Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...

[brokencrossbar1]

Hound of Ulster I don't know how much you've coached or played but I believe we have molly coddled our kids at under age for too long.  I am a father of 3 so I know what it is to look after the needs of kids.  There is a need, in my view, to look at things differently. That is my view, I don't care who agrees with it. It only seems patronising to people who have an openess to be patronised.

[brokencrossbar1]

Hound I am saying because I am drinking I can't work out the quote function. I still will stand ovet what I post no matter what I say. I don't agree with the Go Games, whether I stand alone or have 100 posters behind me does not change my opinions.  I will not crawl and hide behind a pseudonym, many on the board know me and I will happily post who I am as I believe in what I say. I understand where you're coming from, I just don't agree with it.

[hound of ulster]

Ive plenty of experience of all including being a father , but thankfully i accept that i dont have all the answers as a coach or a parent , But then again i havent been a winner "All" my life . Sorry ive got to go to bed, Ive got to get up and try and help a bunch of fat kids become better footballers,   

[David McKeown]

On the idea of the fat kid, what if he turns out to be the player with all the ball skills and technique but is lost to the game because at 9 years old he didn't have the fitness to play is it not better to have a system thai incorporates and allows for his physical development.

To give an example I coach an under 11's team and there is a fat kid on that team who has always been a competent defender at training not our best defender but always solid. For the first 6 months he really struggled in full sized matches but we persevered with him and kept ensuring he had as much game time as all the other kids who were performing much better. We also continued to focus on basic skills in SSG's in training. This drew an awful lot of criticism from many of the parents as it meant we lost quite a few games. About three months ago we found out the fat kid suffers from aspergers and can't comprehend offside we made adjustments for that in how we coached him. In the last 12 games he's played not a single goal has come down his side and he is second in the team in assists, we are coincidentally currently on a 12 match unbeaten run. I'm not taking any credit for this improvement but his dad approached us a few weeks to tell us he now thinks the so called fat kid is a better player now than his brother was at the same age. It was only at that point that his dad informed us the older brother plays for Glenavons first team. Oh and the dad is a full time football coach within the IFA and a professional football scout.  If we had followed the win at all costs play your best team philosophy I'm 100% sure 'the fat kid' wouldn't have developed as much and we wouldn't play as good football as a team.

I'm not saying your philosophy is wrong but from my own experience and research I think go-games are the way forward. Improving the standard of everyone will have the knock on effect of improving the standard of the best players but it will take time and IMO ultimately benefit the game

[brokencrossbar1]

O Neill maybe I am looking at it from a fortunate position but how did I get to that position? My team mates and I thought differently. We were no more special in terms of ability than Ayrfield, East Kerry and whatever area stephenite is from. The difference is from 10 years of age we believed we were the best.  1 man is responsible for that. Maybe he was lucky that we came along, or more likely we we're lucky to have him as a coach. That sense now permeates the club. I am happy that the rest of Ireland accepts Go Games as the way forward, from a selfish point of view. We'll do things our way if that is ok?

[stephenite]

O Neill maybe I am looking at it from a fortunate position but how did I get to that position? My team mates and I thought differently. We were no more special in terms of ability than Ayrfield, East Kerry and whatever area stephenite is from. The difference is from 10 years of age we believed we were the best.  1 man is responsible for that. Maybe he was lucky that we came along, or more likely we we're lucky to have him as a coach. That sense now permeates the club. I am happy that the rest of Ireland accepts Go Games as the way forward, from a selfish point of view. We'll do things our way if that is ok?

We showed up that weekend, a group of 17 lads who at 11 and 12 years of age from a small area (we were the full quota of our age group, not one from the area was left behind) who believed that we were the best. We weren't, but that didn't matter, mind you, we didn't have a 6ft 2" pretending to be 12 either

[thewobbler]

From my perspective, playing football at any sort of level is only partly down to skill. The other part is understanding and enjoying the huge physical application required (both a commitment to training, and an appetite for tough tackling).

While I would think that Go Games (or something like it) most certainly has a place in the earliest stages of a child's development, it would though be detrimental to player development (and therefore to the clubs) to maintain it when they're older.

