The Race for the ARAS.....

[Applesisapples]

To be technically correct about this the British Government has reduced the NI Block Grant not SF or DUP. There is little or nothing they can do about it except try and make it stretch. The situation in the ROI is different and questions need to be asked as to why austerity measures are required, look no further than FF's profligate misuse of the Tiger Tax Take. I am no FG supporter but I don't believe that they have been left any choice but introduce these measures and that's were SF's argument is weak. But it is not just the political parties at fault, every single one of us in Ireland and in the UK were happy to spend the equity in over inflated property prices yes the political parties, ie Labour in GB and FF in Ireland should have been more careful but I can just hear the out cry that would have happened if in the Tiger years FF had talked about reducing the cost of property, reducing the governments pension liabilities and reducing the cost basis for business in terms of salaries and wages. The ROI priced it's self out of the market and NI was following hot on its heals but we were slower to start and the bubble burst sooner. Let he who is without econmomic sin cast the first stone.

[Declan]

every single one of us in Ireland and in the UK were happy to spend the equity in over inflated property price

eh hello - I know plenty of people who didn't so don't tar everyone with the same brush. Yes we need to address the shortfall between  income and expenditure but have people forgotten the hundreds of billions given to bail out the banks that caused the crisis in the first place.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

To be technically correct about this the British Government has reduced the NI Block Grant not SF or DUP. There is little or nothing they can do about it except try and make it stretch. The situation in the ROI is different and questions need to be asked as to why austerity measures are required, look no further than FF's profligate misuse of the Tiger Tax Take. I am no FG supporter but I don't believe that they have been left any choice but introduce these measures and that's were SF's argument is weak. But it is not just the political parties at fault, every single one of us in Ireland and in the UK were happy to spend the equity in over inflated property prices yes the political parties, ie Labour in GB and FF in Ireland should have been more careful but I can just hear the out cry that would have happened if in the Tiger years FF had talked about reducing the cost of property, reducing the governments pension liabilities and reducing the cost basis for business in terms of salaries and wages. The ROI priced it's self out of the market and NI was following hot on its heals but we were slower to start and the bubble burst sooner. Let he who is without econmomic sin cast the first stone.

Good post Appleisapples.

[Nally Stand]

Who is implementing austerity measures in the 6 counites of Ireland?

I always thought Ireland was 32 counties. Then you shower decided 26 would suffice. Then Gay Mitchel came along and announced he would be happy with 22 (under the British Commonwealth of course). But well done MGHU; you have now trumped all your fellow blueshirts with your "the 6 counties of Ireland" reference.

Though to answer your question, on the presumption that you are referring to the six north eastern counties, the answer is - the assembly. Which is due to cuts imposed on it by the tory government. You probably knew that I suppose but I just wouldn't have suited your argument to admit it.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Who is implementing austerity measures in the 6 counites of Ireland?

I always thought Ireland was 32 counties. Then you shower decided 26 would suffice. Then Gay Mitchel came along and announced he would be happy with 22 (under the British Commonwealth of course). But well done MGHU; you have now trumped all your fellow blueshirts with your "the 6 counties of Ireland" reference.

Though to answer your question, on the presumption that you are referring to the six north eastern counties, the answer is - the assembly. Which is due to cuts imposed on it by the tory government. You probably knew that I suppose but I just wouldn't have suited your argument to admit it.

Connacht are 5 counties of Ireland, Ulster are 9 counties of Ireland, Northern Ireland are 6 counties of Ireland, the Shannon Region is 2 full and 2 half counties of Ireland. Nothing wrong with any of those statements. You know very well "the" was a typo, much in the way Gay Mitchell said 22 and corrected himself. Of course you avoided the entire point, by trying to play on typo pedantics.

The Tory government imposed it, did they? Well perhaps if SF didn't want to administer these austerity measures they should have taken their own advice, that they directed at Labour in the Republic and stayed out of government. Fine Gael and Labour are no more to blame for austerity measures than SF, despite what the Shinners like to say.

Its funny how you argued before that the office of deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland was a position of greater power than that of the President of Ireland. Yet from your description, the Northern Assembly is little more than a glorified county council and Martin McGuinness is no more than a deputy Cathaoirleach.

