. My nationality is 100% as Irish as any Mayo man. So don't come on here chatting shite about it being like Canada and the USA.

[Evil Genius]

So I dont get to vote for the President of my own country, try telling black people they cant vote in America, thats what its like to me!

It's a bit more like telling black people in Canada that they cannot vote in the US elections.

So you regard the six counties as being to Ireland what Canada is to the USA....a totally seperate nation? Take it down from the mast indeed.

Actually this Irishman regards the "six counties" [sic]  neighbour as being more akin to Mexico than the USA, but no matter.

Anyhow, if we are going to stretch this analogy, we might bear in mind that Canada is "British" in terms of its Head of State and Commonwealth status etc, rather like NI; whereas the USA is independent of the UK.

Moreover, the USA broke away on the principle of "No Taxation without Representation". Therefore the converse should equally apply - "No Representation without Taxation"?

Are people like you who demand an Irish vote also going to accept eg Irish tax, health and education provisions etc?

For if I were resident in the Republic, I think I'd be seriously p1ssed off at bloody Nordies wanting it both ways...

[Applesisapples]

I for one would gladly pay my way as a fully enfranchised Irish citizen.

[Declan]

would definitely never vote FF,because they're a thieving showers of f**kers who should be taken out and shot on charges of treason

Sounds like a position many people have and understandable

I'll be voting Sean Gallagher No. 1

- WTF - You are voting for FF

I'd respect Gallaghers claim that he is entitled to be grassroots FF

- See your first quote above

[Evil Genius]

How do you work that one out? That sounds like something a treaty signing b**tard would say! Take it down from the mast you Brit loving ****!

I see you are new you will learn to ignore the posts of some who are partionist and generally rude about people from the North. They tend to be anti SF, selective in their view of events both in the present and in history. They act like "free staters" but hate the term and berate any one who uses it. But they have absolutely no problem referring to "nordies" in drogratory terms and like all pro treaty parties from the war of (partial) independance see the GFA as a reinforcement of partition.

Ah, so the new guy has to learn, does he (she?).

Does this mean there is a "Hierarchy of Posters" on this Board?

Speaking of which, I note that you are now completely ignoring our own previous exchange (Pg. 161, post # 2414), when in response to your claim that there should be "No hierarchy of victims and no one more to blame than the next and every single death is a tragedy",  I asked:

"Are you honestly trying to tell me that eg an eight year old girl blown to pieces whilst helping clean the windows in her parents' shop should be treated exactly the same as eg a bomber who blows himself up with his own device?

Was the death eg of Billy Wright a "tragedy"? And if so, does it rank exactly the same as the deaths of those poor terrified victims whom he murdered, for no other reason than that they were Catholics?"

Considering MMcG's association with at least some of the perpetrators of these vile acts, and your unequivocal support for him, I should be interested in hearing more...