Are NI Water Fit for Purpose?

[Tony Baloney]

]

PPP was a disaster here where it was used for schools and we will pay for it for the next 25 years.

In what way?

I know a girl who taught in a PPP school and she said she'd never seen so many vending machines in a school in her life.

Was Balmoral High School a PPP initiative? It ended well.

[FermGael]

]

PPP was a disaster here where it was used for schools and we will pay for it for the next 25 years.

In what way?

I know a girl who taught in a PPP school and she said she'd never seen so many vending machines in a school in her life.

Was Balmoral High School a PPP initiative? It ended well.

Yes it was but that school was built for political reasons as most know.

I work in a PPP school and it has went well.
Know quite a few others who teach in them and they have few complaints.
You will find with the drying up of government funds, it will probably be the only way that a school can secure a new building in the future.

[ONeill]

Dodgy interactive map

[Tony Baloney]

For those who work in PPP school buildings the experience is currently good but wait until the maintenance issues begin to kick in the fabric begins to get scruffy.  In most schools, this can be quickly and relatively cheaply remedied.  In PPP builds the structure is built to a minimum standard to allow it to last just 25 years, the heat, light and maintenance costs are top sliced from the school budget and they are controlled by a legally binding agreement which has little or no variation.  Those running the school must operate within the agreement.  In a large institution that I know about, the PPP company had specified in the agreement that the temperature of the building would never fall below a certain temperature which for weekends and nights was relatively high.  This meant that the amount of heating and cooling in the building was minimal and easy on the fabric.  However, the cost of the heating was carried by the institution.  Nothing could be done to lower the cost without changing the commercial agreement which required compensation to the PPP company and large amount to the lawyers.  If you want simple changes to the building the cost from the owners far outweighs the actually cost.  A large PPP school in West Belfast found that it had a stage in the assembly hall with no doors to exit to the rear during productions.  As this was essential to the school a doorway was asked to be cut to allow the stage exit.  The cost ran into thousands for a job that at most would have been cover by one thousand.  You cannot make simple additions to the fabric without permission of the owners, such as an extra noticeboard or a lick of paint to freshen up an area of the school.  I could go on.  None of these initially impact on the staff in these institutions but eventually as the educational cuts begin to bite the top slice of the budget going to the PPP company will remain constant or more likely increase with inflation while the allocation to the school does not match either inflation or even the incremental salary rises of staff (since there won't be a pay rise for two years).  This can only result in job losses as schools cannot make savings in any other area because these areas are covered by the PPP company who are well insulated by their commercial agreement for 25 years!

I thought you had!

[tbrick18]

I would be opposed to privatising the Water providor here for a number of reasons - most have already been mentioned.
It wouldnt guarantee any improvement, it would line the pockets of privateers at the expense of the public but mainly IMO water is a fundamental right that we shouldnt have to pay for over and above our domestic rates.
I dont see the point of metering all private households as I cant see that there would be huge differences in the water usage of each house.
I think NI Water should remain, but it needs restructured and re-organised. It should be given a budget (taken from the rates fees) and be given a set of targets it needs to meet every year. Part of those targets should be an upgrade of the system, but should also include detailed plans on how to manage the existing system during the course of the upgrade. Over time as more of the system is upgraded, less time and money would need to be spent on the existing system.
First priority for NI Water though should be that all outages must be repaired within certain time frames. How they do this should be taken into account as part of the restructure I believe the company need.

[orangeman]

How long will it take to privatise NI Water ?

The Northern Ireland Secretary of State has warned there could be major changes in how the NI water supply is financed.

Owen Paterson said Northern Ireland's infrastructure had suffered over the years and that changes were now needed.

[bennydorano]

The structures are already in place, there was a fairly comprhensive transition/restructuring from fully public sector to a GOCO, the terms and conditions of staff who transferred to the new GOCO still broadly mirror civil servants AFAIK, new staff's would be fairly pants I'd imagine.   All that's required is the political will (excuse) so it's coming post-assembly elections in all likelihood.  If and when it does come I sincerely hope we retain the GOCO model, complete privitisation will be good for noone except shareholders (and the Government I suppose who'll be hoping to get thousands of staff of their payroll/pensions contributions etc...)  There's more financial pain ahead no matter what.

What is the situation down south?  Privatised, Council run, centrally run???

[The Real Laoislad]

I have a barrel full of rain water out the back if any of ye want it.

[Hoof Hearted]

Any of yous going to the New Year Party at NI Water ? If so, bring a bottle !!

[oakleafgael]

The structures are already in place, there was a fairly comprhensive transition/restructuring from fully public sector to a GOCO, the terms and conditions of staff who transferred to the new GOCO still broadly mirror civil servants AFAIK, new staff's would be fairly pants I'd imagine.   All that's required is the political will (excuse) so it's coming post-assembly elections in all likelihood.  If and when it does come I sincerely hope we retain the GOCO model, complete privitisation will be good for noone except shareholders (and the Government I suppose who'll be hoping to get thousands of staff of their payroll/pensions contributions etc...)  There's more financial pain ahead no matter what.

What is the situation down south?  Privatised, Council run, centrally run???

Conor Murphy has already put the wheels in motion to make NIW a full public sector body again. This will waste hundreds of millions to satisfy his political ideals. NIW has been rudderless for years. Whn it was a public sector body there was no accountability and the waste was shocking. Since moving to GOCO there has been massive improvements, whih wouldnt have been hard. They now have excellent frameworks in place for repair and installations of networks which are excellent value for money.

The people in the north dont realise how lucky they are in comparison to the south. There the water networks are run by the county councils which is madness. Every county council has the same staff with massive unnecessary duplication. Parish pump politics is rife with spending often allocated to areas where it is not needed for electoral reason. The GWS's are still having to orgainise to try and get large rural areas a potable water supply with many still drinking untreated water for springs etc.