Regarding your comments here about the British Commonwealth, about 2 years ago, I was lambasted by nationalists from the north on this board for saying I would not be willing to sarcrifice my republican values by joining a monarchical tiered commonwealth to achieve Irish unity. In fact it was their arguments that made me a little more sympathetic to the notion. Only because they made me feel a little selfish on not being wiilling to give up something for Irish unity and expecting all the changes be made by notherners. Now you come along and argue the opposite. Its hard to win with you lads. By the way I am still deeply opposed but more sympathetic to the idea (but not very much).

[armaghniac]

The economic austerity measures in the 26 counties are required because the the economic output has declined. While there is scope of debate on the details, pretending that you can just ignore this and spend away is nonsense. There is a real question as to how things got to this stage, but having reached this point you can only deal with it.

[sheamy]

Some crap on here.

Greed, neglect and a culture of corruption across FF, FG and the PDs led to the bankruptcy of the 26 counties and condemned many generations to the economic wilderness. Yes, the German and French financiers fuelled the fire but sure as long as the stamp duty keeps rolling in, who cares?

People elect the politicians they deserve. Remember Michael Lowry? Oh yeah, we don't need to remember him. He's still there!

When McGuinness suggests he played no role in this and was one of the only candidates to do so, he is correct. SF are outside the cosy corrupt consensus and are the only ones to be so. The only economic powers of any worth McGuinness has his hands on in the North are the ability to conduct trade missions to the US and other counties to try and bring jobs there. He has done this superbly. The Brits still call the shots with regard to a fixed budget as has been pointed out.

This is all getting a bit boring now. Just go and elect the Fianna Failer developer or the wee old man from the Labour party and return the Aras to the retirement home it was. We'll get back to normal then.

[Nally Stand]

Connacht are 5 counties of Ireland, Ulster are 9 counties of Ireland, Northern Ireland are 6 counties of Ireland, the Shannon Region is 2 full and 2 half counties of Ireland. Nothing wrong with any of those statements. You know very well "the" was a typo, much in the way Gay Mitchell said 22 and corrected himself. Of course you avoided the entire point, by trying to play on typo pedantics.

I was writing a tongue in cheek response to your obvious typo you clown. I don't think even you believes there are just 6 counties in Ireland.

The Tory government imposed it, did they? Well perhaps if SF didn't want to administer these austerity measures they should have taken their own advice, that they directed at Labour in the Republic and stayed out of government. Fine Gael and Labour are no more to blame for austerity measures than SF, despite what the Shinners like to say.

So Sinn Féin should help in the building of a peace process and bringing of stability and then just stay away? You'd like that wouldn't you. Sorry to disappoint.

Its funny how you argued before that the office of deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland was a position of greater power than that of the President of Ireland. Yet from your description, the Northern Assembly is little more than a glorified county council and Martin McGuinness is no more than a deputy Cathaoirleach.

Forgive me for stating the obvious in reply to you here, but it has vastly more power than the President's office has.


P.S. Did you ever manage to find out who all these six county Dana supporting posters were to back up your accusations of partitionism? Or can I now assume that you are now once again running away from the idea of backing up your sweeping generalisations; as you know full well you were talking through your hole?

[Nally Stand]

Some crap on here.

Greed, neglect and a culture of corruption across FF, FG and the PDs led to the bankruptcy of the 26 counties and condemned many generations to the economic wilderness. Yes, the German and French financiers fuelled the fire but sure as long as the stamp duty keeps rolling in, who cares?

People elect the politicians they deserve. Remember Michael Lowry? Oh yeah, we don't need to remember him. He's still there!

When McGuinness suggests he played no role in this and was one of the only candidates to do so, he is correct. SF are outside the cosy corrupt consensus and are the only ones to be so. The only economic powers of any worth McGuinness has his hands on in the North are the ability to conduct trade missions to the US and other counties to try and bring jobs there. He has done this superbly. The Brits still call the shots with regard to a fixed budget as has been pointed out.

This is all getting a bit boring now. Just go and elect the Fianna Failer developer or the wee old man from the Labour party and return the Aras to the retirement home it was. We'll get back to normal then.

Summed up perfectly.

