French military jets over Libya

[lawnseed]

Just make sure you've enough oil for the chain of your bicycle.

things change juice, by your post i think your suggesting that we cant do without oil, i saying that we have no choice. what makes you think that any of the super powers currently hovvering over libya's oil wells are gonna share the dwindling puddle of oil with ireland. if the country is to prosper we must break our dependancy on oil. imo it is the prime objective of any irish government once that is achieved we are no longer beholding to any foreign state/oil co/bank.
i live in an area where 12000 people were in full time employment in factories where they didnt have oil nor electric surely we can match 200 year old technology

[orangeman]

Libya being bombed tonight again by the Brits whilst the Americans say that really they haven't much if anything to do with the direct military action and are handing over control of the military action to the Brits and the French. The americans also say that they don't want to target Gadaffi nor do they want to displace him.


Cute hoors.

Gadaffi is lining his people up outside bomobed schools, hospitals and other public buildings to show the outside world how the UN / NATO are being unreasonable.

[Eamonnca1]

1:  WTF has the conflict in Libya to do with the UK?  Have they yet to cop on that their days of empire building are over?

The Brits and the Gaddafi regime have a bit of history. Funding the Provos, shooting of WPC Yvonne Fletcher and the Libyan embassy siege, Pan Am 103, etc.  The regime has been a pain in the neck and despite the recent thaw there's no sign that the fella is actually sane or thinks rationally. So the UK does have a dog in this fight.

2: Why are UK PM's among the first to come out to say we are sending in the planes, troops etc?  I never hear of the PM's of Finland, Denmark, or the Chancellor of Germany saying the same thing.  But then again, they are pretty much financially stable countries ... I wonder is there a link between not fighting wars in other people's countries and domestic economic conditions?

See above. Plus, the other countries you mention don't have the same military muscle that France and the UK has. Germany has a well oiled military machine but they're very reluctant to use it for reasons which should be fairly obvious.  Plus, Obama seems to be holding back here and it's a rare opportunity for Sarkozy and Cameron to get a bit of international limelight as defenders of freedom without having to get the yanks to do all the heavy lifting. And since it's principally an air campaign it doesn't carry the same risks as a ground assault, which would be very unpopular at home.  This is a relatively low-risk operation with a potentially big payoff if it works.

And are you really suggesting that the UK is any worse off financially than just about anybody else in Western Europe at the minute?

3: Is Libya not an internal dispute for power?  Should they not be left to sort it out on their own without the UK and French jostling for position over oil rights?

In an ideal world, yes. But the wrong* side is winning. There's a sense of the early 1990s brewing here, like when the iron curtain came down. If the west can be seen to be taking the side of the oppressed people of the Arab world then maybe, just maybe, the fundamentalists over there will hold the west in higher esteem.

Since the government has air superiority and is using it to push the rebels back, enforcing a no-fly zone would be just enough to tip the balance in the rebels' favour. If they win, then a democracy emerges in Libya which is grateful to France and the UK. Wouldn't it be better to have an oil-rich country on Europe's back door with a friendly government rather than an unpredictable and unpopular dictatorship propped up by western interests?

*What? "Who are we to decide who the wrong side is" you say?  If it's a choice between a popular revolt and an unelected mentally unstable dictator with a history of backing terrorism then it should be an easy choice to make.

4:  Why are the UK and France not chomping at the bit to get into Saudi Arabia at present?  Is it because they know it's a fight they can never win ...

"Getting in?" Who said anything about "getting in?" There's the small matter of geography for one thing.  Libya is closer to Europe than Saudi and the Brits and French don't have to mount an expensive and logistically tricky long distance mission there. But if a decent strength popular uprising emerges in Saudi Arabia that isn't dominated by Islamic fundamentalists, then it's a good bet that the west would be only too happy to give it a gentle nudge in the right direction too. It's not like they actually think the "sons of bitches but they're our sons of bitches" approach is the ideal setup.

[Pangurban]

Now that the former imperialist powers have found a conscience and a desire to protect human rights, can we expect to see them moving against Bahrain,Yemen and Saudi, as well as enforcing a no fly zone over Gaza to protect innocent civilians

[Eamonnca1]

Now that the former imperialist powers have found a conscience and a desire to protect human rights, can we expect to see them moving against Bahrain,Yemen and Saudi, as well as enforcing a no fly zone over Gaza to protect innocent civilians

Ah, the old "you shouldn't topple one dictator if you aren't going to topple every single one of them in the world" fallacy. 