[oakleafgael]

Privatising a monopolised (and fundamental) utility is asking for trouble, as is leaving it totally within the realm of the public sector domain.

Perhaps something like a Public Private Partnership (PPP) might be the best way forward, despite the awful hames of those the southern 'government' has made over the last two decades where they were basically licences to print money. That would mean that there would be private sector enterprise and expertise for a finite financial return (over 30 years or such), but where the utility would remain in public ownership.

There has been a few PPP schemes used by NIW. They are a disaster for some of the reasons TYP has outlined. The groups providing the schemes have used the bare minimum spec wise, NIW's fault for that, and the running costs have been very high.

[oakleafgael]

NIW have been saying that everyone will be back on the network by early next week. There isnt a hope of that happening. It will be at least another 2 weeks before the repairs are carried out. The majority will have water again net week but the pressures will be a problem for weeks with some area being turned off at night etc. People may not notice the outages at night but thats the reality of the situation.

[ONeill]

Burst pipes and bad weather prompt school closure fears


The water crisis and the prospect of a second bout of icy weather have prompted fears that schools across Northern Ireland may not open as scheduled next week.

Education Minster Caitriona Ruane said school buildings had been damaged.

"Problems include lack of mains water supply, burst pipes, broken toilets and damaged ceilings," she said.

She said her department was working to ensure schools could open as soon as possible.

"My officials have been in contact with the schools' managing authorities to ensure all affected schools are operational as soon as possible," she said.

"As we are expecting colder weather to return it is important that schools take adequate precautions to protect their buildings from further damage."

The Department of Education will be advised by NI Water on Sunday 2 January about where interruptions to mains water supply may impact on schools.

On Monday 3 January, Education and Library Boards will tell the department which schools will not open as scheduled.

The boards will communicate directly with the vast majority of schools.

However, schools in the voluntary grammar and grant maintained integrated sectors who have a direct link with Deni in relation to capital and maintenance issues are asked to telephone: 028 9127 9480, 028 9127 9481 and 028 9127 9473 on Monday between 0900 GMT and 1200 GMT

[bennydorano]

The structures are already in place, there was a fairly comprhensive transition/restructuring from fully public sector to a GOCO, the terms and conditions of staff who transferred to the new GOCO still broadly mirror civil servants AFAIK, new staff's would be fairly pants I'd imagine.   All that's required is the political will (excuse) so it's coming post-assembly elections in all likelihood.  If and when it does come I sincerely hope we retain the GOCO model, complete privitisation will be good for noone except shareholders (and the Government I suppose who'll be hoping to get thousands of staff of their payroll/pensions contributions etc...)  There's more financial pain ahead no matter what.

What is the situation down south?  Privatised, Council run, centrally run???

Conor Murphy has already put the wheels in motion to make NIW a full public sector body again. This will waste hundreds of millions to satisfy his political ideals. NIW has been rudderless for years. Whn it was a public sector body there was no accountability and the waste was shocking. Since moving to GOCO there has been massive improvements, whih wouldnt have been hard. They now have excellent frameworks in place for repair and installations of networks which are excellent value for money.

The people in the north dont realise how lucky they are in comparison to the south. There the water networks are run by the county councils which is madness. Every county council has the same staff with massive unnecessary duplication. Parish pump politics is rife with spending often allocated to areas where it is not needed for electoral reason. The GWS's are still having to orgainise to try and get large rural areas a potable water supply with many still drinking untreated water for springs etc.

Surely Murphy would have to get such an exercise trough the assembly? Hard to  see right-wing Unionists giving it the necessary cross-community support. We might also see SF/DUP giving that portfolio a by-ball after the next assembly elections as it has proved very troublesome.

[tyroneboi]

Vandals dump 22,000l of water as families struggle

Vandals have opened valves on bowsers in County Tyrone and emptied out nearly 5,000 gallons (22,730 litres) of water.

About 2,000 homes in the area are still without a running water supply. NI Water filled the bowsers at Gortgonis Park, Coalisland on Friday for the weekend.

But during the night, vandals opened the valves and let the water run out.

It happened as NI Water revealed that 4,000 homes in Northern Ireland were still without supplies.

The worst affected areas are Cookstown, Warrenpoint, Burren and Hannahstown.

Northern Ireland's water crisis began before Christmas as a thaw in severe icy weather led to thousands of burst pipes at homes and businesses.

As a result, some people were left without water for nearly two weeks.

On Saturday, NI Water said that about 12,000 people in the Belfast area whose water was being turned on and off on a rotational basis should now have water.

Supplies may be rotated later in the evening.

As well as repairing the supply network, NI water says its staff are also inspecting private property for leaks. It is urging business owners and landlords to repair any burst pipes as a matter of urgency.

The company plans to refill the Coalisland bowsers later on Saturday.

Francie Molloy, who is MLA for the area, condemned those responsible for opening the valves.

"People thought that because this service was being provided that people would respect it and just can't believe that someone would be so callous as to actually open valves and just let that water flow away," he said.
'Vital water'

"Strangers didn't come in to do this, it was local people and it's the local people that are actually being deprived of vital water."

NI Water has issued a list of places in Belfast where water supplies should be restored by 1200 GMT on Saturday. They are in BT5, BT6 and BT18.

These include Lawnmount Street, Ravenhill Street, Ravenhill Avenue, Castlereagh Place, Hollycroft Road, Willowfield, Castlereagh, Ardenlee Avenue, east Belfast and Depot Road, Holywood.

NI Water interim chairman Padraic White has said he hoped there would be a gradual improvement in the coming days as reservoir levels rise.