Turning a team with a history of failure around

[seafoid]

I saw this about the England cricketers and though there must be something in it for Galway and Waterford hurlers and Mayo fuballers as well as other counties deserving of success after years of heartbreak, last minute goals, bewilderment  and self hatred. 

English cricket spent 20 years in the shadow of of one of the greatest ever cricket teams which was sprinkled with the names of some ni bheidh a leitheid aris ann legends and they had an OLD Meath capacity to get out of jail from impossible situations (they never would have accepted a rugby try to win for example).  England lost the Ashes 8 times in a row between 1989 and 2005 . They couldn't bat their way out of a wet paper bag.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/dec/29/the-ashes-2010-why-england-retained-urn

The coach and the captain
Resource
Selection
Local knowledge
Preparation
Skills
Strategy
Character

[mannix]

 In kerry the players believe they will win, in mayo we hope we will win.Simple as that.
They are Man u, we are west ham.

[johnneycool]

In kerry the players believe they will win, in mayo we hope we will win.Simple as that.
They are Man u, we are west ham.

That about sums it up.

I once met and auld fella from Galway on the Templemore road in Thurles on our way to a Munster final in the late 90's, Clare were at the height of their powers and were up against an up and coming Cork team, we'd the usual conversations about who would win and we'd all gone for Clare but he said a very true thing, Cork like Tipp and Kilkenny expect to win whereas he said Clare would hope to win. Galway were the same he said.
Cork did win that day, but IMO it was down to Ollie Baker picking up an ankle injury, but the history books will show Cork as the winners.

[Kerry Mike]

In kerry the players believe they will win, in mayo we hope we will win.Simple as that.
They are Man u, we are west ham.

I wish it was so simple. Belief is just one cog in any success, there's so many other things.

Having a good structured club setup is I believe our foundation and not just senior club, Our Juniors and Intermediates have thrived in the recent All Ireland club series for example.  Our Senior county Championship gives every player exposure to top level football either through the club or divisional setup which is used as a feeder system for county team, but that is only the start.

You need a talented and dedicated pool of players and need to replenish that year on year which we have failed to do many times over our history, which will come in particular from U21 and the top clubs and from minors to a lesser extent, as success rarely comes in 1 year but then it is very hard to change a successful team when you do get there, sin sceal eile.

Tradition is huge in Kerry and every young lad wants to wear the green and gold but only the best and most dedicated make the most of that opportunity, but everyone gets that chance at least once. And then with a sniff of success no one wants to just play for the county or even to have only 1 All Ireland, the more you have the further up the legends ladder you go in Kerry, and that social ranking is very important in some players minds, you play to win and then success drives success.

But Tradition will win you feck all on its own and can actually drag teams and players down with its associated pressures, you need a management setup in the county that will drive that success. You need a County board that would burn its mother and sell its children to fund and support your success.

You need luck: in draws, injuries and referees decisions and so many other factors jaysus I could go on and on

[Jinxy]

In kerry the players believe they will win, in mayo we hope we will win.Simple as that.
They are Man u, we are west ham.

Why would you do otherwise?
It's easy to believe you'll win if you're a 20 year old Kerry footballer coming onto a team loaded with All-Ireland medals.
It's easy to believe you'll win when you've grown up watching your county playing (and usually winning) in Croke Park in September almost every year.
Winning the first All-Ireland is the key, no matter how you do it.
Mayo probably would have won in 96 if they played football instead of starting rows.
Then who knows what would have happened?
They might even have retained the title the next year as they would have had much more confidence in themselves.
Don't think people were overly impressed with Kerry in 97 (we would have won it if we weren't decimated with injuries and Martin Lynch related suspensions for the Leinster final) but they were still All Ireland champions.
If Mayo had won even one of those All-Irelands, THEN they would be able to travel to Croke Park in September with belief in themselves and their ability, instead of always being the team that have to shoulder the responsibility for ending the drought.
96 and 97 were the missed opportunities.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I saw this about the England cricketers and though there must be something in it for Galway and Waterford hurlers and Mayo fuballers as well as other counties deserving of success after years of heartbreak, last minute goals, bewilderment  and self hatred. 

English cricket spent 20 years in the shadow of of one of the greatest ever cricket teams which was sprinkled with the names of some ni bheidh a leitheid aris ann legends and they had an OLD Meath capacity to get out of jail from impossible situations (they never would have accepted a rugby try to win for example).  England lost the Ashes 8 times in a row between 1989 and 2005 . They couldn't bat their way out of a wet paper bag.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/dec/29/the-ashes-2010-why-england-retained-urn

The coach and the captain
Resource
Selection
Local knowledge
Preparation
Skills
Strategy
Character

They forgot to mention in that list poaching players from other countries.

