Hogan Cup Final 2011 - St Colmans College, Newry (Down) v St Jarlaths, Tuam, (Ga

[ck]

Is he upper or lower sixth?
Is he minor this year?
Is he minor next year?

Upper or lower 6th? You mean 5th or 6th year?
As far as I'm aware he is 6th year.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

The northern schools are at a severe advantage in All-Ireland schools competitions. Not only do they stay at school a year longer but they also have "catholic" grammar school system which have large catchment areas taking in many club areas, therefore pulling in all of the best players. Compare that to the scondary school system in the south, where you simply attend the nearest school to you.
Congrats to St. Colmans regardless of the aforementioned.

St.Jarlaths was a boarding school once upon a time, it leads the Hogan Cup. Its titles relied heavily on Mayomen, when it still took boarders.

[Oldhacker]

It is surprising that CK does not recognise a quintessential championship success when he sees one, and Mayogodhelpus makes the valid point that St Jarlath's won most of its Hogans with a huge catchment area across two counties. Newry is certainly a reasonable urban centre, but it is divided between the Abbey, who won a Hogan as recently as 2006, and St Colman's. It is also the case that students from the Rostrevor/Warrenpoint district, who previously largely went to St Colman's or the Abbey, now often go to St Louis while those from Attical, Kilkeel and Ballymartin entirely head in the same direction. What CK entirely misses is that the vast majority of southern schools play Gaelic games while the typical figure in the north drops below 50 cent or much lower.  There was a very tight finish at Croke Park yesterday, and the best side probably lost, but it should still be possible to recogise the achievement of St Colman's in securing back to back titles without getting a misplaced dig in.

[Jinxy]

It is surprising that CK does not recognise a quintessential championship success when he sees one, and Mayogodhelpus makes the valid point that St Jarlath's won most of its Hogans with a huge catchment area across two counties. Newry is certainly a reasonable urban centre, but it is divided between the Abbey, who won a Hogan as recently as 2006, and St Colman's. It is also the case that students from the Rostrevor/Warrenpoint district, who previously largely went to St Colman's or the Abbey, now often go to St Louis while those from Attical, Kilkeel and Ballymartin entirely head in the same direction. What CK entirely misses is that the vast majority of southern schools play Gaelic games while the typical figure in the north drops below 50 cent or much lower.  There was a very tight finish at Croke Park yesterday, and the best side probably lost, but it should still be possible to recogise the achievement of St Colman's in securing back to back titles without getting a misplaced dig in.

And?

[spuds]

It is surprising that CK does not recognise a quintessential championship success when he sees one, and Mayogodhelpus makes the valid point that St Jarlath's won most of its Hogans with a huge catchment area across two counties. Newry is certainly a reasonable urban centre, but it is divided between the Abbey, who won a Hogan as recently as 2006, and St Colman's. It is also the case that students from the Rostrevor/Warrenpoint district, who previously largely went to St Colman's or the Abbey, now often go to St Louis while those from Attical, Kilkeel and Ballymartin entirely head in the same direction. What CK entirely misses is that the vast majority of southern schools play Gaelic games while the typical figure in the north drops below 50 cent or much lower.  There was a very tight finish at Croke Park yesterday, and the best side probably lost, but it should still be possible to recogise the achievement of St Colman's in securing back to back titles without getting a misplaced dig in.

Never mind that lad ! Newry has a population of close on 30,000 with 90% of a RC background, and then add in the hinterland population and the "city" is well able to have 2 successful secondary school GAA teams. Tuam population not even 4,000 and we won't break down the demographics. 

[GalwayBayBoy]

The northern schools are at a severe advantage in All-Ireland schools competitions. Not only do they stay at school a year longer but they also have "catholic" grammar school system which have large catchment areas taking in many club areas, therefore pulling in all of the best players. Compare that to the scondary school system in the south, where you simply attend the nearest school to you.
Congrats to St. Colmans regardless of the aforementioned.

St.Jarlaths was a boarding school once upon a time, it leads the Hogan Cup. Its titles relied heavily on Mayomen, when it still took boarders.

The old Jarlath's teams always had the odd Mayo or Roscommon lad. However the vast majority of Jarlath's players were always from Galway. Mayo and Roscommon lads have played a big part in the schools's history though. Yesterday's team was all Galway apparently but Jarlath's has been a nursery for more than it's native county. You won't get a better football education anywhere.

[AZOffaly]

Not the Hogan Cup, but congratulations to Gallen C.S. from Ferbane on winning the All Ireland Vocational Schools final yesteday. They beat Cookstown from Tyrone in the semi, and Clonakilty, the holders, in the final.

Vocational Schools is a lesser standard than Colleges, but it's great to win an All Ireland, and it's great that most of the lads were Ferbane Club. Hopefully it augers well for the future and for the minor this year.

I note that two Lowrys were on the team, borthers. Sons of Mick, nephews of Brendan and Sean. (Cousins of golfer Shane). Keeping the Lowy flame lit. Well done boys.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

The northern schools are at a severe advantage in All-Ireland schools competitions. Not only do they stay at school a year longer but they also have "catholic" grammar school system which have large catchment areas taking in many club areas, therefore pulling in all of the best players. Compare that to the scondary school system in the south, where you simply attend the nearest school to you.
Congrats to St. Colmans regardless of the aforementioned.