[Declan]

When McGuinness suggests he played no role in this and was one of the only candidates to do so, he is correct

Are you saying because Dana was an MEP she was part of it as well?

pretending that you can just ignore this and spend away is nonsense

I wasn't pretending that we could spend away I was counteracting your statement that "we all partied" to quote another great patriot

[sheamy]

When McGuinness suggests he played no role in this and was one of the only candidates to do so, he is correct

Are you saying because Dana was an MEP she was part of it as well?

I believe 'was one of the...' doesn't exclude the Creggan songstress

[Evil Genius]

MMcG expressed no remorse at the time of the bombing, which is universally believed to have been carried out by the Derry Brigade of the IRA, of which he was then either OC or 2OC.

He has never unequivocally condemned the carnage, either. (In fact, I don't think he has even accepted that it was the Provos who did it).

And he has done precisely nothing to assist in helping the grieving relatives achieve closure etc, by investigating exactly who was responsible.

Therefore in judging MMcG's words from 1972 in the light of Claudy, just one atrocity amongst many from that time, you might be happy to conclude that "Attitudes change. Opinions change. That's life".

But here is my conclusion. If McMG has any regrets about his role in the murder of hundreds of innocent Irish people committed by the IRA, it is only that the "Armed Struggle" [sic] did not succeed in its stated aim of driving the Brits out of Ireland etc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzvpMlHuIrs&feature=related

And that the only reason he turned to "Peace", was because he finally realised that far from uniting Ireland, the campaign was only serving to drive an ever deeper wedge between the various peoples of Ireland, with ever decreasing hope of some sort of military success. Therefore he betrayed all the principles (and comrades) he had formerly sworn to uphold and instead engaged in a process of collaboration with his erstwhile enemies, solely for the political advantage that this might bring him and his party.

For just as a Leopard may not change its spots, so a vicious, murderous, pyschopathic c u n t  may never fully expunge the dark poison which festers deep within him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE

reminds me a bit of yourself eg - for the above rubbish you wrote is yet another yawn.

Ah, so someone pointing to an episode of the mass murder of entirely innocent Irish men, women and children is tiresome, eh? Just how callous do you have to be to be a SF Republican?

this time you use the claudy bombing to attempt and leverage a rant at mcguinness. shame on you.

I know, it's terrible really. A candidate for high public office is connected to a vile atrocity where inter alia  small children were blown to pieces and 39 years later, it's all people seem to want to talk about. How unfair is that?
You know, it's beginning to make me feel sorry for this other misunderstood patriot, demonised by shameful enemies solely for standing up for his people in the face of foreign aggression:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratko_Mladi%C4%87

Then again, it's all about me and my "shame", isn't it? Why play the ball when you can play the man, eh? Isn't that Tactic No.1 in the "Big Shinner Book of Excuses"? Well done.

are you going to try and link the shooting of jfk on him next - just because he didnt publicly condemn it ?

As far as I am aware, it wasn't the Derry Brigade of the IRA who murdered Kennedy, and even if it had, MMcG could point out that he was 13 and 5,000 miles away at the time.

So I don't think it quite compares with an atrocity like Claudy, 35 miles from Derry, carried out by the Derry Brigade of the IRA in 1972, when MMcG has admitted he was an active and leading member of that Brigade, does it?

Still, by throwing JFK into the mix, you've managed to employ Tactic No. 2 in the "Big Shinner Book" i.e. when pressed directly on something you'd rather not admit to, deflect from it, if necessary by using completely wild and inappropriate examples. Well done again.

yer some clown.

Maybe I am, but I'd rather be a "clown" than some callous fcuker who defends a sc**bag like MMcG when he says things like:
"... we have always given ample warnings [of car bombs] and anyone was hurt was hurt through their own fault, being too nosy, sticking around the place where the bomb was after they were told to get clear. It's only been their own fault that they got hurt".

Or didn't you read the account of the deaths of some of the victims at Claudy?
Eight-year-old Kathryn was cleaning the windows of her family's shop when the first bomb went off. She died instantly. Her mother, Merle, saw a bomber leave what would be the second bomb beside their shop, not knowing what horror it would bring to her family. "When he stepped out of that car, he saw Kathryn standing at that window," she said. "He should have shouted at her. But he didn't, he just walked away."

David died when the third bomb outside the Beaufort Hotel exploded. He was 60-years-old. He had helped the injured after the first explosion, but when the second device was discovered by police he, along with many others, was directed into the path of the third explosion.

