Question for southerners

[AZOffaly]

Bur sure there are differences between people of all parts of the island, largely the basis for our stereotypes. I don't think anyone is saying there's no differences. Sure everyone knows dubs are dubs, Cork are arrogant, Kerry are 'cute', the Midlands are 'the poor mouth' and Cavan is mean, pronounced 'mane'.

True, but all other things been equal there are differences because of partition. How could there not be?

I think we're in violent agreement. Of course circumstances mean that different differences exist. I already said that I think the nordie debating technique is different to the Mexican one because of the circumstances up there.

But I think there are differences all around the country for various reasons, which is strange in a small country like this when you think of it.

[Kerry Mike]

Seamus Darby was and will remain the only thorn in our side no matter what those from Tyrone think. Losing to Armagh, Tyrone, Down and others was a bit romantic at the time and its nice to be part of their history in a sad kind of way, the first time we lost anyway, gets a bit annoying after a few times but yerra them northies are great craic.

Anyway back to my counting....... 34, 35, 36 and finally 37,, ahhhh the great memories of all those great victories always eases the pain of a few minor losses along the way

[Hound]

My experience on this board is that the terms "Mexican" and "free-stater" are used as derogatory terms. But sometimes the offender will back away completely when called on it and pretend otherwise. The Mexican jibe is generally done in a humourous context though and I dont think any of us would get offended by it, regardless of the intention.

"Nordies" is a term I would use to describe a group of people from the 6 counties, but wouldnt use it to describe people from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan. So that must mean its a partionist word, but its not something I'd use that often. I certainly would never choose to say "X is from the North" rather than "X is from Tyrone".

[Poc me]

I may be wrong but i think you'll find that the northerner stigma existed before partition. People in the rest of the country seen a difference between themeselves and the unionists in the north east of Ulster and unfortunately characterised the rest of the bunch along with them as northerners from the 'black north'. I've actually come across people who have asked me if i'm a Protestant simply because i'm from the 'north'. People will have examples of this at some time in their lives but you can't really generalise the whole population of the 26 as having this viewpoint simply because of an interaction(s) you may have had with a handful of people.

There are things that i have experienced though that do annoy me. Like I have had people say i'm from Northern Ireland rather than Derry. Severely annoying! But again i've had more people simply say i'm from Derry so i don't generalise everyone or at elast try not to, but unfirtunately people do tend to remember things that annoyed them.

There does appear to be some sort of snobbery in the media and among politicians (I think Martin was the biggest culprit to be honest) in some circles with 'Gerry coming down here telling us what to do'. One thing that irks me as well in newspapers is journalists trying to avoid using the term 'Northern Ireland', but replacing it with the term 'the North@, surely the capitalisation of the 'n' means that you are giving it the same proper noun status. I mean do they invulde Donegal? Would the people who use the term 'nordie' (a term which i used to hate but now would be pretty apathetic towards) for someone from Donegal? I mean i know loads of people from Donegal who sound almost exactly like me and unless you asked them where they were from you wouldn't know they weren't from the 6.

As someone said, partition has created a difference. Many people in the 6 have picked up anglicised habits that many probably wouldn't think about, such as listening to BBC Radio 1 or watching British TV and reading British media papers. Small things but they do undoubtedly contribute to an anglicising of the 6.

Just for the record, I love every inch of Ireland, I've been everywhere and wouldn't let anyone call me any less Irish than someone from Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Mayo, etc. etc. But individuals will try, i still generally feel that a referendum would come up with a yes for a 32 county Ireland because most people in the 26 do still have that desire...although sometimes they may be apathetic towards it. I think that a referendum might rekindle there feelings.

[liihb]

Quote from: liihb on Today at 11:26:37 AM

I would consider Nordies Irish, but yet I'm not sure I want a united Ireland, if only for selfish fiscal reasons alone. From a all Southerners hate Northerners, I think apathy is a better word, and from playing against Northern teams, and playing football against Nordies in New York, I would have felt way more hated by them, than any feeling I would have


Maybe it's cos you called them nordies and told them that while it was OK for people to die for your freedom, it wasn't OK for those nordies to have freedom as it cost you a wee bob or two?!

Haha, fair point, but I was way too outnumbered to be doing too much abuse! I certainly didn't start anything!

[Nally Stand]

Well put Poc. As far as the "nordie" word goes...I still hate it with a passion and can't see that ever changing!! I have never heard of anyone from Donegal called a nordie and as such it is in my eyes at least, a term for partitionists.

Another little instance I always remember is my little cousin from Dublin who was in Belfast for the first time and remarked that it was the first time he'd been in a foreign city. He was very young at the time and clearly this was a line that had been given to him by a teacher/parent/someone who should know better.