St.Jarlaths was a boarding school once upon a time, it leads the Hogan Cup. Its titles relied heavily on Mayomen, when it still took boarders.

The old Jarlath's teams always had the odd Mayo or Roscommon lad. However the vast majority of Jarlath's players were always from Galway. Mayo and Roscommon lads have played a big part in the schools's history though. Yesterday's team was all Galway apparently but Jarlath's has been a nursery for more than it's native county. You won't get a better football education anywhere.

No intention to overplay the Mayo element. My point was that with Mayo, Roscommon and most of North Galway as potential catchment area of boarders Jarleth's had an advantage it does not have now. Lads who were good or decent at football would have been attracted to attending St.Jarleths over the years. It has to rely on the local Tuam population and at that its still a pretty good nursery of football, in the capital of Galway football. The Northern Schools would have an advantage similar to the boarding schools of the past.

On a seperate point I didn't realise that the lads up North finished older than down in the Republic, excuse my ignorance but I assumed there would be an age limit (be it being born before a certain date at the start of the season). To switch to schools rugby, Blackrocks huge advanatage is because it has the phenonomen of lads repeating leaving cert just to play rugby (these lads may have failed all or got all A, but they return never the less). The advantage of size in rugby over that year is massive, but in football it would be significant too.

[Donegal Danny]

The tradition in Jarlaths was always if you were young enough for football you repeated the leaving regardless of results. I REMEMBER THE GREAT 94 jARLATHS TEAM which won the Hogan Cup, they had about 10/11 of that team the next year and most of them were repeating the leaving. They still lost the Connaght final to their next door neighbours St Pats.

[Denn Forever]

Well done Ferbane.  Was a good game as well.  Good days football in Croke Park yesterday.

It was a joy to watch (both games) and it begs the question, why do people want to get rid of the minor grade?

Question.  Can pupils doing Transition year play on the school team?  Removes the old excuse that Ulster teams have an extra year/older players.

[FL/MAYO]

Jarlaths would have done a little bit of recruiting in their day as well, a few great players arrived in to the college for their last two years. When the boarding finished I thought that might be the end of Jarlaths football but to my surprise they have come back in great shape as a day school. The amalgamation of the two schools has brought in some good players that would have previously gone to St. Pats, I wonder how many of yesterdays team would have gone to Pats in the olden days. 

[andunabu]

Congrats to Colmans on their back to back Hogan titles.  Great credit must go to Cathal Murray and his backroom team on this fantastic achievement.  As an Abbey man, I have to take my hat off to our great rivals! Well done lads.

[NP 76]

Would like to congradulate the college on winning back to back Hogans an un believable achievement . I have to agree with Brick on Declan Mussen as i said on this thread before one of the best trainers about it takes more than running them around tullamore or around the pitches in the Colllege . If you saw any College team that declan takes they always strong as saturdays point proves the same can be said for the Mc Crory final that takes planning not any gam could do that . Team management ic a collective push with no man worth more than the other . This includes all four from the College Cathal Murray Declan Mussen Barry Kelly and Eammon Mc Evoy . Also Conor Gough thanked another great College man for his help through out the year Fr Terry Rafferty it takes them all

[Leo]

Congratulations to St Colmans, but.......
Cream of the crop?
The most error strewn colleges final I have seen for years.
Should these guys not be showing us the way forward?

[bonzo]

There was a lot of errors in 'passing' particularly the foot passing, with balls going astray. But this was more than compensated for by the other aspects of the game where there was such a high skill level. It was an honest game with none of the cynicism we find so often in county football today.

And there were two different styles of play in view. The direct attacking plan of Jarlath's was clearly their way of 'defending' against the fast movement and angled overlaps that Colman's play so well. The half back line pushed forward and pressurized Colman's into mistakes in their own half of the field. But they were composed and patient with their own game plan. Thats where they eventually won the game (with a little bit of luck too -Jarlaths were not clinical enough in taking the goal chance) and were good coaching pays off. Both sides were very fit, running all day, and knew that chances would come their way.
The Jarlaths goalie has become the easy target of a lot of criticism for the first goal that dropped over his hands. In fact, it was the goalkeeper Healy's precision kickouts (aside from some brave one on one stops)that were the springboard for all their attacks, as he cleverly was able to avoid Gough and Johnston in the middle for most of the game. It was only in the last ten minutes that Gough came to terms with where he was aiming his kicks. And that sparked the Newry revival, with supply to the front men and Mooney especially.
Overall there were far more positives on view than negatives and this was a good game of football. These two colleges definitely put in hours and hours of work. There is something to be said for tradition and we have to hand it to both of them for keeping it alive. I want to thank and congratulate two well prepared and excellent teams.
I wish every player who took to the Croke Park Pitch last Saturday, every best wish in their football careers. I look forward to seeing some of these young men gracing our fields again in county or club colours with the same skill and sportsmanship that did your heart good a few days ago.