French military jets over Libya

[theskull1]

You're not confused in any way with the UK governments flip flopping on Gadaffi EG?

One minute he was a despot, next he was OK to the point that institutions were able to accept his donations and for his currecy to be printed in the UK, then all of a sudden he's straight back to a despot. Taking the goings on in Syria, Yemen & Bahrain, I find it difficult to undeerstand why Gaddaffi alone is being isolated and all the others are given the free run to quash whatever dissent exists.

We are being fed a media message which doesn't tell the full truth IMO

[Evil Genius]

You're not confused in any way with the UK governments flip flopping on Gadaffi EG?

One minute he was a despot, next he was OK to the point that institutions were able to accept his donations and for his currecy to be printed in the UK, then all of a sudden he's straight back to a despot.

The (claimed) justification for Blair's earlier rapprochement  with Gadafi was that it persuaded the latter to renounce Weapons of Mass Destruction:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3335965.stm
I'm not entirely sure I buy this, but it nonetheless seems inevitable that had the West continued to shun Libya, Gadafi would still have found some other "rogue state" willing to get round sanctions and sell him WMD in exchange for Libyan oil etc. At which prospect, his African neighbours were at least as concerned as the West, as evidenced by the African Union's support for NATO's initial action against him.

Of course, there was clearly no way of persuading Gadafi to divest himself of the conventional  weapons which he is now turning on the insurgents, but consider this. Had the West indicated that it would not intervene when Gadafi's regime was threatened, and he had still had WMD, do you think he would have hesitated to use eg Chemical Weapons in Benghazi or Misrata? Of course not.

And what would people have said then, had we still been his "new best friend"?

Taking the goings on in Syria, Yemen & Bahrain, I find it difficult to undeerstand why Gaddaffi alone is being isolated and all the others are given the free run to quash whatever dissent exists.

With Libya, there is a reasonable chance that Western intervention will bring about a "better" outcome for all concerned than if the West had stood idly by. Whereas I'd guess the firm concensus amongst Western nations/NATO was that military intervention in Syria or Yemen would only have made things worse, much worse, for all concerned.

As for Bahrain, whilst the US Fifth Fleet is based there, there is no chance of the West intervening militarily, or even opposing the Saudi intervention in support of the regime. But do not believe that that will always be the case:
"... sources said the administration of President Barack Obama appeared to be preparing for the collapse of the Sunni kingdom in Bahrain. They said Washington does not intend to protect the regime of King Hamad Bin Issa Al Khalifa.
'The Americans have written off Bahrain and are believed to be working out some arrangement with the Iranians that will protect the Americans from the mobs,' the source said."
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/wtarc/2011/ss_military0291_03_16.asp

We are being fed a media message which doesn't tell the full truth IMO

No doubt.
Then again, it was ever thus in matters of realpolitik.

Anyhow, as GK Chesterton used to say, "If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing badly!"

[orangeman]

NATO making eejits of themelves - do they use lads out of the TA or what ?


Nato has admitted "a weapons systems failure" may have led to civilian casualties in Sunday morning's air strike in the Libyan capital, Tripoli.

In a statement, the alliance said the intended target of the strike was a military missile site, but "it appears that one weapon" did not hit it.

The Libyan government earlier said Nato bombed a residential area, killing nine civilians, including babies.

Nato is enforcing a UN resolution to defend Libyans from pro-Gaddafi forces.

"Nato regrets the loss of innocent civilian lives and takes great care in conducting strikes against a regime determined to use violence against its own citizens," said Lt Gen Charles Bouchard, commander of operation Unified Protector.


"Although we are still determining the specifics of this event, indications are that a weapons system failure may have caused this incident," he added.

The statement said that more than 11,500 sorties had already been conducted and "every mission is planned and executed with tremendous care to avoid civilian casualties".

[orangeman]

Italy draws back in the face of more amateurish war mongering by Nato :

Italy urges Nato to suspend hostilities
Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini has called on Nato to suspend hostilities in Libya to allow humanitarian aid to be brought to the war-torn country.

Mr Frattini said Nato should provide data on results of its bombing campaign and guidelines on targeting errors.

Arab League Chairman Amr Moussa made a similar call on Tuesday, voicing reservations about the Nato campaign.

On Sunday a Nato missile apparently misfired striking a residential area.

The Libyan government said nine people including two young children were killed in the strike.

The alliance acknowledged that civilian casualties may have resulted from it.

Meanwhile Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi described Libya's opposition National Transitional Council as an "important dialogue partner" and an "important domestic political force".

Rebel leader Mahmoud Jibril has been holding talks with the Chinese leadership in Beijing.

[orangeman]

Mission accomplished !!


The price of oil is on its way down and BP are ready to go back into Libya along with all the others.


Good work NATO. Take a well deserved bow.

[thejuice]

Libya under Gaddafi:
Largest oil & gas reserves in Africa.
Supplying only 2% of the market.
National debt zero.