I've watched dozens upon dozens of youngsters drop away from the system in Ballyholland, not because they didn't have skill or weren't wanted, but because they just didn't have the heart for the game - and as soon as mum and dad stopped forcing them to play, they stopped.

Go Games can only add to this problem, because it will be more difficult for coaches to identify and work with those players who do have the heart, for it won't be put to the test until too late.

I'd suggest it's a fine concept for u6 and u8, to concentrate on skills and mass involvement. By u10 though, it should be side by side with real football, and phased out entirely by u12.

[Milltown Row2]

We have a lad in the club who is pushing Go Games and we have lads that aren't for it, typically there is the view of O'Neill and the view of BC1.

Now the lad pushing the Go Games is a Games development officer for a club in Armagh and the other lad is someone who was brought up with a winning team form under 10 were the training was 3 nights a week, games at the weekend trips away down south and tournaments held at the club. These players were taken to Croke Park to watch all the big games also. Some of these lads went on to win everything in hurling and football at Juvenile then an All Ireland club.

The Games development officer was not in as successful team so his views and experiences have maybe swayed his opinion on this.

I believe if a club is really serious about development of all the players, fat, skinny and cross eyed, they they should implement a strategy which will see them become competitive in the next 15 years, put all your resources best coaches and money into the under 6's, 8's and watch your return when they become senior, Cross have done it, we done it and there are other clubs doing it Cargin, Creggan.

I wish we had have had this vision when i was a young pup, we certainly had the players but with one manager who looked after under 12, 14 it was a massive commitment for him to produce results.

[stephenite]

Not having time to read through all posts, I'll mention a conversation I had with my older brother last night. He's taken up coaching his sons soccer team, they needed someone and despite no competitive or even kick about soccer playing experience at any stage in his life he stepped in (it's U-8)

I asked why the lad wasn't down at the local GAA club (really a small hurling only club in East Cork) and he says he gave it up, when I questioned him on this he told me that at the U-8 level the kids were separated into A & B teams with the B team having no coach, the A team were given tracksuits and all the trimmings including Lucozade sport at training whilst the B team were left to attempt to learn to puck about themselves and a few bottles of water left on the side of the pitch for them.

I was shocked that there was still even small GAA clubs that would treat 8 year olds young lads like this, my nephew would probably never have made it as a star of the GAA, but that was never the point of the association, was it?

[neilthemac]

Not having time to read through all posts, I'll mention a conversation I had with my older brother last night. He's taken up coaching his sons soccer team, they needed someone and despite no competitive or even kick about soccer playing experience at any stage in his life he stepped in (it's U-8)

I asked why the lad wasn't down at the local GAA club (really a small hurling only club in East Cork) and he says he gave it up, when I questioned him on this he told me that at the U-8 level the kids were separated into A & B teams with the B team having no coach, the A team were given tracksuits and all the trimmings including Lucozade sport at training whilst the B team were left to attempt to learn to puck about themselves and a few bottles of water left on the side of the pitch for them.

I was shocked that there was still even small GAA clubs that would treat 8 year olds young lads like this, my nephew would probably never have made it as a star of the GAA, but that was never the point of the association, was it?

ah sure, players are like mushrooms down in Cork...

seriously though, I wouldn't send my kid to any club who is still doing that sort of thing in 2011

[thewobbler]

Stephenite, it should be understood that the problem you brought up is not a GAA problem, but a club problem. It's as likely to happen in soccer, golf, rowing, 10 pin bowls, as it is in GAA. It's just the way some sporting clubs behave.

[stephenite]

Stephenite, it should be understood that the problem you brought up is not a GAA problem, but a club problem. It's as likely to happen in soccer, golf, rowing, 10 pin bowls, as it is in GAA. It's just the way some sporting clubs behave.

Fair point

[DownFanatic]

Im involved with my club's Under 6's, Under 8's and Under 10's. I support the Go Games ethos to an extent but I still like to mix it with a bit of old school. Im from a club which would probably term itself Intermediate/Junior. They're wouldnt be a massive GAA ethos in the parish. We are trying to instill identity and belonging in our young folk, something which the club has struggled with for years.

