Willie Frazer threatens protests and riots if not allowed see Queen in Dublin

[MW]

Indeed, "respectable" unionism's opposition to loyalist violence was half-hearted at best and fake at worst. Any description of loyalist violence was always explained in terms of being "in retaliation for" some republican atrocity, the implication being that it was really republicans who were responsible for loyalist violence - the old "complicit victim" fallacy. 

That's quite simply not true.

Yes it is.

Do you really need me to make an idiot of you even further by trawling up more quotes?

[MW]

While I'm at it, I can't recall any constitutional Unionist politician, church big wig or personality of any sort, ever speaking out to condemn the actions of any Loyalist paramilitaries or their fellow-travellers  from Burntollet onwards to recent times.
I know that the vast majority of Unionists have no time for  the head cases in their midst but it might be nice, once in a while, to make this clear to all concerned. At the very least, it would be a tacit sign  of acknowledgement  that their Nationalist counterparts aren't the only ones who have to put up with loonies trying to act on their behalf.

Are you seriously telling us that you can't actually recall any of the dondemnations of loyalist terrorism made by unionist politicians or Protestant church leaders?

That beggars belief.

[MW]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1570317.stm "The leader of the Ulster Unionist Party and Upper Bann MLA, David Trimble condemned the murder and offered his sympathies to the O'Hagan family. "I am shocked and appalled by this cowardly act, which must be condemned by all right-thinking people."...


Hansard, 1 Nov 1993: Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North) : I should like to associate myself with what the hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume) said in condemning without reservation all the murders that have been taking place in our land. There is no difference between the tears of Protestants and the tears of Roman Catholics. These murders come from hell and lead to hell and there can be no justification for them on any grounds whatever.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1161711.stm The Presbyterian Moderator, Dr Trevor Morrow, has condemned the wave of recent pipe bomb attacks as a ''moral outrage''. He accused the pipe bombers of having a ''reign of terror'' and spoke of his disgust at the attacks. "This is black and white. This is not just wrong this is evil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1065133.stm Church of Ireland Bishop of Derry and Raphoe Dr James Mehaffey condemned the attack as "immoral and objectionable".

[lawnseed]

during the recent bomb attack in newtownhamilton there were very poor diversions in place and i had the misfortune to meet the boul willie on a single track road. i was in an artic and he was in his car he'd just passed a good wide entrance to a farm.. all he had to do was reverse about 30m. he sat in the middle of the road and turned the car off had to wait on the cops..

[Nally Stand]

during the recent bomb attack in newtownhamilton there were very poor diversions in place and i had the misfortune to meet the boul willie on a single track road. i was in an artic and he was in his car he'd just passed a good wide entrance to a farm.. all he had to do was reverse about 30m. he sat in the middle of the road and turned the car off had to wait on the cops..

He probably has a FAIR Media youtube video about you now!

[Banana Man]

during the recent bomb attack in newtownhamilton there were very poor diversions in place and i had the misfortune to meet the boul willie on a single track road. i was in an artic and he was in his car he'd just passed a good wide entrance to a farm.. all he had to do was reverse about 30m. he sat in the middle of the road and turned the car off had to wait on the cops..

i just hope you've done your CPE training to keep the class 1 licence ya boy ya or willie will report ya

[Lar Naparka]

While I'm at it, I can't recall any constitutional Unionist politician, church big wig or personality of any sort, ever speaking out to condemn the actions of any Loyalist paramilitaries or their fellow-travellers  from Burntollet onwards to recent times.
I know that the vast majority of Unionists have no time for  the head cases in their midst but it might be nice, once in a while, to make this clear to all concerned. At the very least, it would be a tacit sign  of acknowledgement  that their Nationalist counterparts aren't the only ones who have to put up with loonies trying to act on their behalf.

Are you seriously telling us that you can't actually recall any of the dondemnations of loyalist terrorism made by unionist politicians or Protestant church leaders?

That beggars belief.