Kevin Pietersen and Jonathan Trott being South African. Andrew Strauss also South African but at least he moved to England when he was younger. Ditto Matt Prior. Eoin Morgan is Irish. Not in the test team yet but a mainstay of the one-day team.

Main reason why they are beating Australia though is because the Aussies just have a very average if not downright mediocre team right now.

[mannix]

you hit the nail on the head  Jinxy.
Mayo will be competitive again very soon with this new man in control, winning in 96/97 would have been great but thats years ago. The best thing Mayo can do now is forget the past and train hard at being better than everyone including kerry in future.
Galway and waterford hurlers will need to do the same.

[GalwayBayBoy]

you hit the nail on the head  Jinxy.
Mayo will be competitive again very soon with this new man in control, winning in 96/97 would have been great but thats years ago. The best thing Mayo can do now is forget the past and train hard at being better than everyone including kerry in future.
Galway and waterford hurlers will need to do the same.

If the Galway hurlers can't beat Kerry then we really are banjaxed.

[mannix]

ya might be banjaxxed anyway

[GalwayBayBoy]

ya might be banjaxxed anyway

Good one.

[ross4life]

As Mike said in Kerry and every young lad wants to wear the green and gold it's a religion there a different breed from the rest. Brazil in Soccer are similar

For the others it's about youth development Tyrone would be the best example of recent years

[Maiden1]

I saw this about the England cricketers and though there must be something in it for Galway and Waterford hurlers and Mayo fuballers as well as other counties deserving of success after years of heartbreak, last minute goals, bewilderment  and self hatred. 

English cricket spent 20 years in the shadow of of one of the greatest ever cricket teams which was sprinkled with the names of some ni bheidh a leitheid aris ann legends and they had an OLD Meath capacity to get out of jail from impossible situations (they never would have accepted a rugby try to win for example).  England lost the Ashes 8 times in a row between 1989 and 2005 . They couldn't bat their way out of a wet paper bag.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/dec/29/the-ashes-2010-why-england-retained-urn

The coach and the captain
Resource
Selection
Local knowledge
Preparation
Skills
Strategy
Character

They forgot to mention in that list poaching players from other countries.

Kevin Pietersen and Jonathan Trott being South African. Andrew Strauss also South African but at least he moved to England when he was younger. Ditto Matt Prior. Eoin Morgan is Irish. Not in the test team yet but a mainstay of the one-day team.

Main reason why they are beating Australia though is because the Aussies just have a very average if not downright mediocre team right now.

Exactly.  The main reason they are beating Australia is McGrath, Warne, Waugh brothers etc. have retired.

I was in Austalia about 1999 and the English press where all going on about there tactics and strategy being wrong but the simple fact was the top 5 batsmen in Australia all had career averages of 50 and over and England did not have 1 player averaging 50.  They also had Warne and McGrath taking a wicket on average every 20 runs.  The best tactician in the world would have struggled to find a way for England to win.  Superior skill defeats all theory.  Australia have just arrived at the point where all great teams get to where when they get rid of the old guard it takes a while to get a new team.

[magpie seanie]

In kerry the players believe they will win, in mayo we hope we will win.Simple as that.
They are Man u, we are west ham.

I wish it was so simple. Belief is just one cog in any success, there's so many other things.

Having a good structured club setup is I believe our foundation and not just senior club, Our Juniors and Intermediates have thrived in the recent All Ireland club series for example.  Our Senior county Championship gives every player exposure to top level football either through the club or divisional setup which is used as a feeder system for county team, but that is only the start.

You need a talented and dedicated pool of players and need to replenish that year on year which we have failed to do many times over our history, which will come in particular from U21 and the top clubs and from minors to a lesser extent, as success rarely comes in 1 year but then it is very hard to change a successful team when you do get there, sin sceal eile.

Tradition is huge in Kerry and every young lad wants to wear the green and gold but only the best and most dedicated make the most of that opportunity, but everyone gets that chance at least once. And then with a sniff of success no one wants to just play for the county or even to have only 1 All Ireland, the more you have the further up the legends ladder you go in Kerry, and that social ranking is very important in some players minds, you play to win and then success drives success.

But Tradition will win you feck all on its own and can actually drag teams and players down with its associated pressures, you need a management setup in the county that will drive that success. You need a County board that would burn its mother and sell its children to fund and support your success.

You need luck: in draws, injuries and referees decisions and so many other factors jaysus I could go on and on

I firmly believe that but its amazing how many people think it has nothing to do with intercounty success. One time at a county board meeting we were discussing underage structures and I mentioned how they ran things in Kerry and how every player got a chance to test himself against the best at the grade. The next reply will stay with me forever - "well we're not Kerry"

[Rossfan]

Seanie, a similar comment from a one time Co Board official in Ros when a new coaching bofficer was talking about his aim to be to have an underage set up like Tyrone..." Ya can't expect us to match the likes of them".
Hopefully we've moved on from that