Following the code of Go Games conduct to the very word isn't going to help this. I want our Under 8's coming off the field after a bruising encounter with a neighbouring club one point victors rather than mincing off after a stop start, positional rotation, blow your whistle every second, borefest were the end result was the favoured 'draw'.

I keep scores for all challenge/blitz games from U6 to U10. I will make a point of telling the young boys/girls if they lost or won. I find that some of our 6 year olds get hacked off if they lose and this is most definitely a good thing in my eyes. I can't abide team mentors that patronise their kids by telling them after every game that the match was a draw. Children arent stupid.

Id be a big advocate of small sided games with similar ability children. Ive witnessed the benefits of imposing more challenging conditions on the more able children and being a bit more flexible with the weaker ones. At training differentiating between skill levels and putting children in to groups according to their talent is quite obviously the best thing to do. At matches we dont use the A/B/C team scenario. Each team is named after a townland in the parish. All three teams leave the changing rooms together, they warm up alongside each other, they drink from the same water bottles, they wear the same strips etc.

At training I still tend to work on the basics every week. Straight line drills which implement every skill. Now the new age coach probably frowns upon this but I think it works. I still throw in the odd bib tag game and the likes. Ive even stretched recently to WWE style warm ups which can be coined as 'strength' training. I feel that fun stuff like this keeps the child with the 'less passion' for the game involved and helps them become more agreeable to the ball work.

At Under 6 I think 5/6-a-side games are best, at Under 8 7/8-a-side suits best and at U-10 anything from 11/13-a-side works well. The downside of Go Games is that there are some coaches who are rigid with the application of it's tenets. Thats were the problem lies.

[JHume]

This thread got me motivated to register...

In Donegal we've been playing Go Games at U10 and U8 (such as the U8 competition is) for four or five years, and introduced it at U12 last year.

I remain to be convinced of the Go Game format at U12. It worked well at U10, but at U12 our best players see through it and they're not interested in playing in games where scores aren't kept and there are no 'winners'. They're as competitive as hell and want to win. And like some of the others on this thread, I think that's no bad thing.

Last year, our 2 best U12 players didn't play in their Go Game blitzes, and went off to training sessions for another sport instead. Interestingly, both were ever-present in our 15-a-side competitive U13 competitions.

The theory of Go Games seems, to me at least, to be well intentioned in that its objective of keeping everyone, regardless of ability, involved is a good one. But I'm worried that by tailoring our games to accommodate weaker players we're actually forgetting about the strong ones.

Prior to the U12 Go Games, we fielded A & B teams (which we called blue and gold, so as not to stigmatise the Bs) in local 15-a-side competitions. The wains on the B team didn't care about A or B - as long as they were playing at an appropriate level they were happy. And every child got a game every night - we didn't stuff the B team with a couple of strengtheners from the As.

We actually won both divisional A & B competitions in 2009, which was a fair achievement for a rural club playing in a competition with three big enough town teams. Both groups got a massive buzz out of that, and five of the 2009 Bs played with our U14 As last week.

In 2009 we had a U12 squad of 36; two years into the Go Games we're just about getting 20, with some of the best instead going to a soccer 'academy' that has arranged its U12 training for the same night as our local Gaelic football Go Games.

The Go Games may not be the only factor in the drop off, but I know it has in a couple of cases.

IF there must be U12 Go Games, then play a 15-a-side championship at the end of the season. A, B and C competitions if you have the numbers. But let the 12 year-olds get a true test of competition.

[AZOffaly]

Lads, one thing to be mindful of is that the Go Games are only one aspect of the developmental side of things, and I'm sort of in favour of what seems to be the consensus, which is that Go Games have a place, but are probably better suited to the youngest age groups - 6-8-9 kind of thing.

A common refrain is that they do not teach the skills, and this is the truth. However the Go Games in and of themselves are not necessarily about learning the skills, they are about reinforcing and demonstrating the skills.

A coach still has to teach the skills, and there are other components of the Fun Do approach (UCan Awards are a great example) that focus on the skills the kids need to learn, and the coaches need to teach. It's a good point well made that this is not some sort of creche. We are there to make the sessions fun, but they also need to be productive, and we shouldn't lose sight of that.

A year where the kids have a great time, and learn nothing, is a year wasted.