Croke Park sets the standard for coexistence - An English Perspective

[Fiodoir Ard Mhacha]

FAM – I didn't know/remember the Jarlath link to Inverdale's 2001 pieces – thanks.

The 'mainland' tag does annoy me. I've come to terms with 'the British Isles' as a geographical expression, not a political one. At least that's how I choose to see it. "West-European Archipelago" or the like would be too cumbersome. And just like the Lions, if we tried 'British and Irish Isles', it would be shortened everywhere except in Ireland. But 'mainland' clearly denotes minor status for this island. I don't know any other example in the world where the term is used for a landmass less than at least ten times larger than the 'offshore' island.

I can say for certain that it has only come into use in recent times. Because, when I was in UCD, a generation ago, we had a lecturer who was English and a great character. One day he was introducing something discovered by Faraday, I think and mentioned that he'd been a professor at Cambridge, or wherever. Somebody in the class ventured a slag – "where's that?". He turned around and said, "it's on the mainland". It was a brilliant riposte because it was his own idea – we'd never heard the term before and we thought it was very funny and a great score for him. I never thought it would become almost standard and accepted, even by Irish people.

I knew a Cork teacher, Hardy, who, at the start of the academic year, would spend a few days stroking out the London prefix to Derry in his pupils' new atlases. I'm not sure how he got round the Brit Isles thing but I'm sure it equally annoyed him!

To my mind, nothing wrong with calling the 'other' island Britain - just as a reminder of what the Romans called it when they conquered the place!

[bottlethrower7]

Yeah, I added an 'in my opinion' to that 'duped' sentence.

[Hardy]

I know. Hence my smiley.

How did he dupe us, by the way? I hate being duped. I hate even more not understanding how I was duped, so I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.

[bottlethrower7]

You weren't duped. You knew what you were about. Many didn't though, and were let believe what they read in the papers. But I think you knew thats what I meant.

[Hardy]

So what's the solution? Another ban - no GAA members to read papers? Or wouldn't it be better for the 'no' side to mount an effective campaign? The media is part of democracy these days. Possibly the most important part. There's no point in the losing side whinging that the winners ran a better campaign (if that's what happened).

And I'd still have more time for the 'perversion of democracy' argument if its proponents had been equally vocal about McCague playing fast and loose with vote counting and people disappearing into the jacks to pervert their mandate and bags of money being put on the table by the government on the eve of a vote. I think it's a reasonable conjecture that the 'open up' decision would have come a lot EARLIER if democracy had not been perverted.

[tayto]

He was going so well till he said replace the hill! 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Inverdale's not the worst, testimony to which was his wholehearted and unprejudiced embracing of the whole Gaelic Games culture as introduced to him by Jarlath Burns some years back.

I would worry, however, about who he's being used by to push their own narrow agenda through here:

...Croke Park behind, it may be a bit like going to the local corner shop rather than Asda...something of a come-down to return in future to a much smaller venue for such a big occasion.

. 

This smacks of lobbyism, and the fact that it appears in an English journal is neither here nor there; might as well have been printed in Dublin these days for all that will see it. 

Unfortunately, the opening of Croke does indeed appear to be the thin edge of a particularly obese and much-sated wedge, but through all of this, the absolute line from which the GAA can never deviate is that NO gaelic game should have to make way in any way for a non-gaelic sport.  Compromising of the Assocation and its values must be resisted at all costs, despite the (growing) pressure from whatever angle (usual suspects here).

If the principle of primacy for gaelic games is undermined, then the soul of this organisation has truly been sold, and can never be bought back.

[lynchbhoy]

jeez hardy,
even I wouldnt be upset by the term 'mainland'
more upset by the use of 'med-cine' rather than 'med-i-cine' to be honest

as for 'saint mccague'
I disliked te wee hoor more than kelly. I may be a dinosaur, but at least I am consisten (I reckon)

[Hardy]

That amazes me! I hadn't realised there was such ready acceptance of it - especially among the GAA community. Do you not see it as patronising, big-brotherly, condescending, etc.?

It must be a generation thing - people who have grown up with it accept it. Those of us who witnessed its introduction are almost outraged by it - it feels like throwing in the towel on the whole history of our relationship with Britain, which has seen us insisting that we're equal entities.

[SammyG]

That amazes me! I hadn't realised there was such ready acceptance of it - especially among the GAA community. Do you not see it as patronising, big-brotherly, condescending, etc.?

It must be a generation thing - people who have grown up with it accept it. Those of us who witnessed its introduction are almost outraged by it - it feels like throwing in the towel on the whole history of our relationship with Britain, which has seen us insisting that we're equal entities.

Just to throw my tuppence worth in. Everybody I know (prod/taig/unionist/nationalist/whatever) would use the term mainland in everyday speech (not that it would come up that often), in the same way that everybody would use Derry (even the ones who would use Londonderry in a more 'formal' setting). I don't think it's anything to do with political affiliations or big brother syndrome, it's just shothand for the next lump of rock along from us. Most English people talk about the mainland when they mean continental Europe and I'm fairly sure they don't feel any sort of great inferiority complex.

[OirthearMhaigheo]

I don't think it's generally accepted at all Hardy, despite what appears to said on here. There is only one mainland I have ever heard people refer to and that's mainland Europe. Britain is just another Island but I've never heard of it described as the mainland, unless you're from Jersey etc.  I too would have a problem with us calling it the mainland as it's a completely inaccurate statement in modern Ireland. I'd forgive inverdale the slip though, he seems like an alright lad, and he more than balanced it with his insight and reports on the GAA.

[Billys Boots]

Most English people talk about the mainland when they mean continental Europe and I'm fairly sure they don't feel any sort of great inferiority complex.

If someone said 'mainland' to me, I'd assume it was Continental Europe to which they were referring.  In my experience, English people talking about 'the mainland' are talking about their own island, but that said, it would usually be mentioned with reference to our island.  I guess it has stemmed from reference to NI, as part of the UK.

[Hardy]

That's the whole point Sammy. Europe IS the mainland. Britain and Ireland are approximately equally islands off the mainland. For Britain to think of itself as the mainland for Ireland (and it never did until the media started to use the term) is ludicrous. It's not a political issue for me - it's national pride (or chauvinism, maybe).

As I say, I hadn't realised until today and I'm absolutely AMAZED that it has grown into acceptance in Ireland. It proves the power of the media. I'm sure those of my vintage here will agree that it's a relatively recent coinage. I remember resistance to it from Irish public people when it first started to appear. More than once I heard RTÉ people pull up Brits on it. I particularly remember John Bowman on the radio interrupting a British politician (I can't remember who) when he used the term. Bowman was almost incredulous and fulminated - "nobody in Ireland thinks of Britain as 'the mainland'".

Not true anymore it seems, sadly.

[Shamrock Shore]

I view Longford as 'the mainland' here in Dublin as in "I off down the mainland to see the parents"

or is that 'the midlands'

[Hardy]

OirthearMhaigheo, Billy - thank God - I thought I was going mad!

I think you're right, Billy - it started being used in reference to NI vs Britain. It first appeared as 'mainland Britain' as I remember. This then gradually became 'the mainland'. As I say, it's not a political issue for me, but I can't believe that an uber-chuckie like Lynchbhoy is OK with it!