[Hound]

Well put Poc. As far as the "nordie" word goes...I still hate it with a passion and can't see that ever changing!! I have never heard of anyone from Donegal called a nordie and as such it is in my eyes at least, a term for partitionists.

Nally, partition exists, therefore partitonist language exists.
Is that not just inevitable?

And just because somebody uses partitionist language doesn't mean they like or agree with partition.

[Nally Stand]

Well put Poc. As far as the "nordie" word goes...I still hate it with a passion and can't see that ever changing!! I have never heard of anyone from Donegal called a nordie and as such it is in my eyes at least, a term for partitionists.

Nally, partition exists, therefore partitonist language exists.
Is that not just inevitable?

And just because somebody uses partitionist language doesn't mean they like or agree with partition.

Hound, There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Is that too not inevitable? Should we then accept it's everyday use?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

[Hound]

Well put Poc. As far as the "nordie" word goes...I still hate it with a passion and can't see that ever changing!! I have never heard of anyone from Donegal called a nordie and as such it is in my eyes at least, a term for partitionists.

Nally, partition exists, therefore partitonist language exists.
Is that not just inevitable?

And just because somebody uses partitionist language doesn't mean they like or agree with partition.

Hound, There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Is that too not inevitable? Should we then accept it's everyday use?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

But you earn sterling, spend sterling, pay tax or collect welfare to/from the Queen. That's all partitionist and no more partionist than someone saying County Tyrone is in Northern Ireland. Its just the way it is.

[Hardy]

You real Nordies think you have it bad. Try imagining what it's like to be accused of being from "The North" when you're as Mexican as Speedy Gonzales. That happens regularly down here in Langerland.

Do you have a northern accent? Anyone familiar with Tramore will know of Cunninghams chipper. Old Mrs Cunningham was from Meath and to the ignorant southern ear she could have come from anywhere between the Inishowen peninsula and Strangford Lough

I suppose I have a Meath accent, though not as pronounced as it would have been when I was growing up there. I'd say I sound more like Seán Boylan than Graham Geraghty. But, to Cork people, anything north of Tipperary sounds like a northern accent. 

It's just the way it works. I was a good while in Limerick before I could distinguish that accent from Cork. Even still, I'd struggle to distinguish between Cork and Kerry accents, which must seem outlandish to langers and cutehoors.

Funnily, I've been able for a long time to recognise the Waterford accent. I think it goes back to Seán Kelly and the way he'd say "teeuw stages".

[Canalman]

Personally think that an unnoticed by most situation over the last years has helped the cause of Irish unity along. In the "boom times" (for want of a better term) there was a heap of northern protestants working here in Dublin on the buildings. They seemed to warm to the place big time and so my theory goes told their contemporaries up North that "down South" wasn't the hellhole as portrayed. No doubt they would have noticed the almost absolute rule here that Politics is not to be mentioned in pubs or in social situations. Might be a small step but imo a significant one.

Have sadly heard some "nationalists" telling me they got "UK" passports because they were cheaper than the Irish one. Baffling.

Also some from the North cannot understand why the normal day to day grind/issues of life down here seems to preoccupy us more than the situation up North. Never heard them bemoaning the problems we have had here and still have, yet squeal away like brats when ambivalence is all they got form us.

Btw, anyone who uses the term "Freestater" is NOT a republican or nationalist.

[Nally Stand]

Well put Poc. As far as the "nordie" word goes...I still hate it with a passion and can't see that ever changing!! I have never heard of anyone from Donegal called a nordie and as such it is in my eyes at least, a term for partitionists.

Nally, partition exists, therefore partitonist language exists.
Is that not just inevitable?

And just because somebody uses partitionist language doesn't mean they like or agree with partition.

Hound, There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Is that too not inevitable? Should we then accept it's everyday use?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

But you earn sterling, spend sterling, pay tax or collect welfare to/from the Queen. That's all partitionist and no more partionist than someone saying County Tyrone is in Northern Ireland. Its just the way it is.

Circumstances have conspired in such a way that my county of Ireland is under british occupation. Despite the fact that I regard myself as being every bit as Irish as you or anyone else on this board, I am partitionist?  I bet your grandparents regarded themselves as Irish and not British? Were they wrong then? If britian laid claim to your townland in the morning and claimed it as a territory of her majestys, would you insist on being called British "because thats they way it is" or would you get a bit miffed if people from your neighbouring townland began calling you a brit?

Oh you still didn't answer my questions from the last post. You say we should live with partitionist language "because partition exists". So I ask again.....

