Is the end of the Union in sight? (It may well be but then again…)

[dillinger]

Din't say they can't seek Ind. from GB. Salmon said 8-9 years before they vote on it, or that's what his party wants. Why so long? I had a look at Scottish forum about this and it's about 4 to 1 infavour of the union. And that seems to me a bit strange during to so many voting for the SNP.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Yeah, I'd say it's a bit of a mixed bag for them at the minute.

8 to 9 years seems a bit far out though, since the SNP have always had that as a major plank of their electoral platform.

[armaghniac]

In Scotland, no less than in NI, people will not vote for uncertainty. A lot of detail is needed to ensure a measure of clarity on which to vote. London won't play ball with this. Salmond is one of the most able politicos in these islands, he'll use the lack of detail and London's refusal to provide it as a reason to delay things, putting the unionists in the bad light all the time.

[dillinger]

Can Scotland ever aford to go it alone? Don't know how much oil money is left. Is this oil money even theirs, or do some company own it?

[Maguire01]

I had a look at Scottish forum about this and it's about 4 to 1 infavour of the union. And that seems to me a bit strange during to so many voting for the SNP.

It could be the same here - people voting SDLP and even SF because they feel they represent them in the current constitutional arrangements. It may not transfer directly to a 'yes' border poll.

[dillinger]

Can any off  Rep of Ireland, N. Ire, Scotland, Wales truly go or exist as an truly  independant country at this time. No i think. They all need the big friendly cousion near us to keep us right. Yes we all have the EC,

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

There is no way Westminister will let scotland go, not until the north sea is drained of

"... Oil".

Obviously.

For whatever else, the British aren't complete idiots. Then again, after 800 years of being "oppressed" by them us, you probably know that...

No need to use quotation marks, it is a reality, it did happen.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Can any off  Rep of Ireland, N. Ire, Scotland, Wales truly go or exist as an truly  independant country at this time. No i think. They all need the big friendly cousion near us to keep us right. Yes we all have the EC,

Sure England is being proped up by the Irish taxpayer 

[Evil Genius]

Unionism is an ideology which no right-thinking person could properly endorse.

Unionism is the continuation of the British conquest of Ireland and the Plantation of Ulster. No moral person can support conquest followed by ethnic cleansing.

One of the most insidious ideas around is that Unionism and Nationalism are somehow morally equivalent, or even the idea put forward for so long that unionism is somehow right and people wrong to oppose it. There is no moral equivalence between wanting to conquer another country and wanting to end that state of affairs. You can have moral criticism of acts committed in pursuit of Irish nationalism, but the cause is just, which is not the case for unionism.

Preach it, brother!

What's worse than this false moral equivalence between unionism and nationalism is the idea that nationalism is the immoral doctrine and unionism is the moral one. The reverse is true.

Am I to take it from prejudiced ranting such as the above, that neither you nor Armaghniac supports the GFA?

For it refers inter alia  to:

[all] our continuing, and equally legitimate, political aspirations
[participants] recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;
the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union
[Government] shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities;
[participants] recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose

And if you no longer accept the principles underpinning the GFA, who gets your allegiance now, TUV or the Dissidents? 


 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Unionism is an ideology which no right-thinking person could properly endorse.

Unionism is the continuation of the British conquest of Ireland and the Plantation of Ulster. No moral person can support conquest followed by ethnic cleansing.

One of the most insidious ideas around is that Unionism and Nationalism are somehow morally equivalent, or even the idea put forward for so long that unionism is somehow right and people wrong to oppose it. There is no moral equivalence between wanting to conquer another country and wanting to end that state of affairs. You can have moral criticism of acts committed in pursuit of Irish nationalism, but the cause is just, which is not the case for unionism.

Preach it, brother!

What's worse than this false moral equivalence between unionism and nationalism is the idea that nationalism is the immoral doctrine and unionism is the moral one. The reverse is true.

Am I to take it from prejudiced ranting such as the above, that neither you nor Armaghniac supports the GFA?

For it refers inter alia  to:

[all] our continuing, and equally legitimate, political aspirations
[participants] recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;
the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union
[Government] shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities;
[participants] recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose

And if you no longer accept the principles underpinning the GFA, who gets your allegiance now, TUV or the Dissidents? 

Was out drinking with a 2 mates of mine and one of their mates from Northern Ireland. One of my mates was an Englishlad the other an Irish girl (N.I. Unionist). Myself and the Englishlad couldn't help smirking all night as our mate kept referring to back home as "Ireland, err am Northern Ireland" and Irish as "Irish, err am Northern Irish". She very very very rarely adds the Northern when drinking over here, but sure on front of the friend from back home she had to put on the show of adding the Northern. Her friend asked her at one stage "why she was talking like that" when my mate from N.I. referred to "the British" in the third person. Just seemed to me the Northern Irish identity seemed like hard work for her, when being Irish was so much more natural.

[lawnseed]

all the snp have to do is put Braveheart on every night 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

all the snp have to do is put Braveheart on every night 

Braveheart is a pile of balls. The Bruces were tits too, they invade Ireland to liberate it, me hole, the men of Connacht weren't to fall for their shite like the boyos up in Ulster.

[Eamonnca1]

And if you no longer accept the principles underpinning the GFA, who gets your allegiance now, TUV or the Dissidents? 

Thanks for misrepresenting me again, EG. Are you really trying to tell me that I have to lick unionism's boots or else I'm with the dissidents? My view is that partition is a wrong that needs to be corrected, but in the meantime I'm willing to put up with it in the name of keeping the peace and taking time to persuade enough of your crowd out of their bigoted ways. My views are 100% compatible with the GFA.

[Lar Naparka]

Hi EG,
As far as I rcall, you stated once that you would not be averse to the idea of a UI under certain circumstances.
(I hope I got that right.)
Could you elaborate on this? This is just a matter of personal curiosity.

[HiMucker]

And if you no longer accept the principles underpinning the GFA, who gets your allegiance now, TUV or the Dissidents? 

Thanks for misrepresenting me again, EG. Are you really trying to tell me that I have to lick unionism's boots or else I'm with the dissidents? My view is that partition is a wrong that needs to be corrected, but in the meantime I'm willing to put up with it in the name of keeping the peace and taking time to persuade enough of your crowd out of their bigoted ways. My views are 100% compatible with the GFA.

Aye EG, I would whole heartedly agree with the views of Eamon here, and don't see any bigotry or problem in it.
The union is wrong, but there is no point crying over spilt milk.  Many Nations today have their formation built on blood and tyranny of the past.  We are where we are and that is a place of equal opportunities and rights for all people in the north.  If a united Ireland is only achieved when the majority votes for it I am happy with that, were it be tommorrow  or in a thousand years time.  Whatever the legitimacy of unionist parties now (as they are greatly needed as they represent the majority of people in the north) the foundation of their existence is morally flawed and it is not bigotry to state this.  Much in the same way Americans calling a native Indian a bigot for claiming that their land was stolen is nonsensical