Actually, I was.
I did not, at the time of writing, recall any such condemnations.
That may come across as a case of pedantic semantics to you but that was not my intention at all. The honourable gentlemen you mentioned may have issued other statements during the course of a thirty years conflict but they seemed to make no impression on the public mood. Words were not followed by actions.
I try not to get involved in whataboutery of any sort but I will mention that the same can be said of numerous representatives on the Nationalist side; pious platitudes followed by lack of action.
I did recall your quote from Paisley but I chose to ignore it. As he never accepted his part in the violence that led to British troops being called in to restore order, I took it with a pinch of salt. 

I accept he proved his credential as a man of peace in the negotiations that led to the GFA and in the period since but at that time, his condemnation sounded hollow. Gerry and Marty; they and a good number of others have never admitted their involvement in sectarian strife and, until thy do, there will be hurt felt by  people on the Unionist side.
I had written: "I've no doubt that most people on 'your'' side of the fence do not support extremists but, equally, they never seem to go to any lengths to denounce them either."
I do recall an incident at Hillsborough where David Trimble and a number of other Unionist representatives were being interviewed. I think it happened in the lead up to negotiations that were to set up the Peace Process but a t this remove in time, I can' be sure.
Anyway, it was instructive to watch the face of David Trimble as he stood in the background while one of the paramilitary spokesmen was talking to the interviewer. The body language told a lot.
He loathed the guy and all that he stood for.
It was picked up by the media in the south and internationally also.
The general consensus was that, while Trimble and those he represented would hold no truck with Loyalist paramilitaries, the great pity was that he never, publicly at least, went no further than pious platitudes.
Tomorrow, the Queen is due in Dublin.
I feel that the vast majority of people down here welcome her arrival. Maybe there is no wild enthusiasm evident but I'd say most are waiting to hear what she is going to say before rushing to judgement.
Given that, she is arriving on the anniversary of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and that she is going to visit Croke Park, the expectation is that she is going to make some move to improve relations between both countries.
Unfortunately, the likelihood is that there will be trouble.
You may take it that the public here don't want the likes of Eirigi and the Real IRA causing trouble.
If Willie shows up to provide a counterweight to those loonies, it will be evident to all that, for some, the GFA is dead in the water. Obviously, there are only a tiny percentage of the people on this island who think like that but they do exist and they are to be found in both communities.
If representatives of mainstream Unionism publicly disassociated themselves from Willie & Co. it would help to keep the peace.

[lawnseed]

during the recent bomb attack in newtownhamilton there were very poor diversions in place and i had the misfortune to meet the boul willie on a single track road. i was in an artic and he was in his car he'd just passed a good wide entrance to a farm.. all he had to do was reverse about 30m. he sat in the middle of the road and turned the car off had to wait on the cops..

i just hope you've done your CPE training to keep the class 1 licence ya boy ya or willie will report ya

if he ever meets mrs lawnseed he should kneel down and thank her.. before i got married i wouldnt have been as polite as i am now

[MW]

I accept that unlike Eamonnica1, you're not setting up false dichotomies to "confirm" some paranoid and prejudiced worldview. But I think there is a tendency in NI for memory to become subject to a "confirmation bias".
I would accept that at times unionist politicians have been too close in word or event to loyalist terrorists or their spokesmen. They should never have done so. However a look back at any newspaper from the times of various loyalist murders would demonstrate regular condemnations of loyalist terrorism. (I have to say I was particularly surprised by the fact you couldn't remember condemnations of loyalist terrorism by Protestant church leaders – these have been particularly forthright and consistent).
I'm sure there is just the same "confirmatory bias" tendency from unionists as regards nationalist politicians and parties too.
I think strangely enough in NI some events and words tend to get forgotten quickly, while others that probably never actually happened become "fact" and even make it into the history books ("IRA I ran away" graffiti in 1969 for one) – who now remembers the Orange Order responding to the "Harryville protest" by staging a counter-demonstration beside the church with the banner "Orangemen support civil and religious liberty for all"...?

[Eamonnca1]

You claimed that republicans were always referred to as terrorists, and loyalists as paramilitaries.

Okay then, they were predominantly referred to as such.  There, happy now?