Leadership community failure in the North

[johnneycool]

that's why the DUP are crying about 50/50 recruitment still in place in the PSNI, for too long, the lads just walked into cushy jobs with the RUC on a ration of 92/8, 50/50 reduces the odds too much, hence the squealing match

They weren't doing too many taigs out of a job in the RUC I would have thought.

that's my point minder, they had it handy walking straight in to the old RUC, that avenue is greatly reduced for them now and want 50/50 done away with

Any taig thinking of joining the RUC would have a lot of considering to do even before thinking that discrimination might be an issue.

[Minder]

that's why the DUP are crying about 50/50 recruitment still in place in the PSNI, for too long, the lads just walked into cushy jobs with the RUC on a ration of 92/8, 50/50 reduces the odds too much, hence the squealing match

They weren't doing too many taigs out of a job in the RUC I would have thought.

that's my point minder, they had it handy walking straight in to the old RUC, that avenue is greatly reduced for them now and want 50/50 done away with

Any taig thinking of joining the RUC would have a lot of considering to do even before thinking that discrimination might be an issue.

Like what ditch they wanted to be found in.

[gallsman]

The fact that most of the grammar schools in the north are Catholic also plays a significant role I imagine.

In Belfast alone in terms of grammar schools that many wokring class catholics would attend you have Rathmore, St. Mary's, Aquinas, St. Pat's Knock, St. Dominic's, Forthill (sp?), St. Malachy's. Anywhere else? The catholic non-grammar schools (to  my mind, I've no evidence) would also send a lot more students to Uni than their counterparts.

Very few working class protestants would attend schools like Methody, Inst etc.

[thebigfella]

It's a scientific fact that Prods have smaller brains than Taigs.

[passedit]

It's a scientific fact that Prods have smaller brains than Taigs.

their eyes are closer together n'all and they don't wash and breed like rabbits and eat their own babies.

[Olaf]

In Belfast alone in terms of grammar schools that many wokring class catholics would attend you have Rathmore, St. Mary's, Aquinas, St. Pat's Knock, St. Dominic's, Forthill (sp?), St. Malachy's. Anywhere else? The catholic non-grammar schools (to  my mind, I've no evidence) would also send a lot more students to Uni than their counterparts.

Very few working class protestants would attend schools like Methody, Inst etc.

State grammar schools also  attract all classes IMHO - in the greater Belfast area -  Inst , Wellington College, Grosvenor , Bloomfield Collegiate, Sullivan (which usually has as I understand it a faier number of Catholics in any event)) . My perception is that Methody doesn't really  and Campbell College  attracts less as it is fee paying.

[gallsman]

I don't know the school at all, but I've been told that despite Campbell's status, a donkey with a wad of cash could get in.

Sullivan would get all religions I think, but might be more middle class.

[heganboy]

I think that as a group the working class Unionist (or Loyalist) in the North will be left disenfranchised. David Ervine was a lone voice of reason and advocacy and  his passing has created a void. The UUP and DUP seem to be courting the middle class and above in their constituencies and I see that as a recipe for disaster. This report if it is designed to encourage funding to address this, I think that is a great thing. Was it Eamon in Derry that sadi this was never a religious dispute but always a class dispute?

[Eamonnca1]

You can see it all in the quality of the Newsletter. It used to be a decent paper.   

When was that?

[Maguire01]

Seafoid I'm afraid the "brain drain" is a myth probably designed to explain away some of these problems or to account for the rising demographic of nationalists in further and higher education. In short there is no evidence to suggest that proportionally more Protestants than Catholics ever left for university elsewhere.

What about this?
http://www.equalityni.org/archive/pdf/EducMigratFinalReportECNI090608.pdf

[Ulick]

That is blocked for me, what does it say?

[Maguire01]

Just two quotes from the Executive Summary:

Previous research has demonstrated that those with a Protestant community background comprise a disproportionate amount of those leaving NI to study in Great Britain (GB). In 2005/06, 29% of NI domiciled under-graduate students migrated to GB to study, with the proportion of Protestants to Roman Catholics leaving NI being around 1.5 to 1. So 34% of Protestants leave compared to 23% of Roman Catholics and 49% of 'Others' (DENI School Leavers Survey 2005/6).

The total numbers of school leavers from Protestant and Roman Catholic communities leaving to study in GB are broadly similar, but proportionately many more Protestants out-migrate.

[Milltown Row2]

Just two quotes from the Executive Summary:

Previous research has demonstrated that those with a Protestant community background comprise a disproportionate amount of those leaving NI to study in Great Britain (GB). In 2005/06, 29% of NI domiciled under-graduate students migrated to GB to study, with the proportion of Protestants to Roman Catholics leaving NI being around 1.5 to 1. So 34% of Protestants leave compared to 23% of Roman Catholics and 49% of 'Others' (DENI School Leavers Survey 2005/6).

The total numbers of school leavers from Protestant and Roman Catholic communities leaving to study in GB are broadly similar, but proportionately many more Protestants out-migrate.

Obviously written by a prod!! propaganda and a myth for sure

[MasterShake]

Yes, but the same report goes on to say:

"Following graduation, most students in the UK tend to remain in the region
of their HE institution.  For NI domiciled students, regardless of university
attended, 81% are located  in NI six months following graduation.  While
care must be taken for consistency of data, HESA data indicate that 29%
of NI domiciled undergraduate students are in GB, while six months after
graduation some 19% are in GB; this  suggests that a net 10% of NI
domiciles return to NI following graduation.

ˆHowever, further research is  needed to determine the community
background of these graduates and the relative rates of return migration
for each community. Should the return rate for each community be the
same, then overall, educational out-migration and return would have a
disproportionate effect on the Protestant community, potentially reducing
the number of Protestants available for graduate jobs."

[Maguire01]

Yes, but the same report goes on to say:

"Following graduation, most students in the UK tend to remain in the region
of their HE institution.  For NI domiciled students, regardless of university
attended, 81% are located  in NI six months following graduation.  While
care must be taken for consistency of data, HESA data indicate that 29%
of NI domiciled undergraduate students are in GB, while six months after
graduation some 19% are in GB; this  suggests that a net 10% of NI
domiciles return to NI following graduation.

ˆHowever, further research is  needed to determine the community
background of these graduates and the relative rates of return migration
for each community. Should the return rate for each community be the
same, then overall, educational out-migration and return would have a
disproportionate effect on the Protestant community, potentially reducing
the number of Protestants available for graduate jobs."

But of those returning, there would have to be significantly higher proportion of Protestants than Catholics within that 10% to reverse the initial outward migration trend.