Sixty-five-year-old James was also instantly killed as the third bomb exploded. He too had been helping the injured after the first explosion.

William, 16, had travelled to Claudy from Donemana in County Tyrone. He was a milkman's helper and his round included the village. He had been injured by the first explosion, but was killed instantly in the third.

Their own fault, eh?

People like you make me sick.

[muppet]

Some crap on here.

Greed, neglect and a culture of corruption across FF, FG and the PDs led to the bankruptcy of the 26 counties and condemned many generations to the economic wilderness. Yes, the German and French financiers fuelled the fire but sure as long as the stamp duty keeps rolling in, who cares?

People elect the politicians they deserve. Remember Michael Lowry? Oh yeah, we don't need to remember him. He's still there!

When McGuinness suggests he played no role in this and was one of the only candidates to do so, he is correct. SF are outside the cosy corrupt consensus and are the only ones to be so. The only economic powers of any worth McGuinness has his hands on in the North are the ability to conduct trade missions to the US and other counties to try and bring jobs there. He has done this superbly. The Brits still call the shots with regard to a fixed budget as has been pointed out.

This is all getting a bit boring now. Just go and elect the Fianna Failer developer or the wee old man from the Labour party and return the Aras to the retirement home it was. We'll get back to normal then.

This is just silly. If this is true: 'the German and French financiers fuelled the fire but sure as long as the stamp duty keeps rolling in' then the blame can only be laid at the door of those who were in power at the time and spent the stamp duty. That would be FF/PD with a little garnish of Green, Healy-Rae and Lowry etc.

Somehow you then blame FG for this. The justification seems to be the existence of Lowry, a bad egg without question, but a bad egg who was supporting FF when 'the German and French financiers fuelled the fire' FG  were in opposition when the stamp duty was being spent, so were SF but of course: 'SF are outside the cosy corrupt consensus and are the only ones to be so.'

You can't have it both ways, if FG are to be condemned for being in opposition during the waste, then SF should be hung from the same poll.

And as for SF claiming the high moral ground over the 'cozy corrupt consensus' that is, according to you, all politics in the south, gimme a break.

[Applesisapples]

EG if you want to be truly balanced you need to look objectively at all the atrocities committed in Ireland, and where do you stop? But of course like some of your adversaries on here you only want to post on those atrocities that affected your community and which support your view of Martin McGuiness. It really is time to draw a line, there really isn't any single point of responsibility for what happened in the past. No hierarchy of victims and no one more to blame than the next and every single death is a tragedy.

[sheamy]

This is just silly. If this is true: 'the German and French financiers fuelled the fire but sure as long as the stamp duty keeps rolling in' then the blame can only be laid at the door of those who were in power at the time and spent the stamp duty. That would be FF/PD with a little garnish of Green, Healy-Rae and Lowry etc.

Somehow you then blame FG for this. The justification seems to be the existence of Lowry, a bad egg without question, but a bad egg who was supporting FF when 'the German and French financiers fuelled the fire' FG  were in opposition when the stamp duty was being spent, so were SF but of course: 'SF are outside the cosy corrupt consensus and are the only ones to be so.'

You can't have it both ways, if FG are to be condemned for being in opposition during the waste, then SF should be hung from the same poll.

And as for SF claiming the high moral ground over the 'cozy corrupt consensus' that is, according to you, all politics in the south, gimme a break.

You can stick your head in the sand and call it silly if you want. It's reality.

Was there or was there not a cosy middle class consensus comprising primarily of FF, FG and PD voters occupying the same right/middle spectrum in this country over the past 10 years?

FG cannot absolve itself of all knowledge or blame. Who shouted stop? Again, I say they were all drunk on stamp duty and golf club memberships. I am very very well aware of the culture that existed at the time in financial insitutions which were run on a cross political party carve-up basis. The Dail was a side-show and a back slapping parlour to the real 'business' of the country. The captains of industry. Well, those captains have well and truly sunk the f*ckin boat now.

Q. What was Alan Dukes doing during this period? ANGLO IRISH BANK CHAIRMAN
Q. What party is he from? A. Fine Gael

Put it this way, I don't think there were many Sinn Fein voters on the boards and senior management of BOI, AIB, Anglo Irish or Irish Nationwide.