There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Should we then accept the everyday use of racist language?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

[An Gaeilgoir]

Well put Poc. As far as the "nordie" word goes...I still hate it with a passion and can't see that ever changing!! I have never heard of anyone from Donegal called a nordie and as such it is in my eyes at least, a term for partitionists.

Nally, partition exists, therefore partitonist language exists.
Is that not just inevitable?

And just because somebody uses partitionist language doesn't mean they like or agree with partition.

Hound, There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Is that too not inevitable? Should we then accept it's everyday use?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

But you earn sterling, spend sterling, pay tax or collect welfare to/from the Queen. That's all partitionist and no more partionist than someone saying County Tyrone is in Northern Ireland. Its just the way it is.

Circumstances have conspired in such a way that my county of Ireland is under british occupation. Despite the fact that I regard myself as being every bit as Irish as you or anyone else on this board, I am partitionist?  I bet your grandparents regarded themselves as Irish and not British? Were they wrong then? If britian laid claim to your townland in the morning and claimed it as a territory of her majestys, would you insist on being called British "because thats they way it is" or would you get a bit miffed if people from your neighbouring townland began calling you a brit?

Oh you still didn't answer my questions from the last post. You say we should live with partitionist language "because partition exists". So I ask again.....

There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Should we then accept the everyday use of racist language?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

Nobody doubts that you are anything but Irish, i dont think i would ever class anyone in the six counties as British. What gets me each and everytime though is the notion(some of my friends from the six counties included) they have to continually "prove" their Irishness, even when its not in doubt. I have constantly heard and read that Sinn Fein want to be an all-country party, while i disagree with all their policies, good luck to them on this, but please stop trooping out the tricolour for each and every opening of an envelope- having watched the election counts each time a Sinn Fein member was elected the tricolour was hauled out and wrapped around the new TD (Back to proving the more Irish than Irish mentality- even thought these people are already from the South). Images like this only reinforce the perceived and maybe established views of people of the south towards Northern politics and politicans.

One final point, can the "free-state" shit be left at the gate when it comes to football matches, every game involving a 6 counties team and a Southern team, its free state ref, free state this, that and the other. However i have never heard a northern Ireland referee/ linesman been called "Nordie" in any match between two southern teams.

My personal opinion on the end of partion, it wont happen anytime soon, especially now with the Republic broke and the large number of the NI workforce employed in the civil service in the UK. It all comes down to money at the end of the day.

Sorry about the long post.

[LeoMc]

Well put Poc. As far as the "nordie" word goes...I still hate it with a passion and can't see that ever changing!! I have never heard of anyone from Donegal called a nordie and as such it is in my eyes at least, a term for partitionists.

Nally, partition exists, therefore partitonist language exists.
Is that not just inevitable?

And just because somebody uses partitionist language doesn't mean they like or agree with partition.

Hound, There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Is that too not inevitable? Should we then accept it's everyday use?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

But you earn sterling, spend sterling, pay tax or collect welfare to/from the Queen. That's all partitionist and no more partionist than someone saying County Tyrone is in Northern Ireland. Its just the way it is.

Circumstances have conspired in such a way that my county of Ireland is under british occupation. Despite the fact that I regard myself as being every bit as Irish as you or anyone else on this board, I am partitionist?  I bet your grandparents regarded themselves as Irish and not British? Were they wrong then? If britian laid claim to your townland in the morning and claimed it as a territory of her majestys, would you insist on being called British "because thats they way it is" or would you get a bit miffed if people from your neighbouring townland began calling you a brit?

Oh you still didn't answer my questions from the last post. You say we should live with partitionist language "because partition exists". So I ask again.....

There are different races in the world. Therefor there is racist langauge in existence. Should we then accept the everyday use of racist language?
Why not have the courage of your convictions and refuse to use language which contradicits your stated principles? If you don't believe in partition, why use partitionist language?

wtf is that statement about?
Acknowledging partition exists does not require people on the wrong side of it to call themselves Brits the last time I checked.

[Nally Stand]

One final point, can the "free-state" shit be left at the gate when it comes to football matches, every game involving a 6 counties team and a Southern team, its free state ref, free state this, that and the other. However i have never heard a northern Ireland referee/ linesman been called "Nordie" in any match between two southern teams.

You make it sound like it's a one way thing. After the Tyrone/Dublin game last year, walking up the road after leaving the Cusack and meeting the Dubs flowing from the Hill, we were met with thousands of Dubs shouting to the Tyrone supporters walking amongst them to "fcuk off back to britain" and even one or two particularly brain dead individuals who were telling us to "fcuk off back to England" of all places. In a colleges game in Carlow a few years back, I remember hearing a player being told (by a linesman) that he was a "nordie bastard" and the same player saying that he never since played in a game where as much abuse was received along such lines.