The Race for the ARAS.....

[sans pessimism]

I'd be very interested indeed in a debate around the vision each has, their standing on the world stage, and what message or theme each would pursue. I fear that's too much too expect though.

Well, I'm sure Michael D was a bit embarrassed by all the focus on his standing in the tv debate

Does any one think he  looks a little like Dustin the Turk

[Harold Disgracey]

An interesting piece from Niall O'Dowd.


Irish govt attacks on McGuinness will rebound with Clintons, leading Americans -- Short sighted assault to cost support in America
By: Niall O'Dowd
Published Monday, October 3, 2011, 6:25 AM
Updated Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 10:27 AM

Fine Gael attacks on Sinn Fein presidential candidate Martin McGuinness will reflect badly on them in America.

They appear to be desperate attempts to try and build law and order vote support for their candidate Gay Mitchell who is foundering in the opinion polls.

It may well end up not helping Mitchell and damaging Irish government and Irish American relationships.

The claim that the election of McGuinness would somehow damage Ireland's economic prospects among American business is ludicrous and will be seen as such over here.

Martin McGuinness is very well known and deeply respected in American business circles since he became Northern Ireland's Deputy First minister four year ago.

He has a particularly good relationship with Hillary Clinton the Secretary of State and with her husband, Bill Clinton.

One wonders what Bill Clinton will make of the vilification of McGuinness when he is in Dublin this week for the Irish Diaspora forum.

McGuinness is widely respected by them and a slew of leading Americans for his work on bringing peace to Northern Ireland, a far greater accomplishment than any his detractors have ever aspired to.

He has delivered on many key meetings and helped bring major investment to the North.

There are legitimate questions that can be asked about his IRA past but talking of future impeachment, arrest and denigrating his undeniable role in bringing peace to Ireland is way over the top.

The notion of portraying him as an unrepentant terrorist who would spook American investors is just plain stupid.

It also raises questions about whether this Irish government really cares or knows about the compact that has brought Irish America, Sinn Fein and successive Irish governments together.

It was created in order for the Irish peace process to succeed, for a united front that could speak to successive White Houses and key political supporters with one voice.

That contrasted greatly with past experiences where elements in Irish America opposed the Irish government tooth and nail and caused massive friction with them.

There were often tensions between the various parties since they began working together but a way to resolve them was always found.

The attacks on McGuinness are sure to unsettle the relationship as Sinn Fein's counter charges about 'black propaganda' are bound to resonate with many Irish Americans.

The Fine Gael attacks are the worst kind of short sighted and deeply flawed political thinking.

[Hound]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.

The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Mandela is a much better comparison than Collins. The difference with Mandela is we know more about Mandela's actions because he was in jail for so long. We don't know what McGuinness did in the 20 years after 1974, though I'm not sure that it matters, other than it forces him to tell lies.

[AQMP]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.

The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Mandela is a much better comparison than Collins. The difference with Mandela is we know more about Mandela's actions because he was in jail for so long. We don't know what McGuinness did in the 20 years after 1974, though I'm not sure that it matters, other than it forces him to tell lies.

Maybe so, but McGuinness had left them long before that happened

[Ulick]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.

The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Yer oul hole. The Collins IRA exceeded the modern IRA in every aspect of "crime and killing".

[AQMP]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.
The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Mandela is a much better comparison than Collins. The difference with Mandela is we know more about Mandela's actions because he was in jail for so long. We don't know what McGuinness did in the 20 years after 1974, though I'm not sure that it matters, other than it forces him to tell lies.

Cue another 121 pages!

[glens abu]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.
The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Mandela is a much better comparison than Collins. The difference with Mandela is we know more about Mandela's actions because he was in jail for so long. We don't know what McGuinness did in the 20 years after 1974, though I'm not sure that it matters, other than it forces him to tell lies.

Cue another 121 pages!

Nah I agree with Ulick "his oul hole"

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I don't know but I fear a resurgent wave of sympathy towards Dana if this mudslinging continues against the saintly one.


How does Michael D manage to keep aloof from the 'foibles' of the Labour party? If he were still a viable ministerial candidate, he would be in the present government, backing the bank guarantee with his ministerial sword, faster than you can say Joan Burton.

Like the deputy first minister of the North, slashing and burning on behalf of her Majesties government. 

Lawnseed its going to be Micheal D. Higgins, accept it and move it on, the shinner will be back in Stormont where he belongs when this is all over.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.

The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Yer oul hole. The Collins IRA exceeded the modern IRA in every aspect of "crime and killing".

Bless the heroes who blow up pubs in England, silence the unwanted in the North and shoot the procetors of the peace in the Republic.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

An interesting piece from Niall O'Dowd.


Irish govt attacks on McGuinness will rebound with Clintons, leading Americans -- Short sighted assault to cost support in America
By: Niall O'Dowd
Published Monday, October 3, 2011, 6:25 AM
Updated Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 10:27 AM

Fine Gael attacks on Sinn Fein presidential candidate Martin McGuinness will reflect badly on them in America.

They appear to be desperate attempts to try and build law and order vote support for their candidate Gay Mitchell who is foundering in the opinion polls.

It may well end up not helping Mitchell and damaging Irish government and Irish American relationships.

The claim that the election of McGuinness would somehow damage Ireland's economic prospects among American business is ludicrous and will be seen as such over here.