How do you propose they "move against" the Saudi royal family without turning the entire Arab world against them? Some muslims are a bit touchy about western military forces in what they see as holy land you know.

[Tyrones own]

Cute hoors. Gadaffi is lining his people up outside bomobed schools, hospitals and other public buildings to show the outside world how the UN / NATO are being unreasonable.

A commonly used tactic by victimized Arab regimes that I've highlighted
on numerous occasions here...you sound surprised 

[Declan]

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/libya-says-may-give-oil-deals-to-china-india/146528-2.html

Oh and this had nothing to do with the UN resolution either

[thejuice]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bp-to-start-drilling-off-libyan-coast-2035002.html

BP to start drilling off Libyan coast


Oil giant's shock revelation is the latest twist in a tale of politics, pollution, terrorism – and violent death

By Brian Brady and Susie Mesure

The tortuous saga of BP, the Gulf of Mexico, the Lockerbie bombing and an America which feels itself badly wronged took another turn yesterday when it emerged that the oil company is about to start drilling at an even greater depth in, of all places, Libyan waters.

And, as that information was being absorbed, there came an announcement that Jack Straw, the former justice secretary, had declined an invitation to attend the upcoming US Senate hearing into possible links between BP and the release last August of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, who was convicted of the murder of 259 passengers on Pan Am Flight 103, and 11 Lockerbie residents. Megrahi, who was diagnosed with cancer, was put on a plane back to Tripoli after doctors said he had only three months to live.

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee is investigating allegations that the release, officially on compassionate grounds, was ordered in return for economic co-operation, including access to oil and gas fields. Tony Blair, former prime minister and "friend of Gaddafi", has also become embroiled in the affair.

[johnneycool]

Now that the former imperialist powers have found a conscience and a desire to protect human rights, can we expect to see them moving against Bahrain,Yemen and Saudi, as well as enforcing a no fly zone over Gaza to protect innocent civilians

Ah, the old "you shouldn't topple one dictator if you aren't going to topple every single one of them in the world" fallacy. 

How do you propose they "move against" the Saudi royal family without turning the entire Arab world against them? Some muslims are a bit touchy about western military forces in what they see as holy land you know.

well to be fair, you need to have a bit of consistency when dealing with these dictators and who's to say a 'move against' the saudi royal family would even turn the Saudi population against them, let alone the Arab world?

How do you judge how popular a dictator is within their own country?

[omagh_gael]

Now that the former imperialist powers have found a conscience and a desire to protect human rights, can we expect to see them moving against Bahrain,Yemen and Saudi, as well as enforcing a no fly zone over Gaza to protect innocent civilians

Ah, the old "you shouldn't topple one dictator if you aren't going to topple every single one of them in the world" fallacy. 

How do you propose they "move against" the Saudi royal family without turning the entire Arab world against them? Some muslims are a bit touchy about western military forces in what they see as holy
land you know.

well to be fair, you need to have a bit of consistency when dealing with these dictators and who's to say a 'move against' the saudi royal family would even turn the Saudi population against them, let alone the Arab world?

How do you judge how popular a dictator is within their own country?

Easy. Count how many of his posters are getting battered by the locals shoes!

[johnneycool]

Now that the former imperialist powers have found a conscience and a desire to protect human rights, can we expect to see them moving against Bahrain,Yemen and Saudi, as well as enforcing a no fly zone over Gaza to protect innocent civilians

Ah, the old "you shouldn't topple one dictator if you aren't going to topple every single one of them in the world" fallacy. 

How do you propose they "move against" the Saudi royal family without turning the entire Arab world against them? Some muslims are a bit touchy about western military forces in what they see as holy
land you know.

well to be fair, you need to have a bit of consistency when dealing with these dictators and who's to say a 'move against' the saudi royal family would even turn the Saudi population against them, let alone the Arab world?

How do you judge how popular a dictator is within their own country?

Easy. Count how many of his posters are getting battered by the least amount if shoes!

But what if you don't have any shoes?

[omagh_gael]

Ah well, in that case you'd call an election were every man and woman could exercise their democratic right to support or oppose their respective dictator.

[seafoid]

It is a pity France never had the balls to enforce a no fly zone over Gaza.

[winsamsoon]

It is a pity France never had the balls to enforce a no fly zone over Gaza.

I suspect our little yankie friends would have had an objection on behalf of Israel.

[orangeman]

Why are the Anericans being so coy about their involvement whilst the Brits and the French are stivking their chests out and mouthing away ?

This in spite of out of the 124 missiles fired so far, 122 of them were American missiles.