Keep your eye on those figures.

Humanitarian of course.


Wonder will NATO nip across to Kenya, Somalia and Ethiopia to continue their humanitarian work there?

[orangeman]

Where next for NATO ? Syria maybe or do they not have the balls for it ?

[Declan]

Where next for NATO ? Syria maybe or do they not have the balls for it ?

Is there any oil in dem thar hills though?

[orangeman]

Well done - pats on the back all round - but are the libyan people any better off today than they were 6 months ago and is the price of petrol, diesel, home heating oil going up or coming down ?


Mr Hammond said: "This is a job well done and we will be sending our crews home from tonight. I have given my personal thanks today to some of the aircrew and support personnel at Gioia del Colle."

At its peak, the UK had 2,300 personnel, 32 aircraft and four ships committed to the campaign in Libya at a cost of £160m.

The UK has flown more than 3,000 sorties, more than 2,100 of which were strike sorties, successfully striking around 640 targets[/i]

[orangeman]

NATO and the West are not afraid of any challenge, right So we can expect them to respond with full force here to this challenge ??

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has warned of an "earthquake" if the West intervenes in his country.

In a rare interview with the UK's Sunday Telegraph newspaper, Mr Assad said involvement risked transforming Syria into "another Afghanistan".

His comments came after the UN secretary-general made a new call for the repression to end.

At least 50 civilians and members of the security forces were killed on Saturday, according to the two sides.

Activists said 21 civilians were killed and that army tanks had shelled a historic district in the city of Homs.

The government said 20 soldiers had been killed in Homs, and 10 members of the security forces killed during an ambush of their bus in Idlib province.

More than 3,000 people have died in the unrest since protests calling for the government of Mr Assad to step down broke out in March.

In the Sunday Telegraph interview, Mr Assad said Western countries "are going to ratchet up the pressure, definitely".

"Syria is the hub now in this region. It is the faultline, and if you play with the ground you will cause an earthquake," he said, .

"Any problem in Syria will burn the whole region. If the plan is to divide Syria, that is to divide the whole region.


Tens of thousands rallied in Damascus on Wednesday in support of President Assad "Do you want to see another Afghanistan, or tens of Afghanistans?"

President Assad admitted that "many mistakes" had been made by his security forces in the early part of the uprising, but the paper said he insisted that "only terrorists" were now being targeted.

He said he had responded differently to the Arab Spring than other, deposed Arab leaders.

"We didn't go down the road of stubborn government," he said. "Six days after (the protests began), I commenced reform.

Mr Assad described the uprising as a "struggle between Islamism and pan-Arabism.

[Main Street]

Well done - pats on the back all round - but are the libyan people any better off today than they were 6 months ago

You appear to have opinions on what is best for the Libyan people, What do you think, how does the prospect of life now for the Libyan people fare to 6 months ago, when the suppression of civil protests happened in feb 2011?

At its peak, the UK had 2,300 personnel, 32 aircraft and four ships committed to the campaign in Libya at a cost of £160m.
The UK has flown more than 3,000 sorties, more than 2,100 of which were strike sorties, successfully striking around 640 targets[/i]

Do you measure the negative aspects of war in money terms?
I think that represents a spectacularly good deal for the Libyan Transitional Council.
They can easily pay back the entire cost (us$2bn - 3bn) of the NATO mercenaries force with  1% or 2% of the funds Gaddafi squirreled away in foreign banks (latest estimate $200bn). Where else could they have got such a highly trained strike force which could made mince out of Gaddafi's army and not have to place foot on Libyan soil?

What's the human cost to the Libyan nation?
30- 50,000 deaths? add to that injuries and all the resulting physical and emotional trauma of a civil war.
But perhaps you can do some research and find out with reasonable accuracy just what the Libyan people think about their future prospects and their opinions about the cost of the civil war - whether it be human or economic.

[orangeman]

Do you really think that this "intervention" was all about making things better for the libyan people ?.

[Clinker]

Mr Hammond said: "This is a job well done".

The UK has flown more than 3,000 sorties, more than 2,100 of which were strike sorties, successfully striking around 640 targets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAKMSNhMARY

[Íseal agus crua isteach a]

I hate the American,British,French,Israeli, Nato and every other ruling class bastard that wipes out these innocent people. Clinker those type of videos are real life and you will never see them on western news. Is their anything worse than to see children suffer in tolerably? Hell won't be full till these murdering bastards are in it.

http://youtu.be/aJURNC0e6Ek

[orangeman]

So just a few years ago the Brits were flying all over the world, rendering suspects back to Libya and Colonel Gadaffi in order to maintain Gadaffi's "security" but not long after, they blew the shit out of Gadaffi himself. Some hypocrisy there - I suppose they'd tell us that it's a different time and circumstances are altogether different etc etc.

That's like a scene from Northern Ireland !.