Martin McGuinness is very well known and deeply respected in American business circles since he became Northern Ireland's Deputy First minister four year ago.

He has a particularly good relationship with Hillary Clinton the Secretary of State and with her husband, Bill Clinton.

One wonders what Bill Clinton will make of the vilification of McGuinness when he is in Dublin this week for the Irish Diaspora forum.

McGuinness is widely respected by them and a slew of leading Americans for his work on bringing peace to Northern Ireland, a far greater accomplishment than any his detractors have ever aspired to.

He has delivered on many key meetings and helped bring major investment to the North.

There are legitimate questions that can be asked about his IRA past but talking of future impeachment, arrest and denigrating his undeniable role in bringing peace to Ireland is way over the top.

The notion of portraying him as an unrepentant terrorist who would spook American investors is just plain stupid.

It also raises questions about whether this Irish government really cares or knows about the compact that has brought Irish America, Sinn Fein and successive Irish governments together.

It was created in order for the Irish peace process to succeed, for a united front that could speak to successive White Houses and key political supporters with one voice.

That contrasted greatly with past experiences where elements in Irish America opposed the Irish government tooth and nail and caused massive friction with them.

There were often tensions between the various parties since they began working together but a way to resolve them was always found.

The attacks on McGuinness are sure to unsettle the relationship as Sinn Fein's counter charges about 'black propaganda' are bound to resonate with many Irish Americans.

The Fine Gael attacks are the worst kind of short sighted and deeply flawed political thinking.

The Yanks always had a soft spot for supporting terrorists.

[lawnseed]

true mghu. the yanks love terrorists. at the moment they have a military presence in 161 countries and have brought down democratically elected governments globally. their banks have bankrupted the world and their government policy of protectionism has cause food shortages worldwide by their own admission pot kettle etc

[sheamy]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.

The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Mandela is a much better comparison than Collins. The difference with Mandela is we know more about Mandela's actions because he was in jail for so long. We don't know what McGuinness did in the 20 years after 1974, though I'm not sure that it matters, other than it forces him to tell lies.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Collins directed and led operations to shoot men in their beds, at their work, on the streets and anyway else. He ordered take no prisoners. The genocide carried out in west cork of protestant families and land owners is something you should do some research into before you come on talking nonsense.

As for so-called criminality (thatcher would be proud of you), how did Collins and the lads fund their operations? Bingo? Skibbereen does X-factor? Think about it.

The provos took their tactics and inspiration from the 'old ira'. Dan Breen, Tom Barry etc etc. They were heroes to the provos in the way they carried out operations. They were brutal men. Now either oppose the whole thing from start to finish, a position which I will have some respect for, or stay quiet.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Dana has pledged to alligence to another country and rejected her loyalty to Ireland, its armed forces, its people and its institutions. It should matter llittle that under our laws she can hold dual citizenship, the fact that she has declared herself no longer loyal to Ireland means she is not acceptable as the President of our country. + she is a religious fruitcake. She is a fecking US pawn with a Yank agenda to bring down the E.U. I am Irish and I am European and damn proud of both and I don't want this Yank as my president.

[trileacman]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.

The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Mandela is a much better comparison than Collins. The difference with Mandela is we know more about Mandela's actions because he was in jail for so long. We don't know what McGuinness did in the 20 years after 1974, though I'm not sure that it matters, other than it forces him to tell lies.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Collins directed and led operations to shoot men in their beds, at their work, on the streets and anyway else. He ordered take no prisoners. The genocide carried out in west cork of protestant families and land owners is something you should do some research into before you come on talking nonsense.

As for so-called criminality (thatcher would be proud of you), how did Collins and the lads fund their operations? Bingo? Skibbereen does X-factor? Think about it.

The provos took their tactics and inspiration from the 'old ira'. Dan Breen, Tom Barry etc etc. They were heroes to the provos in the way they carried out operations. They were brutal men. Now either oppose the whole thing from start to finish, a position which I will have some respect for, or stay quiet.

Out of interest do you oppose the whole thing from start to finish or are you going to try to sit on a fence and justify it?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Personally think that linking McGuinness in the Provisional IRA to the likes of Michael Collins in the Old IRA is nauseating.

The provos became more about crime and killing than freedom fighting. The truth of the matter, and the positive for McGuinness, is he eventually broke away from the terrorists and subsequently played a huge part in the peace process. Many provos accuse him and Adams of selling them out.

Mandela is a much better comparison than Collins. The difference with Mandela is we know more about Mandela's actions because he was in jail for so long. We don't know what McGuinness did in the 20 years after 1974, though I'm not sure that it matters, other than it forces him to tell lies.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Collins directed and led operations to shoot men in their beds, at their work, on the streets and anyway else. He ordered take no prisoners. The genocide carried out in west cork of protestant families and land owners is something you should do some research into before you come on talking nonsense.

As for so-called criminality (thatcher would be proud of you), how did Collins and the lads fund their operations? Bingo? Skibbereen does X-factor? Think about it.

The provos took their tactics and inspiration from the 'old ira'. Dan Breen, Tom Barry etc etc. They were heroes to the provos in the way they carried out operations. They were brutal men. Now either oppose the whole thing from start to finish, a position which I will have some respect for, or stay quiet.

Out of interest do you oppose the whole thing from start to finish or are you going to try to sit on a fence and justify it?

Of course we could pus the dates back to show how the United Kingdom of GB & Ireland should never have been formed in the first place.